Rich Warren & Joel Osteen preach the Daniel Diet!

[Sieben]

The growth hormone is injected to make them fatter.

Check this out:

Growth Hormones in Animals - YouTube

If you are going to eat meat, go organic. Of course, it is much more expensive to do that. And it still isn't healthier than being a vegetarian. But ultimately, the choice is yours. I don't condemn anyone for eating meat.

idk the differences from having growth hormone injected vs your body producing mass amounts of it. I know that if you fast for 24 hours your body is in a glucagon metabolized state and has a lot of growth hormone released as well. But it actually removes fat and builds muscle. So what is the difference that they are using on animals? Is it only making them fatter? I don't know if it's particularly unhealthy to eat growth hormone, being injected, or having your body produce it on its own. Unless someone wants to show me the negative side effects of growth hormone anyway

 

[God's Word]

But I'm not making the connection that God commanded His people not to eat unclean things for symbolical purposes. Keep in mind that even before Leviticus 11 came to be, Noah was commanded to take only two of each unclean beast/animal onto the ark. This suggests that even then it wasn't permissible by God to eat these things. Of course, they were also called "unclean" back then, too (see Gen. 7:2).

cesty:

Genesis 7:2-3

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of the earth."

Yes, there were seven of each clean beast and only two of each unclean beast, but why were there more clean than unclean? There's no need to guess, for we read:

Genesis 8:20

"And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar."

It certainly seems that God instructed Noah to bring more clean beasts/fowls than unclean ones simply because they were later going to be sacrificed. Also, whereas you say that "this suggests that even then it wasn't permissible by God to eat these things", I'll remind you that NO BEASTS, whether clean or unclean, were eaten until AFTER the flood.

Genesis 9:1-3

"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you SHALL BE UPON EVERY BEAST OF THE EARTH, AND UPON EVERY FOWL OF THE AIR, UPON ALL THAT MOVETH UPON THE EARTH, AND UPON ALL THE FISHES OF THE SEA; into your hand are they delivered. EVERY MOVING THING THAT LIVETH SHALL BE MEAT FOR YOU; even as the green herb HAVE I GIVEN YOU ALL THINGS."

"EVERY BEAST OF THE EARTH..."

"EVERY FOWL OF THE AIR..."

"ALL THAT MOVETH UPON THE EARTH..."

"ALL THE FISHES OF THE SEA..."

"EVERY MOVING THING THAT LIVETH SHALL BE MEAT FOR YOU..."

"I HAVE GIVEN YOU ALL THINGS..."

Am I missing something? Where is your "suggested" food restriction? I simply don't see it.

 

[TruthWave7]

People who preach about "The Daniel Diet" crack me up. Have they never read the text? Daniel doesn't lose weight on this forced diet. He gained weight.

The whole point of the text was that, rather than wasting away, like Nebuchadnezzar planned, God blessed them and prospered him because of his refusal to eat the pagan food.

Daniel didn't become obese, his refusal to eat the unclean meats served by Babylonians gave his countenance color and radiated health. How would he had obtained such a close connection with God if he abused his health. Daniel obeyed the divine laws of health and he and his cohorts were blessed with spiritual discernment and robust physical health. Proof positive evidence is that Daniel lived to an ancient age for his time, about 100 years. Note, the article link below:

Daniel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TruthWave7]

It would do us all well to follow such a diet. That which the Bible deems to be "unclean" is very unhealthy, and should not be consumed.

By the way, I used to eat chicken and turkey until I watched a video on how they manufacture meat. I was so repulsed by this process that I vowed not to eat that stuff again (unless I absolutely had to in order to survive).

The next thing I need to do is get rid of the pizza. Although, that is going to be very difficult. As I am getting older, I'm realizing more and more that I need to give up certain foods. Of course, I could always eat cheese in moderation. The problem, however, is that I have great difficulty doing that.

Thanks for your insightful post. North Americans have been duped by the Meat and Diary industry.

 

[TruthWave7]

Nearly two thousand years ago, the Apostle Paul penned the following:

I Timothy 4:1-6

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained."

