Restored Israel: The Days Are Coming: The Second Regathering Of Israel To Their Land

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When was the first time? From Egypt?
Notrash, you were rash in your reply, for you replied without reading the passage:)
Isaiah 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Because such an idea is a different and abhorrent gospel.


No, far too many things no longer make sense, Paul's epistle to the Ephesians, written to non-believers they now participate in the commonwealth of Israel, there cannot therefore be a distinction between Believing Israel and the Church.
Says you, in mis-understanding of the Gospel message which is given to the namesake people of the New Man name, which is a sign of the adoption which was to come for all who would be redeemed by adoption into the Living Spirit, which Abraham's name change oracled, and adoption into the flesh, which Jacob's name change oracled, and which adoption into the name you have not even yet attained to, in the flesh: but if you are born of the One Living Spirit/Christ/Messiah/The Anointed One, then you have the promise of, and hope for, by that adoption into the One Living Spirit.


The adoption pertains to natural Israel, the seed of Jacob.

Rom 9:4,5 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

The adoption name pertains to the adoption of the flesh body, and natural Israel has that name by nature, and the promises, but the Gentiles born into the Spirit of promise have the hope of receiving that name, "Israel".

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

The hope of the adoption body is the promise to those "grafted into the One Living Spirit" by second birth of promise, given to Abraham.

The natural seed of Abraham have the name of the promised adoption flesh, and redeemed Gentiles do not wear that name, and they are not from the loins of Jacob, and they do not automatically become non gendered nor non- Gentiles when they receive the Spirit of Promise, which is Christ/Messiah/the Anointing.

To say there is no distinction in Jews or Gentiles nor males nor females nor slaves nor freemen "in Christ" is to deny the Truth of The Gospel and to lay claim to something that is not in the Word of God, for the Spirit of Promise adds one to the same body that is joined by the One "Spirit" of adoption, but the flesh and the gender and the ethnic/tribal heritage remains same.

Until the name "Israel" is written on your DNA elementally transformed resurrected or regenerated at the rapture flesh body, you are not named "Israel", but just as AbraHAm had the promise of the Spirit when God changed his name, so you have received that Spirit of Promise, if so be you are indeed "In Christ" by second birth from above.

The "white Stone" Jesus gives is the Elementally transformed body of flesh so as to be a "pillar in the temple of God", which is what Adam was created to be and to bring for sons of God for the building of, for the Glory to indwell, as the first temple not made with hands.

The fall caused the death of the living seed in the loins of the first father of the race, and not one of us has come forth as "Living Stones" to build the temple for the Glory to indwell, and so we wear clothes, to hide the shame of our ruin in the loss of the Life and the Glory.

All the promises of the second temple not made with hands belong only to Israel, and only those adopted into the Living Spirit have the promised Hope of becoming Living Flesh Stones for building Zion up, for the Glory.

We have the Hope. We are not yet attained to it but by faith, and confidence in the promises of God.

Natural Israel are the natural sons of adoption, living in the same hope, but with all the promises of all the glory that male and female and slaves and freemen born into the Living Spirit Gentiles only have the hope of, also, at this time, and not even the natural name of, at this time in these dead Adam flesh bodies.

Rev 3:12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

We live by faith in the same hope that we have not yet attained which is promised to the seed of Abraham through Jacob.

Being born into the Living Spirit, we are grafted onto the "Righteous Plant", Israel, but we are that only by the adoption. Natural Israel has it by Name.

We all have the same hope, and not the same office.

Ridiculous to try to make" no males, no females, no slaves nor freemen nor Jews nor Gentiles nor Israel of Jacob -and Abraham's seed through Isaac.

