once saved always saved?

[nobdysfool]

The one thing that is never mentioned, and yet is key to the security of the believer, is intimacy with God. If one is intimate with God, as David demonstrated in the Psalms, and as Jesus Himself demonstrated in His Earthly ministry, the whole issue of eternal security basically vanishes. Good works doesn't indicate intimacy, it is being presented here as an outward show for other men to judge. If one is intimate with God, they will not be out sinning, and trying to see how far they can push it.

The problem with the stress on works is, it is hard to be intimate with someone who might cut you off at any moment. One cannot be afraid of someone and intimate with them at the same time. Some here are presenting good works as the only means to ensure salvation, and keep saved, and the outworking of that is a lot of busywork, effort expended, and worry about it being enough, that there is no time to become intimate with God, and in so doing, develop the trust that one needs in order to be intimate. The emphasis on good works breeds mistrust, which short-circuits intimacy right away.

The over-emphasis of good works, and the constant warnings from some here, can actually have the effect of driving people away, and causing them needless worry about the status of their salvation. It's not that works are not a part of salvation, but works are the natural evidence of salvation and never, ever its cause. Intimacy with God will produce works that reflect that intimacy, because they are inspired by Him, and the believer joyfully does them because he is intimate with God, and never does them in order to gain intimacy, which works can never do.

And EmSw, quit brow-beating those you think you have backed into a corner. Your attitude toward Marvin (and myself for that matter) is one of a bully, demanding that the adversary cry "uncle". I don't respond to an attitude like that, there is no prize to win here for being "correct". Quite frankly, you ain't all that, with or without the bag of chips. It is laughable for you to be pounding on marvin, when you don't even believe that we are saved by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

 

[Marvin Knox]

You didn't answer the question. What is the difference in 'keep you saved' and 'save you'?

Are you kidding me?

The scriptures speak of believers as having been saved.

The idea of being saved once and then losing that salvation for whatever reason (the title of this thread and the question posed in the OP) touches on the question of how you can lose that salvation and not "keep" it.

Perhaps you are denying that the scriptures talk about salvation in the past tense for the believers being addressed. If you are doing that I can't help you. You'll just have to get into the Word yourself.

I didn't address my original post to you. I addressed it to the OP.

Reading these last two posts of yours reminds me of my opinion from quite a few other threads that you often make no sense. I don't believe you are really hitting on all cylinders.

 

[EmSw]

The one thing that is never mentioned, and yet is key to the security of the believer, is intimacy with God. If one is intimate with God, as David demonstrated in the Psalms, and as Jesus Himself demonstrated in His Earthly ministry, the whole issue of eternal security basically vanishes. Good works doesn't indicate intimacy, it is being presented here as an outward show for other men to judge. If one is intimate with God, they will not be out sinning, and trying to see how far they can push it.

NF, what is intimacy with God?

Do evil works indicate intimacy?

Why don't good works indicate intimacy? If one loves Jesus, he keeps His commandments.

How can one be intimate with God and not keep His commandments?

1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If one does not keep His commandments, he does not know Him, but is a liar, and the truth is NOT in him. So, please explain how one can be intimate with God without knowing Him, that is, without keeping His commandments.

1 Chronicles 28
9 “As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.

Here is what David told Solomon, to know God and serve Him with a loyal heart and willing mind. Why? Because God searches all hearts and understands every intention of the heart. One can say they know God, but He searches the heart to see if it is loyal, to see every intention.

Then David told Solomon to SEEK HIM. Imagine that. Didn't David know that no one seeks God? David sure wasn't a Reformed believer. And to top it off, David said, 'if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever'. Here David puts it in stone that he is not a Reformed believer. Can you imagine David saying God will cast you off forever?

How can one have an intimate relationship with God if he has in the back of his mind that God can cast him off forever? David should have never told Solomon that, for, as you said below, 'it is hard to be intimate with someone who might cut you off at any moment'.

The problem with the stress on works is, it is hard to be intimate with someone who might cut you off at any moment. One cannot be afraid of someone and intimate with them at the same time. Some here are presenting good works as the only means to ensure salvation, and keep saved, and the outworking of that is a lot of busywork, effort expended, and worry about it being enough, that there is no time to become intimate with God, and in so doing, develop the trust that one needs in order to be intimate. The emphasis on good works breeds mistrust, which short-circuits intimacy right away.

Good works breeds mistrust??? This makes two quotes you've given which make no sense at all. According to you, the sheep in Matthew 25 couldn't trust Jesus, because of their good works.

