Rapture, Prophecy, Church, and the Nation of Israel- Last Generation

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
No such thing as "the rapture", that's a 19th century idea borne out of the imagination of an ex-Irish Anglican priest, John Darby.

Darby picked up on Futureism theology from the jesuit priest Ribera published during the counter reformation. (as a Luthern you should know that, Martin Luther did as it was his teaching that caused Ribera to come up with this lie)

Then Scofield wrote his bible and we now have a big lie that is deceiving the multitudes.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,458
26,890
Pacific Northwest
✟732,295.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Darby picked up on Futureism theology from the jesuit priest Ribera published during the counter reformation. (as a Luthern you should know that, Martin Luther did as it was his teaching that caused Ribera to come up with this lie)

Then Scofield wrote his bible and we now have a big lie that is deceiving the multitudes.

The "as a Lutheran" tactic seems to be common with Adventists.

I'm well aware of the Historicist reading of the Apocalypse and Luther's view that the Papacy was the Antichrist.

But, no, Francisco Ribera didn't come up with Futurism (or Preterism for that matter), but he did employ both in his reading of the Apocalypse in order to defend the Papacy against the charges that it was Antichrist.

What we would today call the Futurist, Preterist, and Historicist views all have antecedents in earlier centuries.

My issue with Darby isn't his Futurism--though I am not a Futurist--it's Dispensationalism specifically.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
But, no, Francisco Ribera didn't come up with Futurism (or Preterism for that matter), but he did employ both in his reading of the Apocalypse in order to defend the Papacy against the charges that it was Antichrist.

Please enlighten me on the origin of Futurism.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
"When He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth... and He will show you things to come" (John 16:13).

Israel became a nation in 1948.

Last generation beginning in 1948?

Will many of those born after 1948 see the Rapture?

Keep in mind the life span of a man in 70 years.

Psalm 90:10 "The days of our years are threescore and ten."


It took Noah 120 years to build the Ark, the Ark is a type and shadow of the Church.

A.J. Tomlinson became leader of the Church in 1903, died in 1943- 40 years as leader. Moses, God's leader of the children in the wilderness- 40 years.

3 - 40 year generations = 120 years

1903 to 2023 = 120 years

A generation is 40 years. (Hebrews 3:9-10)(Numbers 32:13)

No man knows the day or the hour of the Rapture (Matthew 24:36)

NOTE: A day nor the hour has not been noted here as to the Lord's return.



-Some thoughts by Joe Green-

It makes a lot of sense to believe or say those born between 1948 and 1988 will see the Rapture.

It makes a lot of sense to believe or say some over the age of 70 will the see the Rapture.

It is possible we could see the Rapture as early as 2018, do the math, 1948 + 70 = 2018.

It is possible the Rapture will be no later than 2023, do the math, 1903 + 120 years = 2023.

It makes a lot of sense to believe or say we will not know the day nor the hour as to the Lord's return. However, we should know close to the year.

My advice to you Joe is to disregard all the numbers.

I agree with you however they can overpower common thinking and logic.

I would say that those people born in 1948, some of them, maybe just ONE will be that generation which will be alive for the Rapture.

That means someone could live to 100 or more. We can not hold 70 years out there without considering all the ramifications.

The very fact that someone would place a numbered day proves that it will not be that day, or that that person will even be alive to see it.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
What was irrelevant was pointing to the numbers of your denomination. A lot of people being wrong doesn't change the fact that they're wrong. So whether it's one person being wrong or a thousand, it's irrelevant, because it's still wrong.

-CryptoLutheran

I agree!
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Please enlighten me on the origin of Futurism.
Thank God for goggle...........

Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy (500 page) commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You have heard of the early Church,then the middle ages, where the Church went
into apostasy for centuries.Then same Church [early Church of the first century]
started rising again, the Bible calls this the later day Church.

It is apparent that you are listening to and accepting an internet produced religion.

It seems to me that you are also a member of the "Mormon" church. The Bible does not declare a "Latter Day Church". The "Church of LATTER DAY Saints" calls themselves that, but not the Bible my friend.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The later day Church began in1903. Their are right traditions and bad traditions. As to the Rapture read 1Thess. 5:4,
and Heb.10:25.

Yep. Just as I thought. You my friend are a member of the Mormon church.

No disrespect to you my friend, but Mormonism is not Christianity!!!!

It is just that simple.