Even the LORD of Glory is a born member of the tribe of Judah, in his flesh. Gentiles do not have that distinction, nor shall they ever, for the adoption into the One Living Spirit does not change ethnic heritage nor gender nor office, and we all wait for the adoption of the flesh and the DNA name change of that body, to be "Living Stones/Pillars of the Temple of God not made with hands".
Adam was that, and we died in his loins as living seed to come forth as "white stones" for building the Temple not made with hands.
Malachi 2:15 He made them male and female, one spirit, because he sought godly seed/living sons.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Notrash

Senior Member
May 5, 2007
2,192
137
In my body
✟10,983.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Notrash, you were rash in your reply, for you replied without reading the passage:)
Isaiah 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
I don't see it as rash. It doesn't say the second time of regathering from those places, but it could read that the second regathering would be from those places and not from egypt.
???
However, if the first regathering is intended to mean from babylon, assyria and so forth from @ 450 till @70 AD; then the second "RE-gathering" would have been from 70AD til 135 AD. This wss also prophecied in Ez 38:8 where it says that they would be brought back from the sword (deut 32:41,42) of 70 AD after the new, everlasting covt is established (deut 30:5-15; Ez 36:25-27;Jer 31:25-31 etc) for a second wave of reproving the new covt or a "double honor" (Is 61:7) for those who followed the way of fiath, peace and life of the words, authority and truths of Christ.

.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't see it as rash. It doesn't say the second time of regathering from those places, but it could read that the second regathering would be from those places and not from egypt.
???
However, if the first regathering is intended to mean from babylon, assyria and so forth from @ 450 till @70 AD; then the second "RE-gathering" would have been from 70AD til 133-135 AD. This wss also prophecied in Ez 38:8 where it says that they would be brought back from the sword (deut 32:41,42) of 70 AD after the new, everlasting covt is established (deut 30:5-15; Ez 36:25-27;Jer 31:25-31 etc) for a second wave of reproving the new covt or a "double honor" (Is 61:7) for those who followed the way of fiath, peace and life of the words, authority and truths of Christ.

.
Whoa!
The Word says the second gathering from those places:
The word sheniy/ שֵׁנִי is:

  1. second
    1. second (the ordinal number)
    2. again (a second time)
    3. another, other (something as distinct from something else)

and is from the Hebrew shanah / שָׁנָה "to repeat, to do again".

He scattered them twice, and He is gathering them the second time.
The two scatterings have two gatherings promised.

The last, second scattering was begun in 70 AD, and completed in 130 AD, and the second gathering back from those lands He scattered them into began in the 1800's, when He indeed sent the fishers =the Jewish Zionists- and the hunters =the anti Jewish Nazi's.
He has done it once, and He is doing it again.
There is no way under God's heaven to claim that the word does not mean the second gathering back for a second, repeated time, back to the promised land from those lands to which they were scattered, twice.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Whoa!
The Word says the second gathering from those places:
The word sheniy/ שֵׁנִי is:

  1. second
    1. second (the ordinal number)
    2. again (a second time)
    3. another, other (something as distinct from something else)

and is from the Hebrew shanah / שָׁנָה "to repeat, to do again".

He scattered them twice, and He is gathering them the second time.
The two scatterings have two gatherings promised.

The last, second scattering was begun in 70 AD, and completed in 130 AD, and the second gathering back from those lands He scattered them into began in the 1800's, when He indeed sent the fishers =the Jewish Zionists- and the hunters =the anti Jewish Nazi's.
He has done it once, and He is doing it again.
There is no way under God's heaven to claim that the word does not mean the second gathering back for a second, repeated time, back to the promised land from those lands to which they were scattered, twice.
And the passage says the second gathering will be finished like this:
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
15 And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.
 
Upvote 0
B

Bible2

Guest
yeshuasavedme said in post 22:

The adoption pertains to natural Israel, the seed of Jacob.

Rom 9:4,5 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

All genetic Jews are part of genetic Israel (Romans 9:3-5). But being part of the true, spiritual Israel, the true, spiritual seed of Abraham, the promised seed, isn't based on genetics (Romans 9:6-24), but on God's election (Romans 9:11), which includes both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

All believing Jews and all believing Gentiles are part of the true Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 11:17,24, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10, John 10:16), the seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:28-29, Romans 4:16-17), the promised seed, just as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28). And so all Gentiles in the church, along with all Jews in the church, are heirs of all the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Romans 15:27).

