Pictures of Jesus.

[Standing Up]

In what way, do you judge, that we do not 'keep the Sabbath'? Because we worship Christ on Sunday, does that mean we don't keep the Sabbath?
That said, the Christian Sabbath is Sunday, the Lord's day, the resurrection day of Jesus.

The Sabbath per definition is sunset our Friday to sunset our Saturday.

Some Christians observe Sunday, however, not because it is a weekly Sabbath redefined, but because it is the day Christ poured out the Spirit. Can that be pictured?

 

[Root of Jesse]

The Sabbath per definition is sunset our Friday to sunset our Saturday.

So you know that all Catholics do not 'keep the Sabbath', eh? Very Pharisaical of you...

Some Christians observe Sunday, however, not because it is a weekly Sabbath redefined, but because it is the day Christ poured out the Spirit. Can that be pictured?

It's not 'some' Christians, it's most, but I'll play. Yes, it is pictured. If you're looking at my post, you can see it, pictured.

 

[Standing Up]

So you know that all Catholics do not 'keep the Sabbath', eh? Very Pharisaical of you...
It's not 'some' Christians, it's most, but I'll play. Yes, it is pictured. If you're looking at my post, you can see it, pictured.

Which picture is Pentecost?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Which picture is Pentecost?

Sorry, I misunderstood your SDA speak. No, Pentecost's picture is fire. Jesus was already in Heaven.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Or, using your logic, the devil could send sincere Christians, with their own special belief, to tear down and destroy those things that helped keep the faith alive for the last two thousand years, and that have been handed down by sacred tradition.

But what if? What if it is all apart of the deception that deceives many self proclaiming Christians today? What if the Antichrist will appear exactly like these images that many churches desire to make Christ out to be? I cannot think of a better deception so as to possibly deceive various believers. For people can easily get caught up by dazzling imagery these days and they do not really look at the facts in regards to the Truth on things.


...

Or what if...

Or, using your logic, the devil could send sincere Christians, with their own special belief, to tear down and destroy those things that helped keep the faith alive for the last two thousand years, and that have been handed down by sacred tradition.

We have to remember that the devil is very clever and he will use any tactics he can to take down believers.


...

Exactly

Too many what ifs.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

But why promote something that could tempt people to think that way? What of those who are not informed? In other words, it would be like serving alcohol at an AA meeting.

...

Context is key. The idols are in reference to not making anything whereby they would bow down and worship it (As if it was a god). For Exodus 20:5 says he is a jealous God. Bowing down before God was many times done in prayer for the believer. Also, the 2nd Commandment is a continuation from the 1st Commandment mentioned in Exodus 20:3.

3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, "


...

It is truly my experience that the Orthodox, Catholic, Confessional Lutheran and devoted, traditional Anglicans are generally the most spiritually "connected" of all Christianity. While Lutherans and Anglicans view "tradition" a bit differently than our Catholic and Orthodox brothers and sisters; tradition is still very important in that it speaks to not only the perpetuity of our Christian faith; but affords great respect to the cloud of witnesses of which Scripture speaks. We are all given gifts; some of us are engineers, some farmers, some doctors, some musicians. For those who have a sense of vocation and dedicate their lives to serving, emulating and even imitating Christ; and that we are all created in God's image; we then become living Icons our selves. The Bible tells us that we are known by the fruits of our labors; some of spoken how we are to be little "Christs".

You talk about promoting something that will lead people astray or cause them to sin.

Have you considered the possibility that you might be doing just that by inflaming the passions of very spiritual people like my friends here and even myself; moving us to anger? I won't lie, when I am before the altar in my Church or viewing the icons and crucifixes on my walls, I am moved to humility and peace. This thread just is not doing that for me.

I have a question; are you insecure in your faith? The reason I ask is that people who are insecure often point out what they view as flaws in others.

Have you noticed that Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran and Anglican members hardly ever start a thread attacking reformed protestant theology; whereas, threads attacking traditional Christian theologies and practices that have been part of the Chruch for two thousand years are quite frequent?

Ecclesiastics says that there is a time for building up and a time for tearing down. There are lots of things in this world trying to tear down the Chruch without having to worry about our Christian brothers and sisters doing that too.

Things have been explained over and over again; you even asked one member "in English Please" when what was posted was clear and concise.

I get it. You truly believe that you know exactly what everyone's motivation is regarding religious art and it's place in worship. Once you accept that fact that you may not, then maybe a real discussion could ensue.

 

[sculleywr]

As I said before, the Commandment was in reference to things created that would be a representation of God or other gods.

...

No. It was in reference to things that would be a REPLACEMENT for God. Not a representation. An Idol is not a representation. It is a replacement. Since the word is Pesel, it is a replacement, not a representation

 

[sculleywr]

Has this been tested with drawings of other people?

...

Read the last sentence he wrote:

Since then, every spring, he puts into the hives icons of the Savior, the Virgin Mary and the Saints, and the result is always the same

 

[sculleywr]

Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father in Heaven.


...

But He was on earth, He is a man, and all men, Jesus included, can be depicted in images. Regardless of physical accuracy, an image is a depiction of the prototype. That is true, also, of Christ. There are a total of ZERO false images of Christ in churches today. Therefore, all your complaints about false images are false.