ACCORDING TO SPIRIT LED PAUL (IOW, don't anybody bother accusing me of "flaming"...I'm merely repeating what he said), there are two different camps on this issue:

1. Lying, hypocritical, conscience seared, spiritually seduced, demonic doctrine teachers who have departed from the faith and tell us to abstain from meats.

2. Good ministers of Jesus Christ who believe and know the truth and who are nourished up in the words of faith and good doctrine who put the brethren in remembrance that EVERY CREATURE of God is good and NOTHING to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

As for me, I'll stick with those who are part of the latter group and be one myself.

The key text that explodes this issue is this text taken from the above quote: "which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

The OT dietary laws define the truth as to what is clean and unclean to eat.

 

[cesty]

It depends where you go for meat. Trader Joes had 96% lean meat for $5 lb.

My wife recently told me that they made an ordinance here, where you are now allowed to have up to two chickens/turkeys in your backyard. She told me the person who informed her of this has them, along with all her neighbors. I thought that was rather amusing. Could you imagine how noisy that neighborhood must be!

By the way, even if I were to eat chicken, I couldn't imagine having chickens in my backyard without treating them like pets. It's just not going to happen.

 

[TruthWave7]

who cares about osteen, he thinks you can have whatever postive confession brings. All he ever talks about is getting rich, and he thinks the angel stuck Zec quiet in Luke, so that Zec could not make a "negative confession", whereby thwarting the whole plan of salvation.

tell that texan to tell his texas church, they are sinning if they eat pork bbq, and watch how fast his tithe income would fall.

Did you not see that Rich Warren another mega church Pastor in California has seen that SDA were right? He has promoted on Dr. Oz's TV program the Daniel Diet!! Which SDAs have been promoting for over 100 years! Osteen and Warren have "seen the light", why don't you open your eyes, and walk in the light for better health?

 

[TruthWave7]

My wife recently told me that they made an ordinance here, where you are now allowed to have up to two chickens/turkeys in your backyard. She told me the person who informed her of this has them, along with all her neighbors. I thought that was rather amusing. Could you imagine how noisy that neighborhood must be!

By the way, even if I were to eat chicken, I couldn't imagine having chickens in my backyard without treating them like pets. It's just not going to happen.

You could become a Vegan, and keep the chickens as pets.

 

[God's Word]

Thanks for your insightful post. North Americans have been duped by the Meat and Diary industry.

TruthWave7:

Tell me/us, were JESUS CHRIST and ABRAHAM "duped by the meat and dairy industry", too?

Genesis 18:1-8

"And THE LORD APPEARED UNTO HIM in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, MY LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. AND ABRAHAM RAN UNTO THE HERD, AND FETCHED A CALF TENDER AND GOOD, AND GAVE IT UNTO A YOUNG MAN; AND HE HASTED TO DRESS IT. AND HE TOOK BUTTER, AND MILK, AND THE CALF WHICH HE HAD DRESSED, AND SET IT BEFORE THEM; AND HE STOOD BY THEM UNDER THE TREE, AND THEY DID EAT."

Abraham served THE LORD and what certainly appears to be TWO ANGELS (if we keep reading) A CALF WITH BUTTER AND MILK AND THEY DID EAT.

Just for the record.

 

[God's Word]

The key text that explodes this issue is this text taken from the above quote: "which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

The OT dietary laws define the truth as to what is clean and unclean to eat.

TruthWave7:

You're kidding, right? No, the passage itself tells us what is clean and that is "EVERY CREATURE OF GOD" and "NOTHING TO BE REFUSED".

Once again, just for the record.

 

[TruthWave7]

Threads like this make me want to go off and have a bacon sandwich.

None of my questions to Truthwave and other SDAs, from the other threads, have been answered, so he starts another one!

ALL the big Christian evangelists, writers, Pastors - even the President of the Methodist Conference - could say that abstaining from pork is a good idea for health reasons. JESUS did not say it or demand it of his Gentile followers, and none of you have produced a Scripture to the contrary. End of.

Now, where are those sausage rolls?