In Romans 9:8, by "the children of the flesh", Paul means genetic Jews, who are the genetic children of Abraham (Romans 11:1, Acts 13:26, John 8:37). And by "the children of God"/"the children of the promise", Paul means the elect, both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24, Galatians 4:28). Romans 9:6-8 means not all Jews are elect (John 8:37-47, John 10:26) and some Gentiles are elect (Romans 9:24, John 10:16, John 11:52). Only a remnant of genetic Israel is elect (Romans 9:27).

yeshuasavedme said in post 22:

Ridiculous to try to make" no males, no females, no slaves nor freemen nor Jews nor Gentiles nor Israel of Jacob -and Abraham's seed through Isaac.

Galatians 3:28 means there's no distinction between Jewish and Gentile believers with regard to salvation (Romans 10:12; 1 Corinthians 12:13). Galatians 3:28 isn't contradicting that believers remain either genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b).

Similarly, Galatians 3:28 means there's no distinction between male and female believers with regard to salvation (1 Peter 3:7b). There are distinctions between them with regard to other matters (1 Timothy 2:11-12, 1 Corinthians 14:34-37; 1 Corinthians 11:4-16, 1 Peter 3:7a) besides the obvious genital distinction.

yeshuasavedme said in post 22:

Ridiculous to try to make" no males, no females, no slaves nor freemen nor Jews nor Gentiles nor Israel of Jacob -and Abraham's seed through Isaac.

All those in the church, whether Jews or Gentiles, are spiritually Abraham's seed (Galatians 3:29). And Abraham's seed is Israel (Isaiah 41:8, Romans 11:1; 2 Chronicles 20:7). So the entire church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). Not just the Jews in the church (e.g. Romans 11:1b) but also the Gentiles in the church are spiritually Abraham's seed of promise (Romans 9:7,8,24) as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28) and as Jesus is (Galatians 3:16,29). And so Gentiles in the church, along with Jews in the church, are heirs of all the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 15:27, Galatians 3:29b, Romans 11:17,24).

Similarly, just as all believers are individual branches in the vine which is Jesus (John 15:5), the only way to salvation (John 14:6, Acts 4:12), so all believers are individual branches in the good olive tree of Israel, the Jews' own tree (Romans 11:17,24, Jeremiah 11:16-17). For all Jewish believers remain part of Israel (Romans 11:1) as the natural branches in the tree of Israel (Romans 11:24). And all Gentile believers have been grafted as branches from a wild olive tree into the tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29) so they can partake of the salvation of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). This doesn't mean a wild branch becomes a natural branch, that a Gentile believer becomes a genetic Jew, but that Gentile believers, even while remaining branches from a wild olive tree, even while remaining genetic Gentiles, are still grafted in to become part of the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24).

*******

yeshuasavedme said in post 24:

The last, second scattering was begun in 70 AD, and completed in 130 AD, and the second gathering back from those lands He scattered them into began in the 1800's, when He indeed sent the fishers =the Jewish Zionists- and the hunters =the anti Jewish Nazi's.
He has done it once, and He is doing it again.

The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel that was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.
 
Upvote 0

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Romans 11 speaks much on the subject but my favorite verse is 29 as Paul speaks about the future of his Jewish brothers.

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Also verses 12 and 15 could possibly allude to Jesus 2nd coming and the resurrection soon after the Jews have accepted Jesus.

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?


Of the two witnesses of Revelation 11, if you are one to interpret it symbolically I ask what event would cause the most people of this world to rejoice? I can not think the killing of any two individuals in today's politics could create any such rejoicing. Now a nuclear attack on the U.S. and Israel would destroy the economies and power of those two nations. It would create the biggest rejoicing among the enemies of God.

Remember Satan tried to prevent the fulfillment of prophecy by using King Herod to kill all the baby boys when Jesus was born. Satan will again attack Gods people.


