Restored Israel: The Days Are Coming: The Second Regathering Of Israel To Their Land

[ebedmelech]

Glad to see you have finally offered up an opinion on Rom 11 as simple as it is. There is one tree, but you ignore that the tree has a natural root, broken off branches and grafted in branches.

You ignore this and endlessly reference scripture that says the children of God, aka All Israel is made up of Jews and Gentiles. Spiritually there is no difference. This was a sensitive issue back in Paul's day because there was bigotry by the Jewish Christians on the gentiles. Stop misapplying scripture to repudiate what Rom 11 says.

The saved is clearly made up of Jews and gentiles. The Jews are currently in the remnant stage, hence the calling them disobedient and an obstinate people thus curses have been dispensed on them. This is nothing new to Israel. They have been there before and then God restores his grace to them.

You seem to think you are more deserving of God's grace than Israel. I leave you with the warning not to be guilty of religious bigotry like Paul wrote about, only now you hold yourself superior.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

Present day Israel is a remnant in the waiting. My fear is that it will take a colossal act of destruction for them to turn to God.

The point is...the tree takes two and make ONE TREE.Which is "all Israel".

The best way to render Romans 11:26 is most properly rendered"and IN THIS WAY all Israel will be saved". Check on that.

The Complete Jewish Bible does it right:
26 and that it is in this way that all Isra’el will be saved. As the Tanakh says,

So does the NIV:
26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

This is the point Israel includes the church made up of Jews and Gentiles.Pau labors to do this in his writings. Just as he says in Philippians 3:3:
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

 

[Shocker]

The point is...the tree takes two and make ONE TREE.Which is "all Israel".

That's what weve been trying to tell you.

Tree=seed of Abraham, Christians, Israel.

Branches from wild olive tree= Gentiles (tree is still alive to this day)

Branches broken from the olive tree (Jews still alive to this day)



So if you aren't a Christian, what are you?

The answer is perfectly clear.

You are a Jew, or a Gentile.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

The point is...the tree takes two and make ONE TREE.Which is "all Israel".

The best way to render Romans 11:26 is most properly rendered"and IN THIS WAY all Israel will be saved". Check on that.

The Complete Jewish Bible does it right:
26 and that it is in this way that all Isra’el will be saved. As the Tanakh says,

So does the NIV:
26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

This is the point Israel includes the church made up of Jews and Gentiles.Pau labors to do this in his writings. Just as he says in Philippians 3:3:
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

No, you continuously miss the point and repeatedly say what is agreed.

Spiritually one tree, yes you have said this a hundred times.
Heritage is of two trees, you know this.

What you ignore are the many times I highlighted, literally in red to make it easier for you to see, is that God can still bring his grace to Israel. The fact that God did not permanently cut them off, Rom 9:29 is evidence that he has plans for them.

Again I repeat, "for God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE."

 

[ebedmelech]

That's what weve been trying to tell you.

Tree=seed of Abraham, Christians, Israel.

Branches from wild olive tree= Gentiles (tree is still alive to this day)

Branches broken from the olive tree (Jews still alive to this day)



So if you aren't a Christian, what are you?

The answer is perfectly clear.

You are a Jew, or a Gentile.

I have always said this...you're preaching to the choir and you're not reading what I say OR, I'm saying it badly.

I did a whole debate on this with Biblewriter. I think we went past each other on this.

This is the point I was making when I said:

Those who want to make it about Israel, never deal with this...Romans 9:6-8:
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.”
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Now Paul tells us in Galatians 3:16:
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.

They never explain how that works...

The point I make is people want to continue tomake adifference in Jews and Gentiles in Christ when there is none!

Christians are the "chosen generation"!!!

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The point is...the tree takes two and make ONE TREE.Which is "all Israel".

There was never more than one tree.
You mixed things up.
Gentiles who are truly born again into the One Living Messiah Spirit are grafted into the Israel Plant of righteousness? Christ come in flesh, by that Spirit of adoption.
Natural Israel born of Jacob are the natural branches.
So some of them got cut off for unbelief, but the Tree is One, and the Branches are not all cut off, and God is able to graft them in again.
You boast as if you replaced natural Israel, and you are just a graft on their own promised Plant of Righteousness.

 

[Notrash]

The point is...the tree takes two and make ONE TREE.Which is "all Israel".

