Restored Israel: The Days Are Coming: The Second Regathering Of Israel To Their Land

[yeshuasavedme]

Isaiah 11:11


10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
15 And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.





Jeremiah 16:
14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
15 But, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the Lord, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
17 For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.
18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.
19 O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?
21 Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The Lord.



Jeremiah 23:

3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the Lord.
5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness/Yĕhovah tsidqenuw

7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8 But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

 

[Notrash]

When was the first time? From Egypt?

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

How about some New Testament verses.

 

[Old Timer]

How about the gospel of God's Son..

And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: for I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: for I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

...

Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Well, from the gospel of Matthew, we know that the LORD shall sit upon the throne of his glory when he comes in his glory.. and that is also when his Apostles (resurrected of course) shall also sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel..

In the regeneration... when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the LORD.. and the times of restitution of all things.

In that Day, the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.

 

[Old Timer]

IMO these things are undeniable..

And yet they're being denied and scoffed at to no end..

How come?

Can anyone think of a reason WHY that might be?

Who might want us to deny these simple truths.. concerning the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

 

[Old Timer]

IMO another reason for this is because Christians are often in Christ for a couple years and then think that they're ready to preach.. most of the time being largely ignorant of the immense volume of scripture within the ancient texts of the OT..

Which have already told the story.. in unsearchable, living and powerful, miraculous ways..

And I would agree with anyone who thinks of themselves as knowing nothing, save the fact that these are the unsearchable riches of Christ written down long before they shall come to pass...

 

[Old Timer]

Wouldn't you know the Apostle to the Gentiles warns the Christian church of being ignorant of the mystery concerning Israel.. how that they are blinded in part until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in..

And then shall the Deliverer come from Sion and turn away ungodliness from who?

JACOB... remember him... the one who was left alone and wrestled with the man until the breaking of the day..

The one who was deceived into believing that the son of his old age was dead because of his outer coat dipped in blood..

And the one who finally learned late in his life that the son of his old age was not only alive.. but ruler over all.

Once again, the LORD has told us the end from the beginning in unsearchable ways..

Although that certainly will not stop the scoffers from denying it all.. until that Day does break.. and comes as a thief in the night.. and even as travail upon a woman with child.

 

[Old Timer]

Once a believer comes to understand the distinction between the Israel of God, and the church of God.. it's almost like getting saved all over again..

IMO just about everything makes perfect contextual sense..

And I'm sure we have only scratched the surface of the unsearchable riches in that perfect man; Jesus of Nazareth, His only begotten Son, the Lamb of God, that true light and the light of men.. the bread of life.. the King of kings and Lord of lords.. who offered Himself blameless and without spot unto His Father.. to save many people alive.. in that Day, the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.

 

[Keachian]

Christ has already restored and restoring his bride Israel, he loved her and gave himself up for her, hat he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present her to himself in splendour, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

 

[Keachian]

Once a believer comes to understand the distinction between the Israel of God, and the church of God.. it's almost like getting saved all over again..

Because such an idea is a different and abhorrent gospel.

IMO just about everything makes perfect contextual sense..

No, far too many things no longer make sense, Paul's epistle to the Ephesians, written to non-believers they now participate in the commonwealth of Israel, there cannot therefore be a distinction between Believing Israel and the Church.

 

[Old Timer]

Because such an idea is a different and abhorrent gospel.

I would contend that it IS the gospel.. and remaining ignorant of the mystery pertaining to Israel's temporary blindness can only lead to one thing..

becoming wise in our own conceitedness.

No, far too many things no longer make sense, Paul's epistle to the Ephesians, written to non-believers they now participate in the commonwealth of Israel, there cannot therefore be a distinction between Believing Israel and the Church.

The church of God absolutely participates in the common WEALTH of Israel.. and that is CHRIST.

The Root and the Offspring of David is the unsearchable wealth that is attributed not only to the Israel of God, but also to the church of God, even while the nation of Israel is cut off and is an enemy to the gospel.

Until that Day does break.. and the Sun of righteousness does rise upon Israel.

 

[Keachian]

Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands​

Hellenistic Jews though sometimes uncircumcised were never called Gentiles, nor uncircumcision.

—remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.​

Further clarification that we are talking about the Gentiles and not Hellenized Jews.

So there is one question, why does the Dispensationalist say that the commonwealth of Israel is limited to Christ? Because that is what their tradition tells them it is limited to, the problem with this is that this is not what is seen in this passage as the commonwealth of Israel, sure Christ is a part of it as he is the Immanuel of the Covenant Lord and God of Israel. This Covenant Lord who spoke to Abraham saying; "Go! I will make of you a nation, I will bless you. Be a blessing! I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you, in you shall all be blessed." Who said of his covenant people; "I will be their God, and they will be my people." You cannot have us sharing in Jesus of Nazareth the fulfillment of these promises (cf. Gal 3:16) without us the body of Christ receiving these promises and fulfilling them.