Rev 11:10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
 
Upvote 0

ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic
Supporter
Jul 3, 2012
8,998
678
✟187,689.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Those who want to make it about Israel, never deal with this...Romans 9:6-8:
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.”
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.


Now Paul tells us in Galatians 3:16:
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.

They never explain how that works...:confused:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Those who want to make it about Israel, never deal with this...Romans 9:6-8:
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.”
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.


Now Paul tells us in Galatians 3:16:
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.

They never explain how that works...:confused:


You are the one ignoring clear scripture. Have you made a single comment on how God's call is irrevocable or any of the other obvious points in Romans 11?

Even though you try to divert attention from Rom 11 with Rom 9, I will address that very simple scripture. Not all of the Jewish race will be saved. :doh: That was difficult.

That could have been said 1000 years before Paul wrote it and just as well today. God judges the heart. It even applies to people that call themselves Christian.

Show me how your Rom 9 scripture in any way terminates God's call to the Jewish people. If you are a protestant you should understand we are saved by God's grace. Rom 11 says God will return his grace to the Jewish people.

But, it will not return like in the old days of the supremacy of the nation or the O.T. laws or temple. They will be called to turn from their rejection of Jesus that brought a curse on them in 70AD and continues to bring curses on them until they accept Jesus.


Gal 3:16 that you quote with NO explanation but dare to accuse others of not explaining it. :confused:

It simply means that the ONE that satisfies the requirements of the law was a descendant of Abraham. That would be Jesus. Faith in the promise of Jesus is what brought Abraham salvation just as faith in Jesus now saves us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yeshuasavedme
Upvote 0

Shocker

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
3,175
34
✟3,534.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You are the one ignoring clear scripture. Have you made a single comment on how God's call is irrevocable or any of the other obvious points in Romans 11?

Even though you try to divert attention from Rom 11 with Rom 9, I will address that very simple scripture. Not all of the Jewish race will be saved. :doh: That was difficult.

That could have been said 1000 years before Paul wrote it and just as well today. God judges the heart. It even applies to people that call themselves Christian.

Show me how your Rom 9 scripture in any way terminates God's call to the Jewish people. If you are a protestant you should understand we are saved by God's grace. Rom 11 says God will return his grace to the Jewish people.

But, it will not return like in the old days of the supremacy of the nation or the O.T. laws or temple. They will be called to turn from their rejection of Jesus that brought a curse on them in 70AD and continues to bring curses on them until they accept Jesus.


Gal 3:16 that you quote with NO explanation but dare to accuse others of not explaining it. :confused:

It simply means that the ONE that satisfies the requirements of the law was a descendant of Abraham. That would be Jesus. Faith in the promise of Jesus is what brought Abraham salvation just as faith in Jesus now saves us.

:thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

Notrash

Senior Member
May 5, 2007
2,192
137
In my body
✟10,983.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Romans 11 speaks much on the subject but my favorite verse is 29 as Paul speaks about the future of his Jewish brothers.

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that the too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Also verses 12 and 15 could possibly allude to Jesus 2nd coming and the resurrection soon after the Jews have accepted Jesus.

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?


Of the two witnesses of Revelation 11, if you are one to interpret it symbolically I ask what event would cause the most people of this world to rejoice? I can not think the killing of any two individuals in today's politics could create any such rejoicing. Now a nuclear attack on the U.S. and Israel would destroy the economies and power of those two nations. It would create the biggest rejoicing among the enemies of God.

Remember Satan tried to prevent the fulfillment of prophecy by using King Herod to kill all the baby boys when Jesus was born. Satan will again attack Gods people.


Rev 11:10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

Thid is first century applicable. Some of the then intact house of Israel were to be made jealous through the beæieving , gifts and spiritual fullness of the believers from outside the house of judah. (Rom 10:19)

The still unbelieving were not cast off but could come to faith like Abraham, Issac, Jacob (characterizing Father, Son and indwelling of those entities doctrines) The calling and election was irrevocable to leave the mosaic covt way and into the freedom of justification and freedom by faith They would then and only the no longer be animose towards the freed. The first century "second chance" through jeoalousy unto emulation can be seen in the words "now" in vs 28-32. This jealousy had been prophesied in deut 32:21 or 19.