The over-emphasis of good works, and the constant warnings from some here, can actually have the effect of driving people away, and causing them needless worry about the status of their salvation. It's not that works are not a part of salvation, but works are the natural evidence of salvation and never, ever its cause. Intimacy with God will produce works that reflect that intimacy, because they are inspired by Him, and the believer joyfully does them because he is intimate with God, and never does them in order to gain intimacy, which works can never do.

If people are driven away from Jesus because of good works, then they do not love Him, and believe evil works are all they need.

Those who keep (good works) His commandments are the ones that love Him. And love is the ultimate of intimacy. You have it backwards.

And EmSw, quit brow-beating those you think you have backed into a corner. Your attitude toward Marvin (and myself for that matter) is one of a bully, demanding that the adversary cry "uncle". I don't respond to an attitude like that, there is no prize to win here for being "correct". Quite frankly, you ain't all that, with or without the bag of chips. It is laughable for you to be pounding on marvin, when you don't even believe that we are saved by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

How is God's predestination for you working out? Maybe you should tell God how awful you are being treated, and you don't like His predestined plan for you.

 

[EmSw]

Are you kidding me?

The scriptures speak of believers as having been saved.

The idea of being saved once and then losing that salvation for whatever reason (the title of this thread and the question posed in the OP) touches on the question of how you can lose that salvation and not "keep" it.

No Marvin, I am not kidding! I'm not here to play games.

I gave NF a reason for losing one's salvation. I will repeat it here just for you.

1 Chronicles 28:9
“As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.

Did you read that Marvin? 'if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever'.

Did you notice it was conditional upon man? David said, 'If you seek Him, He WILL be found by you; BUT (notice the but here) if you forsake Him (by not seeking Him), HE WILL CAST YOU OFF FOREVER.' Casting you off forever, is most definitely losing your salvation.

Perhaps you are denying that the scriptures talk about salvation in the past tense for the believers being addressed. If you are doing that I can't help you. You'll just have to get into the Word yourself.

I have never denied that. I just gave you the Word in 1 Chronicles 28; will you deny what it says?

I didn't address my original post to you. I addressed it to the OP.

Reading these last two posts of yours reminds me of my opinion from quite a few other threads that you often make no sense. I don't believe you are really hitting on all cylinders.

Marvin, I run on 12 cylinders, and I am hitting on them all.

Speaking of not making sense, do you also believe good works breeds mistrust?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"It matters quite a bit to those who don't understand or like grace.

It seems to really grind people to think that someone can get saved, then be a rebellious child of God and still live with Him forever.

Well, such people simply need to "get over it". God's grace trumps all the hangups people have about eternal security.

Jesus told us that to whose whom He has given eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

Why do some reject His words?"

Be a rebellious child? Really FG2? No, we are not getting over it!

Those who do undestand God's matchless grace have "gotten over it".

You know nothing of grace if you think you can live in darkness, obey sin, and live as you desire.

However, no one will get away with it, as your side continually thinks. And fears. The Bible does clearly teach of the discipline of God towards His "rebellious children". He certainly knows how to make His rebellious children miserable in their rebellion.

That's not what grace teaches us. Here is what grace teaches -

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age…

Correct. That is what grace teaches us. It does NOT teach to live any old way you want because it doesn't matter. It does matter a great deal, but just NOT about losing salvation.

If you live in ungodliness and worldly lusts, do not live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present age, then you have denied grace…period!

OK, but don't forget that even IF we (believers) are unfaithful, God IS faithful, because He cannot deny Himself.

And, don't forget that the Holy Spirit indwells all believers. That's what God not denying Himself is all about.

We're sealed with the Holy Spirit. So He cannot deny us salvation that He has already given us. He WILL deny us reigning with Christ, but that's a reward for faithful service.

Do not give us the this stuff you are peddling. God's grace does nothing for you if do not obey its teachings.

What you continue to reject is that none of God's children will end up in the lake of fire, as much as you'd love to see those who have believed but have "returned to their own vomit" to end up there.

God's grace is far MORE than yours. Thank God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I gave NF a reason for losing one's salvation. I will repeat it here just for you.

1 Chronicles 28:9
“As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.

Did you read that Marvin? 'if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever'.

Did you notice it was conditional upon man? David said, 'If you seek Him, He WILL be found by you; BUT (notice the but here) if you forsake Him (by not seeking Him), HE WILL CAST YOU OFF FOREVER.' Casting you off forever, is most definitely losing your salvation.

Well, if that verse does teach loss of salvation, then there are a number of CONTRADICTIONS in Scripture. So let's just all go home and party hearty.

Good grief. God's gifts are irrevocable from Rom 11:29. And eternal life is a gift of God from Rom 6:23. Do you understand what that means?