 

[sculleywr]

Sorry, I don't believe Science has the answer, either. The Bible warns against us using images that would represent God. Unless you were actually present during Jesus's time and seen Him for yourself, then that would be another matter. But even Paul said they (the brethren) do not regard Christ after the flesh anymore. The world judges people by outward appearances. But Jesus says judge not by outward appearances, but rather judge righteously.


....

So you regard Jesus as a Gnostic regards Jesus? We cannot reject the fleshly body of Christ. He is a physical man.

 

[Standing Up]

Sorry, I misunderstood your SDA speak. No, Pentecost's picture is fire. Jesus was already in Heaven.

Not SDA.

 

[Grafted In]

There is one image that is actually an accurate image of Christ and that one image I posted early on this thread. It comes from a pretty reputable source as well....Jesus Christ Himself. At the last supper he pulled out the broken piece of unleavened bread He had broken in half, wrapped in white linen and hidden until the meal was over. He took it out of the white linen, held it up for all to see, broke it into many smaller pieces, offered a piece to each person present, then held up His piece and spoke the words "Take, eat. This is my body".

"And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body." Math. 26:26

Any other image of Him is false. We do not know what He looked like.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So you regard Jesus as a Gnostic regards Jesus? We cannot reject the fleshly body of Christ. He is a physical man.

The Scriptures say Jesus still has a physical body and that will be like that for the rest of eternity. That does mean we can create and or promote false images Him. For nobody knows what He looks like today.

...

 

[prodromos]

Read the last sentence he wrote:

Since then, every spring, he puts into the hives icons of the Savior, the Virgin Mary and the Saints, and the result is always the same

To be fair, I believe he was asking if pictures of non-saints were put in the hives as a control test. I suspect the bee keeper never thought of it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To be fair, I believe he was asking if pictures of non-saints were put in the hives as a control test. I suspect the bee keeper never thought of it.

Did anyone test the painting to see if the area the bees stayed away from had a trace of peppermint or other mild bee repellant?

...

 

[Wgw]

Sorry, I misunderstood your SDA speak. No, Pentecost's picture is fire. Jesus was already in Heaven.

Here is a nice Byzantine icon of Pentecost: https://modeoflife.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/pentecost03.jpg

There are also icons of the Epiphany, the Transfiguration and all other major events commemorated in the liturgical cycle.

 

[Wgw]

It is truly my experience that the Orthodox, Catholic, Confessional Lutheran and devoted, traditional Anglicans are generally the most spiritually "connected" of all Christianity. While Lutherans and Anglicans view "tradition" a bit differently than our Catholic and Orthodox brothers and sisters; tradition is still very important in that it speaks to not only the perpetuity of our Christian faith; but affords great respect to the cloud of witnesses of which Scripture speaks. We are all given gifts; some of us are engineers, some farmers, some doctors, some musicians. For those who have a sense of vocation and dedicate their lives to serving, emulating and even imitating Christ; and that we are all created in God's image; we then become living Icons our selves. The Bible tells us that we are known by the fruits of our labors; some of spoken how we are to be little "Christs".

You talk about promoting something that will lead people astray or cause them to sin.

Have you considered the possibility that you might be doing just that by inflaming the passions of very spiritual people like my friends here and even myself; moving us to anger? I won't lie, when I am before the altar in my Church or viewing the icons and crucifixes on my walls, I am moved to humility and peace. This thread just is not doing that for me.

I have a question; are you insecure in your faith? The reason I ask is that people who are insecure often point out what they view as flaws in others.

Have you noticed that Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran and Anglican members hardly ever start a thread attacking reformed protestant theology; whereas, threads attacking traditional Christian theologies and practices that have been part of the Chruch for two thousand years are quite frequent?

Ecclesiastics says that there is a time for building up and a time for tearing down. There are lots of things in this world trying to tear down the Chruch without having to worry about our Christian brothers and sisters doing that too.

Things have been explained over and over again; you even asked one member "in English Please" when what was posted was clear and concise.

I get it. You truly believe that you know exactly what everyone's motivation is regarding religious art and it's place in worship. Once you accept that fact that you may not, then maybe a real discussion could ensue.

I was in fact tempted to respond to the request for English in a thick North English dialect, like Geordie.

 

[Wgw]

The Scriptures say Jesus still has a physical body and that will be like that for the rest of eternity. That does mean we can create and or promote false images Him. For nobody knows what He looks like today.

...

So now your argument is that He has aged beyond recognition?

Alas that does not square with the idea of incorruptibility.

 

[Wgw]

There is one image that is actually an accurate image of Christ and that one image I posted early on this thread. It comes from a pretty reputable source as well....Jesus Christ Himself. At the last supper he pulled out the broken piece of unleavened bread He had broken in half, wrapped in white linen and hidden until the meal was over. He took it out of the white linen, held it up for all to see, broke it into many smaller pieces, offered a piece to each person present, then held up His piece and spoke the words "Take, eat. This is my body".

"And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body." Math. 26:26

Any other image of Him is false. We do not know what He looked like.

Actually we do; as has been pointed out there are three visually consistent from-life images, and what is more, the unifoed tradition of iconography.

 

[sculleywr]

The Scriptures say Jesus still has a physical body and that will be like that for the rest of eternity. That does mean we can create and or promote false images Him. For nobody knows what He looks like today.

...

They are not false images just because you say they are. Since Scripture DOESN'T say they are false, they are true. Unless you can PROVE they are false, which requires that you be able to read minds and prove your ability to read minds. Is that clear?