If you are a Mormon, and I think that you are, please realize that I am not trying to attack you, your character, or the sincerity of your belief. I am sure you are sincere but your denomination is sincerely in-Biblical.

May I tell why Mormonism is not Christian is that it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Here is a basic list of what true Christianity teaches as essential doctrine according to the Bible..........................

  1. There is only one God in all existence (Exodus 20:1-4; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5).
  2. Jesus is divine (John 1:1, 14; 8:24; Col. 2:9)
  3. Forgiveness of sins is by grace alone without works (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 3:28; 4:1-5)
  4. Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; Luke 24:39)
  5. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4)
Mormonism denies that there is only one God in all existence and also denies the forgiveness of sins alone in Christ alone. Therefore, it is outside Christianity. It is not a Christian religion.

This is why your thinking is so mixed up and controversial.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,458
26,890
Pacific Northwest
✟732,295.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Please enlighten me on the origin of Futurism.

Futurist ideas can be found throughout the patristic literature, if you need an example, well okay then.

"And not only by the particulars already mentioned, but also by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that, although a mere slave, he wishes himself to be proclaimed as a king. For he (Antichrist) being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor as a legitimate king, [i.e., one] in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an apostate, iniquitous and murderous; as a robber, concentrating in himself [all] satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade [men] that he himself is God, raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do [now] worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians: "Unless there shall come a failing away first, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he sits in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God." The apostle therefore clearly points out his apostasy, and that he is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped— that is, above every idol — for these are indeed so called by men, but are not [really] gods; and that he will endeavour in a tyrannical manner to set himself forth as God.

Moreover, he (the apostle) has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways, that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God. Now I have shown in the third book, that no one is termed God by the apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord, by whose directions the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed for those purposes which I have already mentioned; in which [temple] the enemy shall sit, endeavouring to show himself as Christ, as the Lord also declares: "But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that reads understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains; and he who is upon the house-top, let him not come down to take anything out of his house: for there shall then be great hardship, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be."
" - St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, ch. 25.1-2

Irenaeus, along with a number of early fathers, were Chiliasts; that is Millennialists who believed in a literal thousand years and who read the Apocalypse and other apocalyptic texts in Scripture to be in reference to a future cataclysmic end with the appearing of a literal, individual Antichrist figure.

As I said, elements of what we call Futurism today can be found throughout the history of the Church.

That said, I'm not a Futurist. I'm not interested in defending Futurism as a hermeneutical approach to the Apocalypse; but I am interested in being truthful; and the truth is that Francisco Ribera didn't come up with Futurism. The Ribera narrative, I've found, is a classic Adventist tale used as part of its built-in dogmatic anti-Catholicism; since anti-Catholicism is a fundamental feature of the Adventist tradition it relies heavily on revisionist history, quote-mining, and outright lies in order to substantiate itself.

And, please, don't use the "Luther believed the Pope was the Antichrist" line. I'm perfectly aware of Luther's thoughts, and I am also well aware of what the Lutheran Confessions state: in condemning the papacy as Antichrist it is not the condemnation of an singular individual, but of the power of the papacy in the 16th century; and that the term "Antichrist" would rightly be ascribed to anything that stands in opposition to the preaching of the Gospel. And if you think what Luther had to say about the papacy was bad, you should see what he thought of the radicals. Even in regard to the rather moderate Reformed theologian Ulrich Zwingli Luther would say, "I'd rather drink pure blood with the Pope than mere wine with the fanatics!"

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Futurist ideas can be found throughout the patristic literature, if you need an example, well okay then.

"And not only by the particulars already mentioned, but also by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that, although a mere slave, he wishes himself to be proclaimed as a king. For he (Antichrist) being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor as a legitimate king, [i.e., one] in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an apostate, iniquitous and murderous; as a robber, concentrating in himself [all] satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade [men] that he himself is God, raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do [now] worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians: "Unless there shall come a failing away first, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he sits in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God." The apostle therefore clearly points out his apostasy, and that he is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped— that is, above every idol — for these are indeed so called by men, but are not [really] gods; and that he will endeavour in a tyrannical manner to set himself forth as God.