Eternal life will NEVER be taken away from one who possesses it.

Furthermore, Jesus promised that those to whom He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

Will you deny what He said?

 

[nobdysfool]

NF, what is intimacy with God?

I gave you two examples.

Do evil works indicate intimacy?

I never said that. Why do you ask such a stupid question?

Why don't good works indicate intimacy? If one loves Jesus, he keeps His commandments.

That's part of it, but there's more to intimacy with God than just doing things. Intimacy with God is between the believer and God and not subject to the judgment of others.

How can one be intimate with God and not keep His commandments?

I said just the opposite. Apparently, you don't seem to be able to grasp what I said.

This is what I said: "If one is intimate with God, they will not be out sinning, and trying to see how far they can push it."

1 John 2:4

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If one does not keep His commandments, he does not know Him, but is a liar, and the truth is NOT in him. So, please explain how one can be intimate with God without knowing Him, that is, without keeping His commandments.

Where did I ever say that? Oh, that's right, I didn't! I said the exact opposite. Why do you continually twist peoples' words around to make it appear that they said the exact opposite of what they said? this is a perfect example right here, You are trying to make it look like I said some thing I did NOT say. That is dishonest.

1 Chronicles 28

9 “As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.

Here is what David told Solomon, to know God and serve Him with a loyal heart and willing mind. Why? Because God searches all hearts and understands every intention of the heart. One can say they know God, but He searches the heart to see if it is loyal, to see every intention.

I wonder what God sees when He looks in your heart? Does He see the hatred and animosity you hold toward Reformed Believers? Does He see your wilful intent to twist their words and lie about what they say?

Then David told Solomon to SEEK HIM. Imagine that. Didn't David know that no one seeks God? David sure wasn't a Reformed believer. And to top it off, David said, 'if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever'. Here David puts it in stone that he is not a Reformed believer. Can you imagine David saying God will cast you off forever?

Being a Reformed Believer has nothing to do with what I was saying. Right here, you show your true intent. You are doing precisely what I said does not promote intimacy with God. Those who are intimate with God have no need to fear being cast off. You think doing good works is intimacy with God. You don't even know what intimacy with God is.

How can one have an intimate relationship with God if he has in the back of his mind that God can cast him off forever? David should have never told Solomon that, for, as you said below, 'it is hard to be intimate with someone who might cut you off at any moment'.

Apparently you didn't understand my point, because you just agreed with me, and I know you never want to be seen doing that.

Good works breeds mistrust??? This makes two quotes you've given which make no sense at all. According to you, the sheep in Matthew 25 couldn't trust Jesus, because of their good works.

Clearly, what I was saying went right over your head. You didn't get it. I said the emphasis on good works can breed mistrust, meaning that if one is so consumed with doing things in order to maintain (or gain) favor with God, it is not conducive to being intimate with Him, so as to hear His words, bask in His Presence, and be filled with His Spirit in worship.

Luk 10:40-42 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. (41) And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: (42) But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.


What was that good part? Sitting at the feet of Jesus, listening to His Word. THAT is intimacy with God.

If people are driven away from Jesus because of good works, then they do not love Him, and believe evil works are all they need.

Those who keep (good works) His commandments are the ones that love Him. And love is the ultimate of intimacy. You have it backwards.

I never said that good works drive people away, that is your lying twist, trying to make me look bad. I said the over-emphasis on good works, i.e. working your hind end off just to remain saved, can make it hard for intimacy to form between God and the person. You clearly don't understand what I was saying, so you try to flip it around, because you can't stand the idea of a Reformed Believer being right about anything.

YOU are the one who has it backwards.

How is God's predestination for you working out? Maybe you should tell God how awful you are being treated, and you don't like His predestined plan for you.

This kind of snark has no place in this discussion. It reveals the state of your heart toward those you disagree with, however, and it shows it pretty clearly.

.

 

[EmSw]

I gave you two examples. Are you blind?

I never said that. You, apparently, are the one holding that opinion.

That's part of it, but there's more to intimacy with God than just doing things.

I said just the opposite. Apparently, you don't seem to be able to grasp what I said.
Where did I ever say that? Oh, that's right, I didn't! I said the exact opposite. Why do you continually twist peoples' words around to make it appear that they said the exact opposite of what they said? this is a perfect example right here, You are trying to make it look like I said some thing I did NOT say. That is dishonest.

I wonder what God sees when He looks in your heart? Does He see the hatred and animosity you hold toward Reformed Believers? Does He see your wilful intent to twist their words and lie about what they say?