.
 
Upvote 0

Shocker

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
3,175
34
✟3,534.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thid is first century applicable. Some of the then intact house of Israel were to be made jealous through the beæieving , gifts and spiritual fullness of the believers from outside the house of judah. (Rom 10:19)

The still unbelieving were not cast off but could come to faith like Abraham, Issac, Jacob (characterizing Father, Son and indwelling of those entities doctrines) The calling and election was irrevocable to leave the mosaic covt way and into the freedom of justification and freedom by faith They would then and only the no longer be animose towards the freed. The first century "second chance" through jeoalousy unto emulation can be seen in the words "now" in vs 28-32. This jealousy had been prophesied in deut 32:21 or 19.

.

This will explain what he is talking about.

I think Doug is referring to the two olive trees.

Jews/Gentiles

Why did the Jews fall in 70ad?

Rom 11:11
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

As we can see, God has clearly brought salvation to the heathen, one of the reasons being to provoke the Jews.

But God will not forget them.. Lets continue.

The Jews are the branches of the olive tree.
Rom
11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

But the Jews rejected Christ, and salvation was extended to the Gentiles.
Rom 11:17
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Gentiles/Wild olive tree branches grafted in.


We are not to boast against the Jews, saying they have no salvation and we do.
Rom 11:18
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Rom 11:19
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Rom 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou (Gentiles) standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:


Any Jew who comes to Christ is regrafted into the original olive tree (Abraham)
Rom 11:23
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.


Christians who don't think the Jews can have salvation should not be in disbelief, for God is a God with no limitations and his will be done.
Rom 11:24
For if thou (Gentiles) wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these (Blinded Jews), which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

When the fullness of the Gentiles is realized, blindness will be removed from Israel.
Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Rom 11:26-27

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Amen
 
Upvote 0

ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic
Supporter
Jul 3, 2012
8,998
678
✟187,689.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
You are the one ignoring clear scripture. Have you made a single comment on how God's call is irrevocable or any of the other obvious points in Romans 11?
Because that is not the issue. Romans 9 is stated before Romans 11, therefore you MUST take that into account. The issue is even clear in Romans 11 that Jews and Gentiles are ONE OLIVE TREE.

So what's your point?
Even though you try to divert attention from Rom 11 with Rom 9, I will address that very simple scripture. Not all of the Jewish race will be saved. :doh: That was difficult.

That could have been said 1000 years before Paul wrote it and just as well today. God judges the heart. It even applies to people that call themselves Christian.

Show me how your Rom 9 scripture in any way terminates God's call to the Jewish people. If you are a protestant you should understand we are saved by God's grace. Rom 11 says God will return his grace to the Jewish people.
How about Jesus in Matthew 23:37-39, or Romans 9:25, 26, or Romans 10:21? You want the argument to be about Israel...that's not the argument because Israel is now anyone who comes to Christ regardless of race...OR did you ignore Romans 2:28, 29? Pretty plain there that the TRUE Jew is anyone who comes to Christ! Ever read Colossians 3:3???
But, it will not return like in the old days of the supremacy of the nation or the O.T. laws or temple. They will be called to turn from their rejection of Jesus that brought a curse on them in 70AD and continues to bring curses on them until they accept Jesus.
No one denies that but the point still is WHO is Israel from God's viewpoint?

Gal 3:16 that you quote with NO explanation but dare to accuse others of not explaining it. :confused:
It's pretty simple. Isaac's seed is Jesus Christ, therefore one that comes to Christ IS ABRAHAM'S SEED! The seed is spiritual, NOT fleshly!

It simply means that the ONE that satisfies the requirements of the law was a descendant of Abraham. That would be Jesus. Faith in the promise of Jesus is what brought Abraham salvation just as faith in Jesus now saves us.
So explain what Paul means in Galatians 3:25-29???
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Aijalon

Sayin' it like it is
Jun 4, 2012
964
55
✟17,356.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Because such an idea is a different and abhorrent gospel.


