Pictures of Jesus.

[Bible Highlighter]

Actually we do know what the Lord looked like thanks to the Image of Edessa, et cetea.

Sorry, I don't believe Science has the answer, either. The Bible warns against us using images that would represent God. Unless you were actually present during Jesus's time and seen Him for yourself, then that would be another matter. But even Paul said they (the brethren) do not regard Christ after the flesh anymore. The world judges people by outward appearances. But Jesus says judge not by outward appearances, but rather judge righteously.


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[Bible Highlighter]

He put in an icon of the crucifixion and the bees completely covered the thief on the left while leaving Jesus and the thief on the right uncovered.

While it is possible it might have been a direct act of God, it is just as equally possible that the devil did this as well so as to get people to continue in their idolatry of such imagery. Remember, Satan appears as an angel of light. In the end times, the Anti-christ will deceive many with false miracles. Besides, nowhere does the Bible ever support the notion that we can create and or look to images that are a representation of God. This is where one has to ignore the warnings in God's Word whereby they would then add to it (their own special belief).

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[Bible Highlighter]

I mean, I always wondered how the Antichrist could deceive even some self proclaiming Christians. Perhaps the abomination of desolations involves false idol imagery of Jesus in the Jewish Temple (Which the Antichrist takes by force). I am not claiming this as 100% fact. But it would not surprise me if such a thing happened indeed.

Will the Antichrist look like the false pictures of Jesus that are being promoted heavily today? Will he use an image of HImself and make people bow down to it? If such were the case, then don't do it. Don't take his mark. Don't believe Him. Jesus returns from the clouds down from out of Heaven and every eye shall see Him.

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[MarkRohfrietsch]

While it is possible it might have been a direct act of God, it is just as equally possible that the devil did this as well so as to get people to continue in their idolatry of such imagery. Remember, Satan appears as an angel of light. In the end times, the Anti-christ will deceive many with false miracles. Besides, nowhere does the Bible ever support the notion that we can create and or look to images that are a representation of God. This is where one has to ignore the warnings in God's Word whereby they would then add to it (their own special belief).

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Or, using your logic, the devil could send sincere Christians, with their own special belief, to tear down and destroy those things that helped keep the faith alive for the last two thousand years, and that have been handed down by sacred tradition.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Or, using your logic, the devil could send sincere Christians, with their own special belief, to tear down and destroy those things that helped keep the faith alive for the last two thousand years, and that have been handed down by tradition.

But what if? What if it is all apart of the deception that deceives many self proclaiming Christians today? What if the Antichrist will appear exactly like these images that many churches desire to make Christ out to be? I cannot think of a better deception so as to possibly deceive various believers. For people can easily get caught up by dazzling imagery these days and they do not really look at the facts in regards to the Truth on things.


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[Bible Highlighter]

We have to remember that the devil is very clever and he will use any tactics he can to take down believers.


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[Elias Lazorus]

One of the Ten Commandments says we are not to make an image of anything up in Heaven. Jesus is at the right hand of God in Heaven. Granted, many Christians are not bowing down to these images, but many of them DO think the popular drawings of Jesus are a representation of Jesus Christ (Who is the One we worship). However, nobody truly knows what Jesus really looked like today. These drawings are only representations of artist's imaginations. It's not truth. It's a promotion of untruth. In other words, there are many Christians who worship and pray to Jesus visualizing in their mind that He looks like a white American or European when in reality he was actually "Semitic" (i.e. Semtic is a word taken from the word "Shem", one of Noah's sons). Semitic people are mid tone in complexion. For Jesus was a Hebrew (i.e. a Jew). He is not a white American / European. Now, there has been a few semitic renditions of Jesus, but again: This would not be an accurate image of Jesus and what he really looks like.