I have answered your questions, yet you refuse see the truth! Jesus by his example of keeping the OT dietary laws his whole life on Earth as a God/Man. Jesus nor his disciples were ever accused of eating unclean meats by the Pharisees. Looking back further in biblical history, when the children of Israel left Egypt, at least a few thousand Egyptian went along with them into the wilderness, those Egyptians who obeyed the dietary laws were blessed as well the Jews, and vice versa. The dietary laws apply to all human beings, Jew and Gentile alike, if you obey you are blessed, if you disobey your suffer the consequences. Common sense.

 

[TruthWave7]

TruthWave7:

Tell me/us, were JESUS CHRIST and ABRAHAM "duped by the meat and dairy industry", too?

Genesis 18:1-8

"And THE LORD APPEARED UNTO HIM in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, MY LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. AND ABRAHAM RAN UNTO THE HERD, AND FETCHED A CALF TENDER AND GOOD, AND GAVE IT UNTO A YOUNG MAN; AND HE HASTED TO DRESS IT. AND HE TOOK BUTTER, AND MILK, AND THE CALF WHICH HE HAD DRESSED, AND SET IT BEFORE THEM; AND HE STOOD BY THEM UNDER THE TREE, AND THEY DID EAT."

Abraham served THE LORD and what certainly appears to be TWO ANGELS (if we keep reading) A CALF WITH BUTTER AND MILK AND THEY DID EAT.

Just for the record.

I was referring to the way the modern meat and dairy industry pump up animals with hormones and other chemicals to make more $$$$$, while causing medical problems to the clueless populace.

 

[God's Word]

I was referring to the way the modern meat and dairy industry pump up animals with hormones and other chemicals to make more $$$$$, while causing medical problems to the clueless populace.

TruthWave7:

Just so you know, my wife, children and I do "go organic" as much as possible.

 

[rockytopva]

Lakewood - Joel Osteen... The Perfect Worship Service (1 of 2)! - YouTube

Lakewood - Joel Osteen... The Perfect Worship Service (2 of 2)! - YouTube

 

[Strong in Him]

I have answered your questions,

No you haven't. I have asked several times for a Bible verse or passage in which Jesus commanded future Gentile followers and converts to obey all of the food laws that had nbeen given to the Jews - and you haven't provided one.

Additionally, these are all the things I asked you in the other thread;

If you can;
a) show me Biblical evidence that Jesus came to change the Old Covenant,
b) show me where he said that everything I do, or don't do, before my death constitutes those changes
c) explain to me why Hebrews says that a will is null and void after the death of the testator but God made ALL the Covenants and he is alive. Jesus died but God raised him again and now he is alive and will never die.
d) show me a verse or passage where Jesus said that Gentile Christians had to continue to obey the Jewish law and not eat pork,
e) explain why the apostles didn't make Gentiles obey the whole Jewish law in order to be saved, and Peter himself had a vision of unclean animals and was told not to call unclean anything which God had sanctified,
f) tell us a bit about how you keep the WHOLE of the Jewish law - not wearing mixed fibres, for example, or touching anyone who bleeds or is dead. If you are trying to say that Christians have to keep the law (though there is no evidence for it), then that means the WHOLE law, not just the one bit of it that you have singled out.

If you can answer all these points, with Scripture; then we may have the basis for a reasoned discussion. And if ou can, and can support your claim that ANY protestant theologian "worth his salt" agrees with your teaching then I may be able to see, and admit, that my teaching is wrong.
To be honest with you, I'm not holding my breath though.

you have not answered this either.

yet you refuse see the truth!

Sorry but SDA truth and Bible truth are not the same on this.

Jesus by his example of keeping the OT dietary laws his whole life on Earth as a God/Man.

Jesus was a Jew, brought up as a Jew and kept Jewish law. That does not amount to a command to his Gentile followers to do the same.

Jesus nor his disciples were ever accused of eating unclean meats by the Pharisees.

They kept the Jewish food laws while Jeus was still on earth. Gentiles need to do this - why? It has nothing to do with salvation.

Looking back further in biblical history, when the children of Israel left Egypt, at least a few thousand Egyptian went along with them into the wilderness, those Egyptians who obeyed the dietary laws were blessed as well the Jews, and vice versa.