Being a Reformed Believer has nothing to do with what I was saying. Right here, you show your true intent. You are doing precisely what I said does not promote intimacy with God. Those who are intimate with God have no need to fear being cast off. You think doing good works is intimacy with God. You don't even know what intimacy with God is.

Apparently you didn't understand my point, because you just agreed with me, and I know you never want to be seen doing that.

Clearly, what I was saying went right over your head. You didn't get it. I said the emphasis on good works can breed mistrust, meaning that if one is so consumed with doing things in order to maintain (or gain) favor with God, it is not conducive to being intimate with Him, so as to hear His words, bask in His Presence, and be filled with His Spirit in worship.

I never said that good works drive people away, that is your lying twist, trying to make me look bad. I said the over-emphasis on good works, i.e. working your hind end off just to remain saved, can make it hard for intimacy to form between God and the person. You clearly don't understand what I was saying, so you try to flip it around, because you can't stand the idea of a Reformed Believer being right about anything.

YOU are the one who has it backwards.

This kind of snark has no place in this discussion. It reveals the state of your heart toward thoise you disagree with, however, and it shows it pretty clearly.

Please keep to yourself. Your insults are getting boring.

 

[nobdysfool]

Please keep to yourself. Your insults are getting boring.

I guess you can dish it out, but you can't take it. If you don't like what I say, don't read my posts. Problem solved.

 

[brotherjerry]

The one thing that is never mentioned, and yet is key to the security of the believer, is intimacy with God. If one is intimate with God, as David demonstrated in the Psalms, and as Jesus Himself demonstrated in His Earthly ministry, the whole issue of eternal security basically vanishes. Good works doesn't indicate intimacy, it is being presented here as an outward show for other men to judge. If one is intimate with God, they will not be out sinning, and trying to see how far they can push it.

The problem with the stress on works is, it is hard to be intimate with someone who might cut you off at any moment. One cannot be afraid of someone and intimate with them at the same time. Some here are presenting good works as the only means to ensure salvation, and keep saved, and the outworking of that is a lot of busywork, effort expended, and worry about it being enough, that there is no time to become intimate with God, and in so doing, develop the trust that one needs in order to be intimate. The emphasis on good works breeds mistrust, which short-circuits intimacy right away.

The over-emphasis of good works, and the constant warnings from some here, can actually have the effect of driving people away, and causing them needless worry about the status of their salvation. It's not that works are not a part of salvation, but works are the natural evidence of salvation and never, ever its cause. Intimacy with God will produce works that reflect that intimacy, because they are inspired by Him, and the believer joyfully does them because he is intimate with God, and never does them in order to gain intimacy, which works can never do.

AMEN!

 

[brotherjerry]

AM

I said this:
"It matters quite a bit to those who don't understand or like grace.

It seems to really grind people to think that someone can get saved, then be a rebellious child of God and still live with Him forever.

Well, such people simply need to "get over it". God's grace trumps all the hangups people have about eternal security.

Jesus told us that to whose whom He has given eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

Why do some reject His words?"

Those who do undestand God's matchless grace have "gotten over it".


However, no one will get away with it, as your side continually thinks. And fears. The Bible does clearly teach of the discipline of God towards His "rebellious children". He certainly knows how to make His rebellious children miserable in their rebellion.


Correct. That is what grace teaches us. It does NOT teach to live any old way you want because it doesn't matter. It does matter a great deal, but just NOT about losing salvation.


OK, but don't forget that even IF we (believers) are unfaithful, God IS faithful, because He cannot deny Himself.

And, don't forget that the Holy Spirit indwells all believers. That's what God not denying Himself is all about.

We're sealed with the Holy Spirit. So He cannot deny us salvation that He has already given us. He WILL deny us reigning with Christ, but that's a reward for faithful service.


What you continue to reject is that none of God's children will end up in the lake of fire, as much as you'd love to see those who have believed but have "returned to their own vomit" to end up there.

God's grace is far MORE than yours. Thank God.

AMEN!

 

[brotherjerry]

Hey NBF.... Just my two bits.
You are not a Reformed Believer...that indicates you were in some other state or you had to make changes. The teaching of eternal security is the Biblical teaching and was understood for hundreds of years...it is a more recent resurgence to think otherwise...which means they are the ones who are actually reformed.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

I am Southern Baptist, and we are big on eternal security. Truthfully, I do not know if I accept my denomination's view.

Most Christians seem to accept the eternal security of some sort, but it is usually associated with the SBC's "unconditional" eternal security while those who say they reject it actually adhere to a "conditional" eternal security.

My view is that true believers are eternally secure as the Holy Spirit will not let them fall away.