Moreover, he (the apostle) has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways, that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God. Now I have shown in the third book, that no one is termed God by the apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord, by whose directions the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed for those purposes which I have already mentioned; in which [temple] the enemy shall sit, endeavouring to show himself as Christ, as the Lord also declares: "But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that reads understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains; and he who is upon the house-top, let him not come down to take anything out of his house: for there shall then be great hardship, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be."
" - St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, ch. 25.1-2

Irenaeus, along with a number of early fathers, were Chiliasts; that is Millennialists who believed in a literal thousand years and who read the Apocalypse and other apocalyptic texts in Scripture to be in reference to a future cataclysmic end with the appearing of a literal, individual Antichrist figure.

As I said, elements of what we call Futurism today can be found throughout the history of the Church.

That said, I'm not a Futurist. I'm not interested in defending Futurism as a hermeneutical approach to the Apocalypse; but I am interested in being truthful; and the truth is that Francisco Ribera didn't come up with Futurism. The Ribera narrative, I've found, is a classic Adventist tale used as part of its built-in dogmatic anti-Catholicism; since anti-Catholicism is a fundamental feature of the Adventist tradition it relies heavily on revisionist history, quote-mining, and outright lies in order to substantiate itself.

And, please, don't use the "Luther believed the Pope was the Antichrist" line. I'm perfectly aware of Luther's thoughts, and I am also well aware of what the Lutheran Confessions state: in condemning the papacy as Antichrist it is not the condemnation of an singular individual, but of the power of the papacy in the 16th century; and that the term "Antichrist" would rightly be ascribed to anything that stands in opposition to the preaching of the Gospel. And if you think what Luther had to say about the papacy was bad, you should see what he thought of the radicals. Even in regard to the rather moderate Reformed theologian Ulrich Zwingli Luther would say, "I'd rather drink pure blood with the Pope than mere wine with the fanatics!"

-CryptoLutheran
I am sure that you are correct. I would only say that the 1st 3 web sites I looked this up on do not agree with you.

From......
http://biblelight.net/antichrist.htm

From......http://www.granddesignexposed.com/futurism.html
The Jesuits Ribera and Lucunza, among others, are responsible for perverting the Word of God.

From....http://www.historicist.com/futurism/the-origin-of-futurism
The former, or futurist system of interpreting the prophecies is now held, strange to say, by many Protestants, but it was first invented by the Jesuit Ribera, at the end of the sixteenth century, to relieve the Papacy from the terrible stigma cast upon it by the Protestant interpretation.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,458
26,890
Pacific Northwest
✟732,295.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I am sure that you are correct. I would only say that the 1st 3 web sites I looked this up on do not agree with you.

From......
http://biblelight.net/antichrist.htm

From......http://www.granddesignexposed.com/futurism.html
The Jesuits Ribera and Lucunza, among others, are responsible for perverting the Word of God.

From....http://www.historicist.com/futurism/the-origin-of-futurism
The former, or futurist system of interpreting the prophecies is now held, strange to say, by many Protestants, but it was first invented by the Jesuit Ribera, at the end of the sixteenth century, to relieve the Papacy from the terrible stigma cast upon it by the Protestant interpretation.

It's easy to find websites that say just about anything. Which is why I was using primary historical sources.

The claim that Ribera "invented" Futurism and Preterism is a popular anti-Catholic narrative within fringe circles of anti-Catholic Protestants, usually Adventists but it exists elsewhere as well.

But the reality is that those ideas we associate with Futurism and Preterism have antecedent throughout the history of the Church; and it's one reason why mainstream, historic Churches such as Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Lutheranism, Anglicanism (et al) do not technically adhere to a particular eschatological hermeneutic; though certain positions are rejected (Hyper-Preterism is flat out rejected as heretical, and Chilianism is likewise considered usually to be suspect).

But the false narrative of a grand Jesuit conspiracy is, just that, a conspiracy; one rooted in historic anti-Catholicism from the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries that is retained today only among certain fringe sects and certain hardline Fundamentalists. It is of the same quality and with the same amount of evidence as claims that there are lizard people who live on the moon.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Futurist ideas can be found throughout the patristic literature, if you need an example, well okay then.

"And not only by the particulars already mentioned, but also by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that, although a mere slave, he wishes himself to be proclaimed as a king. For he (Antichrist) being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor as a legitimate king, [i.e., one] in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an apostate, iniquitous and murderous; as a robber, concentrating in himself [all] satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade [men] that he himself is God, raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do [now] worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians: "Unless there shall come a failing away first, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he sits in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God." The apostle therefore clearly points out his apostasy, and that he is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped— that is, above every idol — for these are indeed so called by men, but are not [really] gods; and that he will endeavour in a tyrannical manner to set himself forth as God.