No, far too many things no longer make sense, Paul's epistle to the Ephesians, written to non-believers they now participate in the commonwealth of Israel, there cannot therefore be a distinction between Believing Israel and the Church.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Yes, we must proclaim the Gospel! There is now therefore -NO DISTINCTION- between Jew and Gentile. All must bow the knee to Jesus at the same basic level: genuine faith, nothing more, nothing less.

any 'other' faith is faith that will not save you. There is no Israel of God outside his church. Israel's right to self government was stripped away, and they have a repreive from the demands of the law - PRAISE GOD - under Grace through faith!
 
Upvote 0

Shocker

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
3,175
34
✟3,534.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The Bible teaches that all knees WILL bow.

Many have yet to bow before our Lord Christ Jesus, who is God.

This is a future event, clearly..

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.



If you are not a Christian, you are a OT observing Jew, or a Gentile who believes in false gods, or no god at all.

Neither have salvation without Christ.

If you are a Christian, you are of the seed of Abraham, the term Jew or Gentile no longer applies..

Its really that simple.

That's what the Jews in Israel don't understand, that while they may be descendants of Abraham genetically, they don't actually have a salvific plan in place as we Christians do.

They still worship YHVH, the same God who became flesh, as we know him to be Christ Jesus.

God hears all who call on him even the misguided Jews...
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If you are not a Christian, you are a OT observing Jew, or a Gentile who believes in false gods, or no god at all.

No such thing as an OT observing Jew today.
Today's Jews follow the cult of the Talmud, invented by men between 200 and 500 AD.

They still worship YHVH, the same God who became flesh, as we know him to be Christ Jesus.
And the Muslims worship Allah, the Arabic name of the God of Abraham (just read any Arabic language version of the Holy Bible)... Doesn't mean they are saved.

God hears all who call on him even the misguided Jews...
And by that criteria, even misguided Muslims!

Such is Untenable.
 
Upvote 0

Shocker

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
3,175
34
✟3,534.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No such thing as an OT observing Jew today.
Today's Jews follow the cult of the Talmud, invented by men between 200 and 500 AD.

How do you know this is true?

That's like saying all Christians are Mormons. Clearly not the case.

The Jews in Israel, much like Christianity, have false doctrines that they spread, but by no means constitutes what Judaism is, which is faith in the Mosaic covenant, a faith by works.

And the Muslims worship Allah, the Arabic name of the God of Abraham (just read any Arabic language version of the Holy Bible)... Doesn't mean they are saved.

Muslims don't worship the same God as Christians/Jews

If you read the Quran, Allah has a different character and personality than God YHVH.

Allah is a false God.



And by that criteria, even misguided Muslims!

Such is Untenable.

Muslims are Gentiles who worship a false god.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Because that is not the issue. Romans 9 is stated before Romans 11, therefore you MUST take that into account. The issue is even clear in Romans 11 that Jews and Gentiles are ONE OLIVE TREE.

So what's your point?

Glad to see you have finally offered up an opinion on Rom 11 as simple as it is. There is one tree, but you ignore that the tree has a natural root, broken off branches and grafted in branches.

You ignore this and endlessly reference scripture that says the children of God, aka All Israel is made up of Jews and Gentiles. Spiritually there is no difference. This was a sensitive issue back in Paul's day because there was bigotry by the Jewish Christians on the gentiles. Stop misapplying scripture to repudiate what Rom 11 says.

The saved is clearly made up of Jews and gentiles. The Jews are currently in the remnant stage, hence the calling them disobedient and an obstinate people thus curses have been dispensed on them. This is nothing new to Israel. They have been there before and then God restores his grace to them.

You seem to think you are more deserving of God's grace than Israel. I leave you with the warning not to be guilty of religious bigotry like Paul wrote about, only now you hold yourself superior.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

Present day Israel is a remnant in the waiting. My fear is that it will take a colossal act of destruction for them to turn to God.
 
Upvote 0