Philosophy 201 and God.

[Bluelion]

So I am taking a Philosophy class, which is very hard but the teacher is a Christian and the books are all written from a Christian perspective. We have 5 text books for the class. We just finished with one of the text books and in it the author, my teacher, made the statement about Laws of Philosophy being absolute. One such law is the Law of contradiction. Two thinks can not be in opposites. The author made the statement God can not exist and not exist at the same time, He then said God spoke of a camel passing through the eye of a needle and said all things are possible with God but He did not mean that. God could not pass a camel through the eye of a needle. He then goes on to say a person can not be in a room and outside the room at the same time, and this is the problem with Christian philosophers. God can be in two places at once. God can pass a camel through the eye of a needle, how I do not know but He could. If God chose He could exist and not at the same time. God is an all powerful God. That means there is no end to His power. To suggest there is limits on God's power, is to take away the all powerful part. So at best this teacher who says how much he respects the Bible has very limited faith in God, why? Because he like scientist rely on his own knowledge and understanding. This is not what God teaches. God teaches have faith in me as a child. How does a child look at their father? Like He is superman, he is the strongest smartest most successful man alive. No imagine if had that kind of faith with God. Why we could move mountains as God said. There is more wisdom in a child then most men walking the earth today.

My son was talking about Jesus the other day. he said Jesus is the strongest person alive. I said yes. He said there is nothing he can not do, wow. He can do anything, wow. He knows everything, wow. I said yes son. He said and He loves me. I said yes he does.

 

[royal priest]

He is God. He created everything and sustains everything. All of nature is at His disposal to declare His glory and show forth His praise. Both in natural and supernatural (miracles).He has parted seas and rivers, changed the course of the sun, turned rivers into blood, raised the dead, turned water into wine. The greatest miracle is His mercy to men who supress the truth in unrighteousness and making them new creatures in Christ Jesus.

 

[twin1954]

The Law of Non-contradiction is one of the first principles of logic which is a branch of philosophy. It states that a thing cannot be and not be at the same time in the same respect. An example would be a statement that a dog is a dog and then to say that a dog is not a dog. Both statements cannot be true. A dog cannot be a dog and not be a dog at the same time and in the same respect.
In the same respect is very important to understand the law of non-contradiction. A dog can be a living dog and a dead dog but it cannot be both at the same time. That is a contradiction because the dog can't be alive, one respect, and dead, another respect, at the same time.

 

[Bluelion]

He is God. He created everything and sustains everything. All of nature is at His disposal to declare His glory and show forth His praise. Both in natural and supernatural (miracles).He has parted seas and rivers, changed the course of the sun, turned rivers into blood, raised the dead, turned water into wine. The greatest miracle is His mercy to men who supress the truth in unrighteousness and making them new creatures in Christ Jesus.

You make great points is turning a river to blood any more difficult than making a camel pass through and eye of a needle? Is the miracles of Is grace to hard for God? I think my teacher gives excuses for his lack of faith.

 

[twin1954]

There are things that God cannot do. He cannot lie, He cannot be unrighteous, He cannot be unjust, He cannot deny Himself and He cannot go back on His Word. If He were to do any of these things He would cease to be God. The lesson of non-contradiction concerning God is that He cannot be God and not be God at the same time in the same respect. Either He is God or He isn't. God is logical and all logic is based in the truth of God. Philosophy which is not based in the truth of God is nothing but a notion and assumption founded in illogical premises.

 

[Job8]

PRINCIPLE #1 OF PHILOSOPHY
Philosophy is in conflict with Divine Revelation

PRINCIPLE #2 OF PHILOSOPHY
Philosophy is the product of the natural mind without the help of the Holy Spirit

PRINCIPLE #3 OF PHILOSOPHY
By definition, philosophy (phileo + sophia) is the love of human wisdom.

So study Philosophy all you want, but be aware that it is devoid of Divine truth. Proof?
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. (1 Cor 2:4,5).

 

[Hammster]

God cannot exist and not exist. To think otherwise is not logical.

 

[mikedsjr]

Job8, I think you are making more out of philosophy than should. Philosophy is absolutely a valid study for Christians. One needs to realize even philosophy has their liberal minded Religious folks.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

PRINCIPLE #1 OF PHILOSOPHY
Philosophy is in conflict with Divine Revelation

Not if it's true. If they are in conflict, then either the philosophy is logically flawed or the revelation is not really divine. To reject the laws of logic in the pursuit of truth is to attempt to understand wisdom with an insane mind.

 

[Bluelion]

Job8, I think you are making more out of philosophy than should. Philosophy is absolutely a valid study for Christians. One needs to realize even philosophy has their liberal minded Religious folks.

I never said it was invalid.

 

[Bluelion]

God cannot exist and not exist. To think otherwise is not logical.

Rivers turning to blood is not logical.

 

[Job8]

Not if it's true. If they are in conflict, then either the philosophy is logically flawed or the revelation is not really divine. To reject the laws of logic in the pursuit of truth is to attempt to understand wisdom with an insane mind.