But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.​

Paul here evokes images from the Day of Atonement in any Jewish listeners, the Gentiles have been sprinkled as it were by the blood of Christ, they are taking part in one of the most important covenantal festivals of Israel, .they are being cleaned to be able to take part in that community of God and to worship God wholly and truly.

For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.​

Because Jesus is the promised one, the one promised to Israel, to Abraham, to Eve, he reconciles us to each other and then us together to God, this is further proof that there is not a dual economy between the Church and Israel, but rather the Church in all senses is Israel, we cannot truly be joined with the remnant of believing Israel without also gaining the promises made to her, we the Church do this.

And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.​

A Trinitarian formulation of reconciliation further (because of the unity of the Godhead) enforces the covenant linkage between the Gentiles brought near and the Believing Ones of Israel.

So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,​

hearkening back to the idea of the commonwealth of Israel Paul talks about the Gentiles no longer being strangers and aliens, if we are not strangers or aliens then we are natives and if we are natives then;

but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,​

We are citizens proper, we are native Israelites is what Paul is essentially saying here, further he says that we are members of the household of God, so close have we been brought into the covenant with Israel that we have come into the tribes of Judah and Levi, for Christ having reconciled the offices of Priest and King is our brother so we are members of those households. So we take part truly in the family of God, Israel herself the bride of God (Eze 16) the Church the bride of Christ (Eph 5) if we deny that the Church could be Israel then we deny that Christ is God.

built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets,​

Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,​

The promise of the rejected piece becoming the cornerstone was given to Israel, if we say that Christ is our cornerstone then we acknowledge that he was rejected and that we are Israel.

in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.​

God has only ever had one temple, that is the significance of why the Church is Israel, the Temple being the place where God's presence is fully known and felt through the communion with the divine, once it was a physical place within the land that He gave to Israel, now we who he has bought through the Cross are his Temple, there cannot be another, he dwells with us he is Immanuel, the dispenational doctrine of a third temple fall flat on its face in the light that the Church is the Temple of God, complete and being made perfect as he constructs it by calling his people out of the world and into faith in his Son, may he be glorified forever, come Lord Jesus, come!

 

[Old Timer]

the dispenational doctrine of a third temple fall flat on its face in the light that the Church is the Temple of God, complete and being made perfect as he constructs it by calling his people out of the world and into faith in his Son, may he be glorified forever, come Lord Jesus, come!

I think that you're contradicting yourself here.. because you deny the temple being built and the man of sin sitting therein, correct?

And yet the coming of Christ is undeniably connected with destroying that man of sin by the brightness of his coming..

When He does come..

This is simply another subtle way which the rulers of the darkness of this world try to convince men that THAT DAY has already come..

Although it is coming.. and shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child..

 

[Old Timer]

There are so many things connected with the coming(s) of Christ that it is simply unimaginable...

The resurrection of the dead..

The church of God being caught up to meet the LORD in the air and presented to himself without spot or wrinkle or any such thing.. and this shall be a marriage made in heaven..

The Deliverer coming to turn away ungodliness from Jacob..

The LORD destroying the man of sin by the brightness of His coming.. after he has ruled for 42 months..

I'd be the first to admit that I can't even begin to understand the enormity of any of these things.. which shall be hereafter.. in that Day, the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.

 

[Keachian]

I think that you're contradicting yourself here.. because you deny the temple being built and the man of sin sitting therein, correct?

I don't think you need have a brick and mortar temple to have a futurist view of the Abomination of Desolation, for instance the man of sin has been at the time of the Reformation been identified as the Papal office, this would continue the doctrine of the Church being the final Temple of God without coming into problems. However I am a partial preterist so I see it as being fulfilled in the destruction of the Second Temple by Titus, though I would and am open to a man of sin interpretation similar to that of the Reformers.

And yet the coming of Christ is undeniably connected with destroying that man of sin by the brightness of his coming..

Can I have a scripture reference for this belief? I'm a simple exegete and it feels to me like you're stringing things along that refer to Christs first coming to his second coming.

This is simply another subtle way which the rulers of the darkness of this world try to convince men that THAT DAY has already come..

I will point you to my last paragraph and the benediction at the end, it is eschatological in nature looking forward to "THAT DAY" so your accusation is simply false.

Although it is coming.. and shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child..

So why do you insist upon a chronology that we can follow, if there is a chronology that we can follow then it does not come as a thief in the night, the only thing we Christians know is that the next thing to definitively happen is the coming of the Lord when he will judge the living and the dead, there is no notion in Christian eschatological belief before the 19th Century that Christ will come remove his Church, then leave, to come back seven years later to reestablish Israel and let them continue to mock Christ by making sacrifices for a millennium to then return to make judgement. It's flat on its face silly imo.