Moreover, he (the apostle) has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways, that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God. Now I have shown in the third book, that no one is termed God by the apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord, by whose directions the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed for those purposes which I have already mentioned; in which [temple] the enemy shall sit, endeavouring to show himself as Christ, as the Lord also declares: "But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that reads understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains; and he who is upon the house-top, let him not come down to take anything out of his house: for there shall then be great hardship, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be."
" - St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, ch. 25.1-2

Irenaeus, along with a number of early fathers, were Chiliasts; that is Millennialists who believed in a literal thousand years and who read the Apocalypse and other apocalyptic texts in Scripture to be in reference to a future cataclysmic end with the appearing of a literal, individual Antichrist figure.

As I said, elements of what we call Futurism today can be found throughout the history of the Church.

That said, I'm not a Futurist. I'm not interested in defending Futurism as a hermeneutical approach to the Apocalypse; but I am interested in being truthful; and the truth is that Francisco Ribera didn't come up with Futurism. The Ribera narrative, I've found, is a classic Adventist tale used as part of its built-in dogmatic anti-Catholicism; since anti-Catholicism is a fundamental feature of the Adventist tradition it relies heavily on revisionist history, quote-mining, and outright lies in order to substantiate itself.

And, please, don't use the "Luther believed the Pope was the Antichrist" line. I'm perfectly aware of Luther's thoughts, and I am also well aware of what the Lutheran Confessions state: in condemning the papacy as Antichrist it is not the condemnation of an singular individual, but of the power of the papacy in the 16th century; and that the term "Antichrist" would rightly be ascribed to anything that stands in opposition to the preaching of the Gospel. And if you think what Luther had to say about the papacy was bad, you should see what he thought of the radicals. Even in regard to the rather moderate Reformed theologian Ulrich Zwingli Luther would say, "I'd rather drink pure blood with the Pope than mere wine with the fanatics!"

-CryptoLutheran

Thanks for the information. You have proved that the RCC is responsible for the futurism theology and "Rome quickly adopted this viewpoint as the Church’s official position on the Antichrist."

Antichrist[edit]
Irenaeus identified the Antichrist, another name of the apostate Man of Sin, with Daniel's Little Horn and John's Beast of Revelation 13. He sought to apply other expressions to the Antichrist, such as "the abomination of desolation," mentioned by Christ (Matt. 24:15) and the "king of a most fierce countenance," in Gabriel's explanation of the Little Horn of Daniel 8. But he is not very clear how "the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away" during the "half-week," or three and one-half years of the Antichrist's reign.[97][98][99]

Under the notion that the Antichrist, as a single individual, might be of Jewish origin, he fancies that the mention of "Dan," in Jeremiah 8:16, and the omission of that name from those tribes listed in Revelation 7, might indicate the Antichrist's tribe. This surmise became the foundation of a series of subsequent interpretations by others.[100][101]

"Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, answered Papacy’s call. Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, the man of sin, and the beast of Revelation.

He then developed the doctrine of futurism. His explanation was that the prophecies apply only to a single sinister man who will arise up at the end of time. Rome quickly adopted this viewpoint as the Church’s official position on the Antichrist.

In 1590 Ribera published a commentary on the Revelation as a counter interpretation to the prevailing view among Protestants which identified the Papacy with the Antichrist. Ribera applied all of Revelation to the end time rather than to the history of the church. Antichrist, he taught, would be a single evil person who would be received by the Jews and who would rebuild Jerusalem.i"
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,458
26,890
Pacific Northwest
✟732,295.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Thanks for the information. You have proved that the RCC is responsible for the futurism theology and "Rome quickly adopted this viewpoint as the Church’s official position on the Antichrist."

Antichrist[edit]
Irenaeus identified the Antichrist, another name of the apostate Man of Sin, with Daniel's Little Horn and John's Beast of Revelation 13. He sought to apply other expressions to the Antichrist, such as "the abomination of desolation," mentioned by Christ (Matt. 24:15) and the "king of a most fierce countenance," in Gabriel's explanation of the Little Horn of Daniel 8. But he is not very clear how "the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away" during the "half-week," or three and one-half years of the Antichrist's reign.[97][98][99]

Under the notion that the Antichrist, as a single individual, might be of Jewish origin, he fancies that the mention of "Dan," in Jeremiah 8:16, and the omission of that name from those tribes listed in Revelation 7, might indicate the Antichrist's tribe. This surmise became the foundation of a series of subsequent interpretations by others.[100][101]

"Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, answered Papacy’s call. Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, the man of sin, and the beast of Revelation.