I think it is bad enough that people are making images of him, then they have to make things even worse by erasing His Jewish heritage by making him into a white American or European when he is actually Semitic type person in appearance. So every time someone posts an image of Jesus (Which is usually a white person like myself), I say, "That is not Jesus." We do not know what He actually looks like. So it is my admonishment to all those out there who do posts pictures of Jesus, to stop displaying images of Him as if this was Jesus. Yes, we can read a comic to our kids that might have a comic rendition of Jesus so they can learn the Bible, but it must be explained to them that this is not what Jesus really looks like. What say you?

Yes, I completely agree with you on this one. Of all the tricks and deceptions Satan have pulled on us, I think this was the most clever (no, I'm not admiring him though). I also remember Jesus telling us not to make graven images, so I'm not happy at all when I see sculptures of a nailed "Jesus" on a cross. I don't like it either when people display figurines of saints in their homes. I'm upset that a huge number of believers can't see through this and continue to believe that the Jesus they see on arts and pictures is the actual appearance of Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, I completely agree with you on this one. Of all the tricks and deceptions Satan have pulled on us, I think this was the most clever (no, I'm not admiring him though). I also remember Jesus telling us not to make graven images, so I'm not happy at all when I see sculptures of a nailed "Jesus" on a cross. I don't like it either when people display figurines of saints in their homes. I'm upset that a huge number of believers can't see through this and continue to believe that the Jesus they see on arts and pictures is the actual appearance of Jesus.

Thank you.
And may God bless you greatly.

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[Crowns&Laurels]

I like the Christly expression in this portrait, it's my favorite.

And I wouldn't be going against the Commandment in having it in my home. The Commandment dealt with pagan idolatry.

 

[Wgw]

But what if? What if it is all apart of the deception that deceives many self proclaiming Christians today?

There is no need for "what if" because we have innumerable writings from the Early Church and archaeological evidence that confirms that iconoclasm was a theological depravity that originated in Islam and moved laterally into Judaism,mwhat was left of Manicheanism, and lastly, the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, before being stopped cold by the Studite Monks, St. John of Damascus, et cetera.

"What if" is also a terrible basis for theology, in that theology properly flows from the data of revelation rather than the speculations of theologians. It is the ideal basis for science fiction (or rather what C.S. Lewis preferred to call speculative fiction), but it is a ludicrous proposition for the scholar of theology. If you want us to go down the road of what if, we might just as well adjourn this thread, consume LSD, and begin attempting to duplicate the religious epiphany of Philip K Dick with a pink laser beam from an orbiting satellite transmitting us imagery evocative of Gnosticism.

 

[prodromos]

While it is possible it might have been a direct act of God, it is just as equally possible that the devil did this as well so as to get people to continue in their idolatry of such imagery.

Since there is no idolatry happening with icons, ie. we do not consider icons to be gods, and we certainly don't worship them, it would appear that if this was the work of the evil one, he is doing a pretty miserable job.

 

[Wgw]

Sorry, I don't believe Science has the answer, either. The Bible warns against us using images that would represent God. Unless you were actually present during Jesus's time and seen Him for yourself, then that would be another matter. But even Paul said they (the brethren) do not regard Christ after the flesh anymore. The world judges people by outward appearances. But Jesus says judge not by outward appearances, but rather judge righteously.

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The quotes you provide have naught to do with the question of iconoclasm.

Our Lord also assured us in Matthew 16:18 that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church. We know that iconoclasm was unknown to the Church until after the rise of Islam. We know that after the death of the last iconoclast emperor in the ninth century, there were no Christian iconoclasts until John Calvin.

This fact by itself is enough to condemn the position of soft iconoclasm.

The Synod of Dositheus said "Whosoever shall say the Christians go to Eikons as Gods, let him be Anathema! Anathema! Anathema!" The service or worship of icons as manifestly forbidden by Nicea II, which sets out the theology of iconography, yet which you continue to ignore. You might be more persuasive if you were to actually address Nicea II rather than attacking science, which has the effect of doscrediting you (given that the archaeological evidence has the effect of showing that the early Church and pre-modern Judaism had icons, giving credibility to the idea that iconoclasm is an Islamic conceit, which you have also not addressed).