 

[Old Timer]

I don't think you need have a brick and mortar temple to have a futurist view of the Abomination of Desolation, for instance the man of sin has been at the time of the Reformation been identified as the Papal office, this would continue the doctrine of the Church being the final Temple of God without coming into problems. However I am a partial preterist so I see it as being fulfilled in the destruction of the Second Temple by Titus, though I would and am open to a man of sin interpretation similar to that of the Reformers.


Can I have a scripture reference for this belief? I'm a simple exegete and it feels to me like you're stringing things along that refer to Christs first coming to his second coming.

Specifically 2 Thess 2

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The man of sin and his sitting in the temple are undeniably connected to the coming of Christ.. not in the past, but rather undeniably in the future.

So why do you insist upon a chronology that we can follow, if there is a chronology that we can follow then it does not come as a thief in the night, the only thing we Christians know is that the next thing to definitively happen is the coming of the Lord when he will judge the living and the dead, there is no notion in Christian eschatological belief before the 19th Century that Christ will come remove his Church, then leave, to come back seven years later to reestablish Israel and let them continue to mock Christ by making sacrifices for a millennium to then return to make judgement. It's flat on its face silly imo.

Perhaps you should study the prophets of Israel more thoroughly.. for therein you'll find undeniable evidence of Israel being delivered in that Day.. the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ..

The church is not built upon the Apostles alone.. it is also built upon the prophets.. this is the sure foundation of the church of God with Christ Jesus the chief cornerstone.

 

[Old Timer]

Another thing which we need to remind ourselves of is that the rulers of the darkness of this world absolutely hate Israel..

They want nothing more than to literally wipe that nation right off the map and rid the world of them permanently..

IMO if men can't see this then their heads are buried in the sand.

But you know what.. imo many men simply don't believe the truth.. the simple truth that Satan is the god of this present evil world and presently the prince and power of the air..

Although when that day comes and he is revealed.. he shall be cast down to the earth.. even the Dragon.. and shall have dominion over it for 42 months..

And that's the last thing in the world that the rulers of this dark world would have any man believe.. they're going to tell you that it's all in the past and make you feel more spiritual in the process.

 

[Bible2]

Old Timer said in post 8:

Once a believer comes to understand the distinction between the Israel of God, and the church of God.. it's almost like getting saved all over again..

Note that all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29) and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he's been grafted into and he will receive an answer from God if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22) without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they're genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they've undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

Also, the book of James was addressing "the twelve tribes" (James 1:1), which was the same as addressing people in the church (James 5:14), people with faith in Christ (James 2:1, James 1:3) (i.e. Christians), people who have been born again (James 1:18, cf. 1 Peter 1:23), who are waiting for Christ to return (James 5:7).

Old Timer said in post 8:

And I'm sure we have only scratched the surface of the unsearchable riches in that perfect man; Jesus of Nazareth, His only begotten Son, the Lamb of God, that true light and the light of men.. the bread of life.. the King of kings and Lord of lords.. who offered Himself blameless and without spot unto His Father.. to save many people alive.. in that Day, the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.

The day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, "immediately after" the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), which is when the rapture (the gathering together) of the church will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

*******

Old Timer said in post 7:

Wouldn't you know the Apostle to the Gentiles warns the Christian church of being ignorant of the mystery concerning Israel.. how that they are blinded in part until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in..

In Romans 11:25 the Gentiles are genetic Gentiles, the people addressed throughout Romans 11:13-31, who aren't genetic Jews like Paul (Romans 11:1,14). Both individual genetic Jewish believers (natural branches) and individual genetic Gentile believers (engrafted wild branches) are branches in the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24). For when Gentiles become believers they "come in" (Romans 11:25) to be part of Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29). The fruit of each individual branch would be the good works of each individual (Colossians 1:10). It's the genetic Jews who are "blind in part", meaning some of them are spiritually blind while others aren't (Romans 11:7-10). For "blindness in part is happened to Israel" (Romans 11:25) in its genetic sense (Romans 11:1,14), that is, genetic Jews (Acts 22:3). Also, in Romans 11:25-26, "Israel" includes elect genetic Jews who aren't yet believers (Romans 11:28) but will become believers eventually (Romans 11:26).

When Paul says "until the fulness (pleroma) of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25) he means until a full number of genetic Gentile individuals have become saved, which won't happen until near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:26), just as Luke 21:24 shows "the times of the Gentiles" won't be "fulfilled (pleroo)" until the completion of the treading down of Jerusalem during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 11:2b, Revelation 13:5-18) during the 2nd half of the tribulation.