He then developed the doctrine of futurism. His explanation was that the prophecies apply only to a single sinister man who will arise up at the end of time. Rome quickly adopted this viewpoint as the Church’s official position on the Antichrist.

In 1590 Ribera published a commentary on the Revelation as a counter interpretation to the prevailing view among Protestants which identified the Papacy with the Antichrist. Ribera applied all of Revelation to the end time rather than to the history of the church. Antichrist, he taught, would be a single evil person who would be received by the Jews and who would rebuild Jerusalem.i"

Explain, exactly, how you conclude that Ribera "invented" Futurism and the idea that the Antichrist would be a single future individual when I just offered Irenaeus' view that the Antichrist would be a single future individual?

Did you somehow fail to see when Iranaeus lived? How, exactly, did Ribera invent these ideas when such things were being mentioned 1,300 years before Ribera?

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Explain, exactly, how you conclude that Ribera "invented" Futurism and the idea that the Antichrist would be a single future individual when I just offered Irenaeus' view that the Antichrist would be a single future individual?

Did you somehow fail to see when Iranaeus lived? How, exactly, did Ribera invent these ideas when such things were being mentioned 1,300 years before Ribera?

-CryptoLutheran

I did not say that Ribera "Invented" this lie, I quoted a statement that he "developed" you have once again inserted a straw man into a conversation.

You with your post have confirmed that the RCC is responsible for the Futurism theology, which is not biblical. You yourself stated that you do not follow this teaching, so you must also believe that it is not Biblical. But you have not come out and called it a Lie.
Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

My counsel to the OP, research what you believe to find out where it comes from before you fall into Satan's trap of teaching a lie.
 
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
There was no apostasy, so your "latter day church" is nonsense.

There was no apostasy
False statement unless you call the killing of millions by the RCC in the dark ages (because they did not follow the RCC teachings but instead followed the word of GOD) righteousness. If that was not apostasy then what was it?

so your "latter day church" is nonsense.

Agree
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,458
26,890
Pacific Northwest
✟732,295.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
False statement unless you call the killing of millions by the RCC in the dark ages (because they did not follow the RCC teachings but instead followed the word of GOD) righteousness. If that was not apostasy then what was it?

I'm quite aware of the revisionist history that Adventists teach. But I have precisely no intention in trying to unpack and address the complicated issue of the middle ages for someone who will insist on believing the false narratives and pseudo-historical teachings of the SDA church. Because there's simply no point.

If you are legitimately interested in learning about medieval history, there are resources available that are based on legitimate scholarship. Then we can have a conversation.

But I've been part of entirely way too many discussions with SDAs over the years in which historical facts are dismissed and rejected because they do not conform to the Adventist dogmatic narrative.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Joe Green

Active Member
Site Supporter
Aug 4, 2016
271
9
73
Oklahoma
✟28,521.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Yep. Just as I thought. You my friend are a member of the Mormon church.

No disrespect to you my friend, but Mormonism is not Christianity!!!!

It is just that simple.

If you are a Mormon, and I think that you are, please realize that I am not trying to attack you, your character, or the sincerity of your belief. I am sure you are sincere but your denomination is sincerely in-Biblical.

May I tell why Mormonism is not Christian is that it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Here is a basic list of what true Christianity teaches as essential doctrine according to the Bible..........................

  1. There is only one God in all existence (Exodus 20:1-4; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5).
  2. Jesus is divine (John 1:1, 14; 8:24; Col. 2:9)
  3. Forgiveness of sins is by grace alone without works (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 3:28; 4:1-5)
  4. Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; Luke 24:39)
  5. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4)
Mormonism denies that there is only one God in all existence and also denies the forgiveness of sins alone in Christ alone. Therefore, it is outside Christianity. It is not a Christian religion.

This is why your thinking is so mixed up and controversial.
I am a member of the, Church of god of Prophecy,not the Mormon Church.
World headquarters, Cleveland TN. I don't know the date the Mormon Church
organized. Over 90% of our membership is in other nations, outside the US.
Church of God of Prophecy, organized in 1903.
 
Upvote 0