 

[Wgw]

He put in an icon of the crucifixion and the bees completely covered the thief on the left while leaving Jesus and the thief on the right uncovered.

For those lacking theological erudition it should be noted that the thief on the Left was unrepentent in his blasphemy and thus presumably not saved. This is reflected by the rightward slant of the lower crossbar on the EO cross.

 

[Wgw]

While it is possible it might have been a direct act of God, it is just as equally possible that the devil did this as well so as to get people to continue in their idolatry of such imagery. Remember, Satan appears as an angel of light. In the end times, the Anti-christ will deceive many with false miracles. Besides, nowhere does the Bible ever support the notion that we can create and or look to images that are a representation of God. This is where one has to ignore the warnings in God's Word whereby they would then add to it (their own special belief).

...

The Word of God is the incarnate person of Jesus Christ (John 1:1-14); an icon of the Lord cannot possibly be the subject of demonic activity.

 

[Wgw]

I mean, I always wondered how the Antichrist could deceive even some self proclaiming Christians. Perhaps the abomination of desolations involves false idol imagery of Jesus in the Jewish Temple (Which the Antichrist takes by force). I am not claiming this as 100% fact. But it would not surprise me if such a thing happened indeed.

Will the Antichrist look like the false pictures of Jesus that are being promoted heavily today? Will he use an image of HImself and make people bow down to it? If such were the case, then don't do it. Don't take his mark. Don't believe Him. Jesus returns from the clouds down from out of Heaven and every eye shall see Him.

...

Are you actually accusing the majority of Christians throughout history of being devil worshippers?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There is no need for "what if" because we have innumerable writings from the Early Church and archaeological evidence that confirms that iconoclasm was a theological depravity that originated in Islam and moved laterally into Judaism,mwhat was left of Manicheanism, and lastly, the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, before being stopped cold by the Studite Monks, St. John of Damascus, et cetera.

"What if" is also a terrible basis for theology, in that theology properly flows from the data of revelation rather than the speculations of theologians. It is the ideal basis for science fiction (or rather what C.S. Lewis preferred to call speculative fiction), but it is a ludicrous proposition for the scholar of theology. If you want us to go down the road of what if, we might just as well adjourn this thread, consume LSD, and begin attempting to duplicate the religious epiphany of Philip K Dick with a pink laser beam from an orbiting satellite transmitting us imagery evocative of Gnosticism.

The foundation of my theology is the Word of God. Nowhere is the making of idols of God permitted. "What if" is in reference to Eschatology or the Study of the End Times. Knowing Scripture will help the believer to warn other future believers of any potential danger or schemes cooked up by the devil.

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[Bible Highlighter]

Since there is no idolatry happening with icons, ie. we do not consider icons to be gods, and we certainly don't worship them, it would appear that if this was the work of the evil one, he is doing a pretty miserable job.

Ask if others in your church are picturing Jesus as depicted in popular artwork when they pray and or praise Him.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Are you actually accusing the majority of Christians throughout history of being devil worshippers?

Obviously nobody Christian would willingly worship the devil. I don't think they realize what they are doing is wrong. It is a deception put forth by the devil.

In other words, if the devil appeared in a red costume holding a pitch fork, nobody who is Christian is going to fooled into worshiping such an image.

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[Wgw]

Ask if others in your church are picturing Jesus as depicted in popular artwork when they pray and or praise Him.

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Prodromos does not need to do that because of the positions clearly set out at Nicea II which you continue to ignore; in the Orthodox Church ensuring veneration takes the correct forms is the responsibility of the clergy.

 

[Wgw]

Obviously nobody Christian would willingly worship the devil. I don't think they realize what they are doing is wrong. It is a deception put forth by the devil.

In other words, if the devil appeared in a red costume holding a pitch fork, nobody who is Christian is going to fooled into worshiping such an image.

...

It seems to me then that you are in fact accusing the majority of Christians, indeed all Christians from 900-1520, of accidental devil worship.

I find this to be risible coming from a proponent of a theological error of Islamic origin. It is also essentially blasphemous.