Immediately after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-30) all the still-living unsaved elect genetic Jews will become saved (Romans 11:26-28) by God's grace when they see the returned Jesus in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, just as when genetic Jews believe in Jesus now they become part of the church, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

And the genetic Jews who will become believers at the 2nd coming will all become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, who is "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zechariah 12:10 (Hebrews 10:29c, Romans 8:26), just as genetic Jewish believers today become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit. For it's by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both genetic Jewish believers and genetic Gentile believers become part of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13).

Also, if the genetic Jews who will become saved at the 2nd coming had been religious Jews, they won't continue to mistakenly try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, because they will then be believers in the truth that on Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the 2nd covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and shouldn't keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21) or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

*******

Old Timer said in post 16:

The man of sin and his sitting in the temple are undeniably connected to the coming of Christ.. not in the past, but rather undeniably in the future.

That's right (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). For no man ever sat in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaimed himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, cf. Matthew 24:15), just as no man ever fulfilled other detailed references to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) in Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 16:2-16, Revelation 19:19-21, and 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9. Any mistaken teaching which claims the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in the future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking he isn't the Antichrist.

The Antichrist will fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 after he by force takes control of a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stops the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of it, and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

The Antichrist could then make quite a show of his sitting himself in the temple and declaring himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). In a television and internet broadcast which will be seen live by the world, he could first be shown entering the temple's most holy place in magnificent golden robes. He could then step up to the Ark of the Covenant (which could have been discovered, and placed in the temple by the Jews) and lift the Mercy Seat off of the Ark, showing the Ark to be empty. He could then look into the camera and say: "Where's YHWH? He's not here! He's a distant fraud! His power on this earth is as hollow as this empty Ark!" (The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH: Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36.)

Then the Antichrist could raise the Mercy Seat high above his head only to suddenly smash it down violently to the ground, breaking it into pieces. The piped-in sound of crowds roaring with approval could then be heard in the background. Then the Antichrist could place his hands on the Ark and stare into the camera: "WE can do better than this". He could then knock over the Ark and stamp it with his foot, bashing in its side. Two of the Antichrist's followers in robes could then quickly come in and clear away the rubble of the Mercy Seat and the Ark, while 4 more men in robes carry into the temple's most holy place a magnificent golden throne and place it right where the Ark had been before. All the men could then bow down and motion with their arms for the Antichrist to sit on the throne. He could then grandly take his seat upon it.

Glorious symphonic music could then swell as the sound of crowds roaring with approval increases. Then the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be an apostate pope) could enter the temple's most holy place and approach the Antichrist carrying a majestic golden crown encrusted with large diamonds and all kinds of precious stones. The Antichrist could take the crown from the pope's hands, and as the Antichrist is placing the crown on his own head, a camera could zoom in on his face as he says: "I AM THAT I AM. I AM YOUR GOD. Worship me, all ye nations of the earth!"

(cf. Revelation 13:8, Daniel 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4)

 

[Bible2]

progmonk said in post 15:

I don't think you need have a brick and mortar temple to have a futurist view of the Abomination of Desolation, for instance the man of sin has been at the time of the Reformation been identified as the Papal office, this would continue the doctrine of the Church being the final Temple of God without coming into problems. However I am a partial preterist so I see it as being fulfilled in the destruction of the Second Temple by Titus, though I would and am open to a man of sin interpretation similar to that of the Reformers.

Note that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Catholicism in its past and current form, insofar as Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Christ, whereas the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Son of God, whereas the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Son of God (1 John 2:22b). And Catholicism affirms that Christ is in the flesh, whereas the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Catholicism affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, whereas the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that the only man who is God is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whereas the Antichrist will say that he (the Antichrist) is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that Lucifer (Satan) is evil, whereas the Antichrist will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Catholicism in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), could at first pretend to support Catholicism (as well as Christianity generally, and also Islam), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

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The beast which comes up out of the earth (Revelation 13:11-16) represents the individual man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). He could be a secretly-apostate pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are we not all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Can't we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What's more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in two religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the two horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the 7 horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding 7 positions of power at the same time (cf. Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say that he is Jesus. (But he won't say that he is Christ, for the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ, and will deny that Christ is in the flesh: 1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7.)

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

progmonk said in post 15:

I don't think you need have a brick and mortar temple to have a futurist view of the Abomination of Desolation, for instance the man of sin has been at the time of the Reformation been identified as the Papal office, this would continue the doctrine of the Church being the final Temple of God without coming into problems. However I am a partial preterist so I see it as being fulfilled in the destruction of the Second Temple by Titus, though I would and am open to a man of sin interpretation similar to that of the Reformers.

While the church as a whole is a figurative temple building (Ephesians 2:21), it isn't the only temple of God. For it coexists with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole temple can currently coexist with all these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd-earthly-literal temple building which Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show will exist in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple building will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21) and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). That's why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say that the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old-Covenant-Mosaic-law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6) because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

 

[n2thelight]

Israel is the Church, therefore no distinction need be made