If they did, then they were most likely prepared to accept the God of the Jews and keep his laws.

That is not the same as Christians who believe in the Lord Jesus for salvation and are forgiven and made holy and righteous by him alone having to keep the JEWISH food laws.

The dietary laws apply to all human beings, Jew and Gentile alike,

Then you should have no trouble finding a NT verse which tells me that.

if you obey you are blessed, if you disobey your suffer the consequences. Common sense.

Blessed - how? And what are the consequences?
Long life? Not necessarily. I had several friends, all younger than me and who all almost certainly ate more healthily than me, who have died young.
Salvation? Not on your nellie! Jesus saves, not the pig.
We come to the Father through Jesus (John 14:6), who said that NOTHING which goes into a person's mouth makes him unclean. (And yes, I know what you are going to say to that, but you're not reading Mark 7 correctly.)
We are saved only through the name of Jesus (Acts 4:12)
Jesus makes us right with God, we are reconciled to God through him. (Rom 5:1-8)

No one is saved by what they eat. In OT times they were told not to eat "unclean" food in order to be pure and show their holiness and dedication to God.
Jesus makes us pure and holy.
They were forgiven for their sins because of the animal sacrifices they made in obedience to the law; it was the blood of the animals which was acceptable to God and purified them from their sin, NOT the food they ate. Salvation and forgiveness of sin was NEVER about food.
Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29). We are forgiven and purified through HIS blood.

Common sense.

Not Scripture though.

 

[from scratch]

A few years ago mega church Pastor Joel Osteen preached his blockbuster sermon in Houston, TX regarding what the Bible says about unclean meats, breaking ranks with 99% of the Evangelical, Catholic, and Protestant churches of North America, by basically saying in his sermon that the Old Covenant dietary laws are still valid in the New Covenant.


Link to Joel Osteen's sermon on unclean meats.

Joel Osteen teaches Christians about PORK! - YouTube


This year, another well known mega church pastor Rick Warren, is now preaching a similar message to what Joel Osteen preached, based on the OT prophet Daniel's request to shun unclean meats while in Babylon, as recorded in the OT book of Daniel, chapter 1. Rick calls it the Daniel Plan. Note link below.

The Daniel Plan - Eat

This issue is putting Evangelicals in a difficult and confusing position as 99% of Evangelicals have been told by their pastors for many decades that those laws were nailed to the cross, and are irrelevant to NC Christians. As an SDA, I feel our church is being vindicated, after being derided for over a hundred years now, by Evangelicals, Catholics, and Protestants churches for teaching that the dietary laws were not ceremonial and transitory in nature, but were given by God for the spiritual, mental, and physical health of mankind.

Daniel 1:1-21

1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with some of the articles of the house of God, which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the articles into the treasure house of his god.
3 Then the king instructed Ashpenaz, the master of his eunuchs, to bring some of the children of Israel and some of the king’s descendants and some of the nobles, 4 young men in whom there was no blemish, but good-looking, gifted in all wisdom, possessing knowledge and quick to understand, who had ability to serve in the king’s palace, and whom they might teach the language and literature of the Chaldeans. 5 And the king appointed for them a daily provision of the king’s delicacies and of the wine which he drank, and three years of training for them, so that at the end of that time they might serve before the king. 6 Now from among those of the sons of Judah were Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. 7 To them the chief of the eunuchs gave names: he gave Daniel the name Belteshazzar; to Hananiah, Shadrach; to Mishael, Meshach; and to Azariah, Abed-Nego.
8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king’s delicacies, nor with the wine which he drank; therefore he requested of the chief of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself. 9 Now God had brought Daniel into the favor and goodwill of the chief of the eunuchs. 10 And the chief of the eunuchs said to Daniel, “I fear my lord the king, who has appointed your food and drink. For why should he see your faces looking worse than the young men who are your age? Then you would endanger my head before the king.”
11 So Daniel said to the steward[a] whom the chief of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah,
12 "Please test your servants for ten days, and let them give us vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then let our appearance be examined before you, and the appearance of the young men who eat the portion of the king’s delicacies; and as you see fit, so deal with your servants.” 14 So he consented with them in this matter, and tested them ten days.
15 And at the end of ten days their features appeared better and fatter in flesh than all the young men who ate the portion of the king’s delicacies. 16 Thus the steward took away their portion of delicacies and the wine that they were to drink, and gave them vegetables.
17 As for these four young men, God gave them knowledge and skill in all literature and wisdom; and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.
18 Now at the end of the days, when the king had said that they should be brought in, the chief of the eunuchs brought them in before Nebuchadnezzar. 19 Then the king interviewed[b] them, and among them all none was found like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah; therefore they served before the king. 20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding about which the king examined them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers who were in all his realm." 21

