Philosophy 201 and God.

[Bluelion]

well then If God can not sin then He really was not tempted in the wilderness, But we are told He was led to be tempted, tempted to do what sin. So God even said He could sin. Nothing I said has ever gone against God's word. God find sin so disgusting he could never bring Him self to do it. So take it up with God. I believe God when He said all things are possible with Him.

 

[Bluelion]

You're right. He is bound by himself. For God to be bound by himself is not to be boundless, because that would be the same as saying that God does not exist. If God is bound by himself, and if he exists, then God is not boundless. Your assertion is especially interesting, because if God is bound by the laws of logic, namely by the law of non-contradiction, then it implies that God is the very law that binds himself, part of which is the rule of logical principles. The pursuit of sound logic, then, would be a pursuit of a deeper understanding of God. Non-contradiction is not merely a thing created by God, but it strikes at the very essence of who God is. God does not directly contradict himself.

Same teacher said God can not be in more than one place at once, It is simple the place He is in is everywhere that is his one place. But one place is that one place every where is many place. That is a contradiction, so much for that law eh, so man can break it not God.

WHen I say God is bond by Him self i don't mean there are things he can not do, but rather He will not do. He does not do it because it is His will. But all powerful means everything in His power. You can not say something is out of God's power and still say God is all powerful. That is a contradiction.

 

[royal priest]

The point of that verse is not that all things are possible for God to do, as much as it is: with God all things are possible for men to do ie. the rich man's deliverance from the love of money.

 

[Bluelion]

The point of that verse is not that all things are possible for God to do, as much as it is: with God all things are possible for men to do ie. the rich man's deliverance from the love of money.[/

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

WHen I say God is bond by Him self i don't mean there are things he can not do, but rather He will not do. He does not do it because it is His will. But all powerful means everything in His power. You can not say something is out of God's power and still say God is all powerful. That is a contradiction.

I don't disagree with you in the slightest. I just know that people get confused when they try to understand God from a human perspective. When we say that there are things that God does not do because it is not his will to do it, we think of fickle human will, which seems inevitably to change. God does not change. If he wills not to do it, then he will always will not to do it. Really, there is no difference between God being bound by himself, versus God being totally free and choosing to follow certain rules. I think we can both agree that there is no higher law than God, that no law apart from him binds him. We can also agree that God is consistent, eternal and unchanging. Therefore, if God does not sin, then it is both because he happens not to want to at that moment, and because he is bound by his own eternal unchanging nature. There is no difference at all between his rules for governing himself and his spontaneous desires. The two are the same. In other words, to say that God cannot sin is exactly the same as saying that God chooses not sin.

I believe that no universe contains God, except God, himself. No rule binds God, except God himself. He is not undefined, unruly or amorphous. He has his limits, and he is his limits. I really don't think anyone here disagrees with that. Some might misunderstand it, or misstate it, but I don't think anyone really disagrees with it.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

The Law of Non-contradiction is one of the first principles of logic which is a branch of philosophy. It states that a thing cannot be and not be at the same time in the same respect. An example would be a statement that a dog is a dog and then to say that a dog is not a dog. Both statements cannot be true. A dog cannot be a dog and not be a dog at the same time and in the same respect.
In the same respect is very important to understand the law of non-contradiction. A dog can be a living dog and a dead dog but it cannot be both at the same time. That is a contradiction because the dog can't be alive, one respect, and dead, another respect, at the same time.

But there are some things that are subjective. Is my wife the most beautiful woman in the world? Is the USA the greatest nation on earth? Is my theology better than yours?

 

[twin1954]

But there are some things that are subjective. Is my wife the most beautiful woman in the world? Is the USA the greatest nation on earth? Is my theology better than yours?

While there are some things that are subjective the three that you give actually can be established as factual objective truths or errors. You could establish that your wife is the most beautiful woman in the world by actually comparing her beauty to every woman in the world. The other two statements can also be established as fact or falsehoods if we went to the trouble to actually objectively get the facts.

 

[Hammster]

If it's possible for God to lie, then He did when Jesus said He is the truth. At best He could say that He tells the truth. He could not say that He is the truth because it's no longer part of His nature, but a decision. And the OP, to be consistent, would have to say that God can say something that is true and a lie at the same time.

 

[Dan61861]

God cannot lie, it is not that He chooses not to lie, He cannot lie! With man, sin begins with a thought. The thought enters our mind, we react to it, we sin. The thought never enters the Lord's mind, He cannot lie. Unrighteousness cannot be found in God, His thoughts, His actions, His being is righteous and holy!

In Christ
Daniel

 

[OzSpen]

You make great points is turning a river to blood any more difficult than making a camel pass through and eye of a needle? Is the miracles of Is grace to hard for God? I think my teacher gives excuses for his lack of faith.

Bluelion,

Matt 19:23-24 (ESV) states:

And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

Jesus is drawing an analogy. The interpretation seems to be that it is impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, just like it is impossible for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. The inference seems to be that the hump and size of the camel prevent it from going through a needle (we are not told exactly what that needle is), just as it is impossible for those who allow riches to dominate their lives, to enter God's kingdom.