The best way to render Romans 11:26 is most properly rendered"and IN THIS WAY all Israel will be saved". Check on that.

The Complete Jewish Bible does it right:
26 and that it is in this way that all Isra’el will be saved. As the Tanakh says,

So does the NIV:
26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

This is the point Israel includes the church made up of Jews and Gentiles.Pau labors to do this in his writings. Just as he says in Philippians 3:3:
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

If you research what Is 59 is saying (which vs 26 is tanæken from) a.d note that it is an overlap of deut 32; the saving of "all Israel; (the believers) comes through the removal of the vipers and injustice and provoking of his sons and daughters who, like Jaco was, are adopted in their humanity through faith. This 'saving' came through the roman armies (the enemy of the pharisees) as was prophesied in deut 32:42 and numbers 24:7 or 8 (and elsewhere.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I have always said this...you're preaching to the choir and you're not reading what I say OR, I'm saying it badly.

I did a whole debate on this with Biblewriter. I think we went past each other on this.

This is the point I was making when I said:


The point I make is people want to continue tomake adifference in Jews and Gentiles in Christ when there is none!

Christians are the "chosen generation"!!!

The only chosen generation is the one adopted righteous generation of sons of God of the human being kind.
The adoption pertains to Israel, the New Man name of Adoption, and Gentiles who get adopted into the One New Man do not replace the natural branches, and the adopted into the one living Spirit Gentiles do not stop being Gentiles nor do the Jews who are born again stop being Jews, nor do males who are born again in Christ stop being males nor do females who are born again into the One Living Spirit stop being females.
The flesh of a male remains male, the flesh of a female remains female, and the freemen and slaves and Gentiles and Jews all remain the same in their flesh, but the Spirit of Promise is given to the seed of Abraham through Isaac, and Gentiles adopted into that One Living Spirit of Promise do not replace natural Israel and natural Israel will be everything God says she will be, in the restoration of the kingdom of God on earth, when Jews and Gentiles will worship the One YHWH and all male Gentiles of all the cities of the earth will come up to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles in the millennial Sabbath reign or else their cities will get no rain for one year.

We are all one spirit in Adam flesh as long as we are in the dead Adam body, and we are males and female and Jews and Gentiles and slaves and freemen; and in Adam, all die.
The Spirit of Promise given to AbraHAm is now come upon every person of faith in the promise: to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile.
Jews do not stop being Jews when they come into the Living Spirit of adoption nor do Gentiles stop being Gentiles when they come into the Living Spirit/Messiah, of adoption.

And God has great promises for His own namesake people of His New Man name, which promises will be totally fulfilled on earth, and for heaven's sake.

Jesus did not stop being a Jew when He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven and received the Glory. He is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah and He is very jealous over His chosen City of Earth, the City which will be the head of the nations in the millennial reign, and forever, in the regeneration of all things.

We Gentiles do not stop being Gentiles when we receive the spirit of adoption, but we will be named "Israel" in the DNA flesh of regeneration, for that is the name of the Firstborn Son and Everlasting Father of the second Creation Human being Son of God.


Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

 

[Notrash]

Through you (and the seed promised through the fe
ale gender) will all nations of the earth be blessed. This was promised before circuncision ( work of flesh) as Paul explains in Rom 3-5. The everlasting kingdom of the everlasting covt of Dan 7 and Rev is of all races, languages and people.

 

[Shocker]

I have always said this...you're preaching to the choir and you're not reading what I say OR, I'm saying it badly.

I did a whole debate on this with Biblewriter. I think we went past each other on this.

This is the point I was making when I said:


The point I make is people want to continue tomake adifference in Jews and Gentiles in Christ when there is none!

Christians are the "chosen generation"!!!

I might have misunderstood because I understand this perfectly well, and I agree..

Im with you on this, at least I think, I too hold that anyone in Christ is a Christian, not a Jew or a Gentile.