So did they become members of your church or something. I glad for you that you see some similarities. It is very interesting that you seem to think they are preaching SDA teaching. Merely incidental just like saying someone keeps the law because they don'n't commit adultery.

 

[cesty]

cesty:

Genesis 7:2-3

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of the earth."

Yes, there were seven of each clean beast and only two of each unclean beast, but why were there more clean than unclean? There's no need to guess, for we read:

Genesis 8:20

"And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar."

It certainly seems that God instructed Noah to bring more clean beasts/fowls than unclean ones simply because they were later going to be sacrificed. Also, whereas you say that "this suggests that even then it wasn't permissible by God to eat these things", I'll remind you that NO BEASTS, whether clean or unclean, were eaten until AFTER the flood.

My point in bringing up Noah, was to show that because there was a distinction of clean and unclean animals during his time, and it was stated that unclean animals were not to be eaten in Leviticus 11, it is reasonable to conclude that unclean animals were not to be eaten during Noah's time as well.

Genesis 9:1-3

"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you SHALL BE UPON EVERY BEAST OF THE EARTH, AND UPON EVERY FOWL OF THE AIR, UPON ALL THAT MOVETH UPON THE EARTH, AND UPON ALL THE FISHES OF THE SEA; into your hand are they delivered. EVERY MOVING THING THAT LIVETH SHALL BE MEAT FOR YOU; even as the green herb HAVE I GIVEN YOU ALL THINGS."

Well, now there appears to be a problem. So, does this mean God changed His mind about things being unclean, stating that they could be eaten, only to command His people not to eat them at a later time, such as in Leviticus 11? Does God change His mind like that?

Or, maybe the translation is flawed, and merely gives that impression. This is certainly something worth taking a closer look at.

 

[TruthWave7]

TruthWave7:

Just so you know, my wife, children and I do "go organic" as much as possible.

You are wise. I wish there were more CF members who see the light, instead of rejecting it, at the cost of their physical and spiritual health.

 

[TruthWave7]

My point in bringing up Noah, was to show that because there was a distinction of clean and unclean animals during his time, and it was stated that unclean animals were not to be eaten in Leviticus 11, it is reasonable to conclude that unclean animals were not to be eaten during Noah's time as well.

Well, now there appears to be a problem. So, does this mean God changed His mind about things being unclean, stating that they could be eaten, only to command His people not to eat them at a later time, such as in Leviticus 11? Does God change His mind like that?

Or, maybe the translation is flawed, and merely gives that impression. This is certainly something worth taking a closer look at.

Noah knew what God meant, he already knew what was clean and unclean, and as the Earth recovered from the flood there would be an abundance of clean animals that he could eat and fruits, vegetable, grans, legumes, nuts, etc, etc.

 

[TruthWave7]

So did they become members of your church or something. I glad for you that you see some similarities. It is very interesting that you seem to think they are preaching SDA teaching. Merely incidental just like saying someone keeps the law because they don'n't commit adultery.

You just don't get it, this is a BIG trend that is finally taking place, since Evangelicals by and large have for decades been the tail, and not the head, when it comes to ministering to the needs of people's physical health along with their spiritual health. Evangelical, Mainline Protestants, and Catholics have attempted to disconnect the two for a long, but now in 00's some of the most well know Evangelicals are seeing that the SDAs were right!! Sadly, on the forum, there are scores of CF members who refuse to admit that the SDAs were right, and continue to deride a Biblical based message, that could such a blessing to some many sick people in the world.