Oz

 

[Hammster]

Bluelion,

Matt 19:23-24 (ESV) states:


Jesus is drawing an analogy. The interpretation seems to be that it is impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, just like it is impossible for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. The inference seems to be that the hump and size of the camel prevent it from going through a needle (we are not told exactly what that needle is), just as it is impossible for those who allow riches to dominate their lives, to enter God's kingdom.

Oz

Now you've changed what Jesus said. He didn't say that it's impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom.

 

[royal priest]

He didn't say that it's impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom.

actually, that's Jesus' point.

 

[Hammster]

actually, that's Jesus' point.

No. He just said it's harder, not impossible.

 

[royal priest]

what's impossible for men (lovers of money in the context) is possible

No. He just said it's harder, not impossible.

It's a matter of speaking to fit the illustration. First a ridiculous question, "Is it possible for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle?" Then a more ridiculous statement to make his point, "It's less possible for men to enter the kingdom of Heaven."
The act of a man bringing himself into Heaven is even more impossible than impossible.

 

[Hammster]

what's impossible for men (lovers of money in the context) is possible

It's a matter of speaking to fit the illustration. First a ridiculous question, "Is it possible for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle?" Then a more ridiculous statement to make his point, "It's less possible for men to enter the kingdom of Heaven."
The act of a man bringing himself into Heaven is even more impossible than impossible.

And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[twin1954]

what's impossible for men (lovers of money in the context) is possible

It's a matter of speaking to fit the illustration. First a ridiculous question, "Is it possible for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle?" Then a more ridiculous statement to make his point, "It's less possible for men to enter the kingdom of Heaven."
The act of a man bringing himself into Heaven is even more impossible than impossible.

With men it is impossible. The illustration is to show the impossibility of man being able to come to Christ apart from the work of God. With God all things are possible. This illustrates that it takes a work of God in and for the sinner, a work of miraculous grace and love, before he can ever come to Christ in faith. While the illustration is specific to the rich young ruler in its context it is meant to illustrate the impossibility of man to give up his sin and come to Christ.

 

[twin1954]

Here is the passage and Hammster is correct.

(Mat 19:23) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

(Mat 19:24) And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

(Mat 19:25) When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?


(Mat 19:26) But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[Bluelion]

Bluelion,

Matt 19:23-24 (ESV) states:


Jesus is drawing an analogy. The interpretation seems to be that it is impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, just like it is impossible for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. The inference seems to be that the hump and size of the camel prevent it from going through a needle (we are not told exactly what that needle is), just as it is impossible for those who allow riches to dominate their lives, to enter God's kingdom.

Oz

Thanks for your input Oz always a joy. There is a little more to it than that, the disciples then became scared and said Lord how will any one enter Heaven and He said with man it is impossible but with God all things are possible. I guess some people think I am a fool because i take God for His word. It really comes down to what Paul said the problem was those weak in faith condemn the strong in faith and the strong in faith often cause the weak to stumble.

In this thread i have been accused of claiming to be smarter than my teacher, yet I never question my teachers intelligence but His faith. It is funny how people read what they want to into an argument which is academic and turn it into a person argument full of emotion jealousy and hate, That is why I left Oz and was not here when you responded.

 

[OzSpen]

Thanks for your input Oz always a joy. There is a little more to it than that, the disciples then became scared and said Lord how will any one enter Heaven and He said with man it is impossible but with God all things are possible. I guess some people think I am a fool because i take God for His word. It really comes down to what Paul said the problem was those weak in faith condemn the strong in faith and the strong in faith often cause the weak to stumble.

In this thread i have been accused of claiming to be smarter than my teacher, yet I never question my teachers intelligence but His faith. It is funny how people read what they want to into an argument which is academic and turn it into a person argument full of emotion jealousy and hate, That is why I left Oz and was not here when you responded.

There's also a certain amount of dislike of one's position by some and this sometimes becomes quite pointed in the manner of objections.

 

[twin1954]

Taking God at His Word is much more than viewing each sentence uttered as though it can stand alone. It involves understanding and comparing Scripture with Scripture. No single verse stands alone especially in matters of doctrine and practice. That seems to be a real problem in this generation. People are taught snipits of Scriptures and doctrine as though verses stand alone and do not need to be compared with the teaching of the whole of the Scriptures. Folk's theology is founded on a few verses instead of the whole of the Scriptures and what God says about Himself. When we say that nothing is impossible with God we must understand that saying through the teaching of the whole of the Scriptures that tell us that God cannot change, He cannot deny Himself, He cannot be unrighteous, He cannot learn, He cannot be more or less than what He is and many other things that are impossible for God if He is to be truly God. If any of those things were possible for God then He is not much more than a weak human and cannot really be trusted or be worthy of worship.

When the passage says that all things are possible with God we don't need to run to extreme views but take the context of the passage to mean that it is only possible for God to save man. Man cannot save himself but it is possible for God to do so.

Any other doctrine being implied in the statement is going off the deep end and making Scripture say what it does not say.