 

[ebedmelech]

The only chosen generation is the one adopted righteous generation of sons of God of the human being kind.
The adoption pertains to Israel, the New Man name of Adoption, and Gentiles who get adopted into the One New Man do not replace the natural branches, and the adopted into the one living Spirit Gentiles do not stop being Gentiles nor do the Jews who are born again stop being Jews, nor do males who are born again in Christ stop being males nor do females who are born again into the One Living Spirit stop being females.
The flesh of a male remains male, the flesh of a female remains female, and the freemen and slaves and Gentiles and Jews all remain the same in their flesh, but the Spirit of Promise is given to the seed of Abraham through Isaac, and Gentiles adopted into that One Living Spirit of Promise do not replace natural Israel and natural Israel will be everything God says she will be, in the restoration of the kingdom of God on earth, when Jews and Gentiles will worship the One YHWH and all male Gentiles of all the cities of the earth will come up to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles in the millennial Sabbath reign or else their cities will get no rain for one year.

We are all one spirit in Adam flesh as long as we are in the dead Adam body, and we are males and female and Jews and Gentiles and slaves and freemen; and in Adam, all die.
The Spirit of Promise given to AbraHAm is now come upon every person of faith in the promise: to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile.
Jews do not stop being Jews when they come into the Living Spirit of adoption nor do Gentiles stop being Gentiles when they come into the Living Spirit/Messiah, of adoption.

And God has great promises for His own namesake people of His New Man name, which promises will be totally fulfilled on earth, and for heaven's sake.

Jesus did not stop being a Jew when He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven and received the Glory. He is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah and He is very jealous over His chosen City of Earth, the City which will be the head of the nations in the millennial reign, and forever, in the regeneration of all things.

We Gentiles do not stop being Gentiles when we receive the spirit of adoption, but we will be named "Israel" in the DNA flesh of regeneration, for that is the name of the Firstborn Son and Everlasting Father of the second Creation Human being Son of God.


Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

This is quite misapplied. Everyone who God chooses are adopted. Read Romans 8.

Galatians 4:5
so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Ephesians 1:5
He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

So much for that thinking.

 

[Interplanner]

I hope this will be seen by those who believe there is a sort of magical meaning to 'the nation born in a day'. I think Dougg here at CF does.

For people in this generation in America who think that, ka-ching, the idea of a modern state of Israel just came out of nowhere like a divine miracle and happened like Jesus stopping a storm suddenly, I have a huge suggestion. Check the novel DANIEL DERONDA by G. Eliot, one of the classic novelists of the 1800s, with Dickens, Gaskell, Hardy, etc. In the BBC production in 2005, episode 4, you'll find further interactions between Daniel and the London Jewish community set in 1880.

Eliot is one of the most realistic in her portrayals of life and society at that time. Not only is Daniel about to discover he actually is an ethnic Jew, he learns that he has providentially been brought into their circle (by rescuing the abandoned daughter of a failing musician). As far as he knew, he was a landed English gentleman. As he gets more acquainted with them socially, he finds out that many of them 'don't think they can realize their destiny as a people unless they are back in their own land' even though that means the unwelcome thought of 'long conflict with the Arabs who now dwell there.'

So this kind of scene indicates a number of things:
1, their belief about being back in their land starts much earlier than the prophecy experts would have us think. There are reasons to think that this belief is actually perennial (shows up each generation).
2, there is some providence about it (the Jews in the novel do sound quite a bit like evangelicals today about 'all things work together for good' and the absence of sheer chance encounters). But there is not enough providence about it for the older generation who hears the younger ones speak of it. For the older and wiser Jewish person in London, they are quite content with what God has provided there.
3, there is obviously the belief that the destiny of the Jewish person requires that they be in their land. While older generation Jews don't connect this with being in the land, there is something very important to notice here: all "destiny" means is the keeping of the adapted worship system, for ex., the synagogue worship going on down the street. The younger generation wants to go back to the land and this probably means rebuilding a temple. But either way, we have to ask: is this all the apostles would have said was "destiny"? The answer is:
4, There is nothing about the yearning to return to the land that comes anywhere close to a NT understanding of Israel's destiny. For that we only need to read the early sermons of Acts, then Acts 13's sample of Paul in a synagogue, then Eph 2-3 or Gal 3-4. Rom 9-11 is solidly built on all this, but totally part from the land. It is all about the mission of the Gospel. It is the Isaianic vision that there would a great company of preachers of the new message. 11:26 isn't about the land, and there is no reason why it would have left the mission emphasis. The NT doesn't go back to the spread of Torah observance, even if it is in synagogues. The new Israel that is going to be saved down through time, will be saved, because they are the ones who now believe that the Redeemer did come, historically, to Zion.