Human logic ("wisdom") cannot grasp or explain the Divine and the supernatural. And the natural man DOES NOT receive the things of the Spirit -- THEY ARE FOOLISHNESS TO HIM. Please note carefully (1 Cor 1:18-29 KJV):

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:[PHILOSOPHY]

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen,yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

 

[royal priest]

If the truth is not logical then it was pointless for Jesus to reason with Nicodemus, and Paul to speak at Mars Hill. The Gospel is an appeal to logic. (Isaiah 1:18-19)

 

[Bluelion]

If the truth is not logical then it was pointless for Jesus to reason with Nicodemus, and Paul to speak at Mars Hill. The Gospel is an appeal to logic. (Isaiah 1:18-19)

so your saying a river turning to blood is logical?

 

[Soyeong]

So I am taking a Philosophy class, which is very hard but the teacher is a Christian and the books are all written from a Christian perspective. We have 5 text books for the class. We just finished with one of the text books and in it the author, my teacher, made the statement about Laws of Philosophy being absolute. One such law is the Law of contradiction. Two thinks can not be in opposites. The author made the statement God can not exist and not exist at the same time, He then said God spoke of a camel passing through the eye of a needle and said all things are possible with God but He did not mean that. God could not pass a camel through the eye of a needle. He then goes on to say a person can not be in a room and outside the room at the same time, and this is the problem with Christian philosophers. God can be in two places at once. God can pass a camel through the eye of a needle, how I do not know but He could. If God chose He could exist and not at the same time. God is an all powerful God. That means there is no end to His power. To suggest there is limits on God's power, is to take away the all powerful part. So at best this teacher who says how much he respects the Bible has very limited faith in God, why? Because he like scientist rely on his own knowledge and understanding. This is not what God teaches. God teaches have faith in me as a child. How does a child look at their father? Like He is superman, he is the strongest smartest most successful man alive. No imagine if had that kind of faith with God. Why we could move mountains as God said. There is more wisdom in a child then most men walking the earth today.

My son was talking about Jesus the other day. he said Jesus is the strongest person alive. I said yes. He said there is nothing he can not do, wow. He can do anything, wow. He knows everything, wow. I said yes son. He said and He loves me. I said yes he does.

Law of Identity: A thing, A, is what it is.

Law of Non-Contradiction: A thing, A, cannot at once be and not be at the same time and in the same respect.

Law of Excluded Middle: A thing, A, is or is not, but is not both or neither.

Basic Definition of Truth: To say what is is and what is not is not is truth.

Principle of Sufficient Reason: Of everything that is, it can be found a reason why it is.

Principle of Causality: If something has a beginning or can cease to be, then it has a cause.

These are rules of thought that cannot be dismissed without relying on what you are trying to dismiss.

When Jesus spoke about a camel passing through the eye of a needle, he was using hyperbole. To say that God is omnipotent is that to say that God can do anything, but that God can do anything that is possible to do with power. God is logical by nature and He cannot violate His nature.

 

[mikedsjr]

I never said it was invalid.

I was speaking to Job8

 

[Hammster]

Rivers turning to blood is not logical.

No, rivers being blood and not blood at the same time is illogical. That's the law of non-contradiction.

 

[royal priest]

so your saying a river turning to blood is logical?

It is logical and it is reasonable because it can be rationalized. God is such a Creator that He made everything out of nothing. He created the laws of order and is therefore not bound by them. He created all things for the demonstration of His power, wisdom, goodness, etc. The communication of His being supersedes the necessity that the created order remain unaffected by supernatural occurances. Therefore, God breaks into the created order to demonstrate His will and superintendence over His creation by works which defy the natural order of things.

 

[Hammster]

so your saying a river turning to blood is logical?

You may be mistaking unnatural with illogical.

 

[Bluelion]

Law of Identity: A thing, A, is what it is.

Law of Non-Contradiction: A thing, A, cannot at once be and not be at the same time and in the same respect.

Law of Excluded Middle: A thing, A, is or is not, but is not both or neither.

Basic Definition of Truth: To say what is is and what is not is not is truth.

Principle of Sufficient Reason: Of everything that is, it can be found a reason why it is.

Principle of Causality: If something has a beginning or can cease to be, then it has a cause.

These are rules of thought that cannot be dismissed without relying on what you are trying to dismiss.

When Jesus spoke about a camel passing through the eye of a needle, he was using hyperbole. To say that God is omnipotent is that to say that God can do anything, but that God can do anything that is possible to do with power. God is logical by nature and He cannot violate His nature.

Really show me where in the Bible it says God is logical by nature? I know it says God is Love, Love by its nature is not logical. People fall in love with who they do, logic would say that a person should fall in love with some one like them that they are sexually attracted to, but this is not the case. Logic would say if you can fall in love you can fall out of it, Yet God does not fall out of love with us once we accept him. Marriages is meant to be forever, but if it was logica and a person could fall out of love then divorce should also be allowed.

You stated God can only do what is in His power, so you define God as being limited by His power, but God is all powerful, so nothing is out of His power.

Thanks But I will take Jesus word for it that all things are possible with God, and thanks I have read the text book also.