What foreknowledge is according to the Bible.

[Neostarwcc]

In Romans 8:29-30 Paul says:

29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

But what exactly is Paul saying about foreknowledge in this piece of scripture? Is it that God looked down the corridors of time and saw those who would believe and those who wouldn't and he chose those who he foreknew would believe in him? Absolutely not, because if he had looked through the corridors of time there wouldn't have been anybody to be saved. But, we're already debating total depravity in a different thread. I want to cover God's foreknowledge because its a beautiful and wonderful thing.

Another example of foreknowledge would be Genesis 4:1 where Adam "knew" his wife and she conceived and gave birth to Cain. Do you think Adam knew his wife in the English sense? Of course he did! She was his wife and thy lived together for almost 1,000 years how could he have not known who she was! What about John 10:14 as another example when Jesus says "I know my own and my own know me." In the sense of knowledge his statements make no sense. Afterall, of course Jesus knows who his sheep is, he is God and of course his sheep know who Jesus is even the demons know who Jesus Christ is and that he's the messiah. But, its more in the Biblical sense of foreknowledge where it makes complete and total sense.

These are just a few examples of foreknowledge in the Bible, it's actually scattered quite well throughout Biblical history. Now, I don't know ancient Hebrew and Greek but I can say what foreknowledge is in the Bible based on being taught by people who do know ancient Greek and Hebrew. Its not that God foreknew in the sense of knowledge its that he foreknew his children in an incomprehensibly intimate sense. Adam knew his wife in the most intimate way possible, Jesus knows his sheep in the most intimate way possible and his sheep know him in the most intimate way possible. When Jesus says "I never knew you" in Matthew 7:23 for example what he means is he's never had an intimate and close relationship to them. Always when the Bible mentions foreknowledge it means a deep and intimate connection between man and God, or man and wife and this isn't just a normal loving relationship. God loves his sheep and his sheep love God in the deepest and most passionate of ways. Or in the example of Peter saying that Jesus was foreknown before the foundation of the world it means that God knew and deeply loved Jesus from the beginning of time.

 

[Clare73]

GOD'S FOREKNOWLEDGE: (as distinct from man's)

Ac 2:23: "This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge;
and you, with the help of wicked men (Gentiles), put him to death by nailing him to the cross."
Ac 4:28: "They did what your power and will foreordained (beforehand) should happen."
**In these two verses, who determined the events God foreknew would happen to Jesus, man or God?

Is 48:3 - "I foretold the former things long ago, my mouth announced them, I made them known; then suddenly I acted; and they came to pass."
Is 37:26 - "Have you not heard? Long ago I ordained it. In days of old I planned it; now I have brought it to pass."
**In these two verses, who caused the events that God foreknew and foretold would happen, man or God?

Ac 15:18 - "Known to the Lord from all eternity are his works."
God's foreknowledge concerns events that God causes to happen.
And the elect "according to the foreknowledge of God" are elect because God causes (chooses) them to be so for his own purposes, just as he chose Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
God knows in advance what is going to happen because God has willed that it shall happen.
So in the Bible, God's foreknowledge is about what God is going to do, not about what man is going to do.

So "those whom God foreknew" in the Bible means those whom God had chosen to infinitely love and determine their saving destiny in advance.
So that God's foreknowledge of the redeemed is an infinitely loving foreknowledge of them which saves.

In love - God chose to love us, not because of anything in us, not because we were lovable or worthy, but simply because he chose us (Dt 7:7).
God's infinite love for the redeemed is grounded in his goodness, not their goodness. He loves them because he is good, not because they are good.

God's plan, before he ever created anything, was
from the corrupted fallen, hopelessly lost human race, headed for eternal destruction, of which you were a part,
he would save you . .(some, but not all).
So God chose us from all eternity before time ever began.

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you," (John 15:16).

 

[BBAS 64]

Good day,

In that Text it is a verb it is something god does....

Thayer Definition:
1) to have knowledge before hand
2) to foreknow
2a) of those whom God elected to salvation
3) to predestinate
Part of Speech: verb

I never knew you.....

 

[BNR32FAN]

Absolutely not, because if he had looked through the corridors of time there wouldn't have been anybody to be saved.

Why would do you think that God would’ve foreseen that nobody would be saved? You made the claim but didn’t provide any explanation or evidence to support it.

 

[Clare73]

Why would do you think that God would’ve foreseen that nobody would be saved? You made the claim but didn’t provide any explanation or evidence to support it.

Man left on his own inventions could not save himself.
Salvation belongs to God alone (Rev 7:10), so that no one can boast (Ro 3:27, 4:2, 1 Co 1:29, Eph 2:9).

 

[BNR32FAN]

Man left on his own inventions could not save himself.
Salvation belongs to God alone (Rev 7:10), so that no one can boast (Ro 3:27, 4:2, 1 Co 1:29, Eph 2:9).

The statement I was replying to was made in reference to total depravity not self justification.

Is it that God looked down the corridors of time and saw those who would believe and those who wouldn't and he chose those who he foreknew would believe in him? Absolutely not, because if he had looked through the corridors of time there wouldn't have been anybody to be saved.

He’s saying that no one would be able to believe not that we can’t atone for our own sins. Those are two completely different scenarios.

 

[KevinT]

My pastor's most recent sermon was on this point. Here are my thoughts:

In Greek philosophy, there were the Fates, three sisters that spun out the thread of everyone's destiny. In the play Oedipus Rex, the titular Oedipus was prophesied that he would kill his father and marry his mother. Horrified, he does everything he can to avoid this. He flees his home at a young age, and thereby later doesn't recognize his parents and slays his father and marries his mother inadvertently. Thus the act of trying to avoid his destiny in fact caused it. I think this is messed up and this meaning of "destiny" has poisoned popular thinking ever since. Applying this way of thinking to our true, Christian, God would be to imagine a man does everything he can to follow God's love, to accept Christ as his savior, to treat his fellow man kindly, only to be ultimately be lost because it was contrary to the "destiny" God had assigned previously. I also abhor such an interpretation.

I think there can sometimes be an unavoidable destiny however. I imagine some people enjoying a happy outing at the beach. Unknown to them, an earthquake over the horizon has triggered a tidal wave which is rushing at them, and which will ultimately destroy them. At some point in their life path, there destruction became sadly assured. No one wanted it, and the hypothetical government had even sounded an emergency signal of the radio stations to warn everyone. But they weren't listening to the radio and were swept away. These people, from the moment they decided to go to the beach, they were "destined" for destruction. And if one were to ascribe to God all the acts of God's nature, then one could say that God "destined" them for destruction. But would anyone thing that God wanted them to be destroyed? Absolutely not!

I'm going to be very controversial here and state that when Paul wrote these texts about predestination, that he was writing from his understanding of how God's government works. But it not the same as, for example, if Jesus has said how God works. Paul was God's chosen messenger to the Gentiles, but that doesn't mean that every single word he said or wrote is true for all time and space. I suspect I will be criticized for this view.

My pastor's main point in his sermon is that God is actively working to save everyone. He is thus giving us all a "destiny" of salvation. I thought it stretched Paul's meaning a bit far but I liked his intent.

Kevin