However, I have seem good scriptural support from sides.

 

[shakewell]

I want to get peoples input on what they believe about salvation. I don't want to get an argument started here, it is a very touchy subject and it really doesn't matter which way we believe whether we get to heaven or not. But let me know how you believe and post scripture to back your beliefs. I'm struggling with this and just want to get everyones knowledge. Thank you and please this is not to get argument started

Here's one reason I believe in once saved always saved:
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
I believe that never means never.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here's one reason I believe in once saved always saved:
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
I believe that never means never.

First, Scripture has to be read in balance to the context and to other related verses. For example, the very verse you quote says, the water Jesus gives a person is a well spring of water SPRINGING UP INTO everlasting life. The verse does not say it is a well spring of water that IS eternal life. The picture of water we see here is a type of water whereby it is SPRINGING UP INTO EVERLASTING LIFE. This paints a completely different picture than what you actually believe everlasting life to be. I say this because that while salvation can be possessed in the here and now (By a person repenting of their sins and accepting Jesus), it is not something that is attained forever by doing a simple SInner's Prayer one time (with no real change in your life). The picture of ETERNAL LIFE is like a well spring that SPRINGS UP .... INTO .... everlasting life within your life because you let Jesus do the good work in you. For the Scriptures say, "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." Also, when you read John 4, you also have to read the passage that comes before it that says,

19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
(John 3:19-21).

Did you catch what it said?

Verse 20 says everyone who does evil hates the light unless their deeds are reproved (The word "reproved" is obviously talking about repentance, i.e. thru confessing and forsaking sin - See Matthew 12:41 cf. Jonah 3:6-10, Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, 1 John 2:3-6).

Second, the person who has Christ's water whereby they will never thirst again spiritually for anything else is not referencing or talking about how a person can later fall away due to a change of heart (Based on their free will). John 4:14 is talking to the individual who seeking to be spiritually satisfied and it is not talking to an individual who no longer desires Christ's water anymore. For the person who later turns away from Christ would not be in thirst for Christ's water anymore. Obviously God does not force some people to be saved and others to be unsaved. For if that was the case, then it would not make any sense for God to hold him accountable for what he does at a Judgment.


...

 

[PETR0S]

I believe scripture teaches all truly born again believers whom God has predestined before the foundation of the world will indeed persevere in the faith and be eternally saved.
Ron 8:29-30 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

John 6:37-39 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

I'm not in the camp that believes backslidden Christians are not saved either. I believe a believer will be allowed to wallow in the pig pen in certain instances until he realizes his error, repents, and says "I will arise and go to my father." We are saved by the grace of God. We are kept by the power of God.

1 Corinthians 11:32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

I also believe warming passages in scripture will shock the truly regenerate back into obedience and perseverance.

Nothing can separate us from the love of Christ. If you are born again your name has been written in the lambs book of life for millions upon millions of years.

No one will be in heaven because we were so faithful, or obedient, or sinless. I am only acceptable in the sight of God because of the perfect sinless sacrifice of Jesus Christ and nothing else.

Philippians 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
That is the apostle Paul speaking btw.

Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

FOR ALL TIME.

A levitical priest was never allowed to sit on the job. There was no chair in the temple for the priest. Constant sacrifices needed to be made because the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin

Hebrews 10:11-12
Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins.12 But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand.

It is finished

Hebrews 6 13-18

3 When God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself, 14 saying, “I will surely bless you and give you many descendants.”[a]15 And so after waiting patiently, Abraham received what was promised.

16 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain

BY TWO UNCHANGEABLE THINGS.

Your salvation is an promise made between God and God. You had nothing to do with it.

Ephesians 2 8-9 for by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of Godnot of works lest any nan should boast.

Romans 11:29
The gifts and callings of God are irrevocable.

1. The faith that saved you wasn't even yours to begin with. It was a gift from God

2. God doesn't take back his gifts

3. If you could lose your salvation...you would.

 

[St_Worm2]

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
(John 3:19-21). Did you catch what it said? .. (The word "reproved" is obviously talking about repentance

Hi Jason, it seems to me that ἐλέγχω [elegcho] "reproved" means "exposed", IOW, "lest his deeds should be reproved/exposed for what they are", "evil", in contrast to v21 where the righteous deeds of he that doeth truth are shown to be "wrought in God".

ἐλέγχω [elegcho /el·eng·kho/] v. Of uncertain affinity; TDNT 2:473; TDNTA 221; GK 1794; 17 occurrences; AV translates as “reprove” six times, “rebuke” five times, “convince” four times, “tell (one’s) fault” once, and “convict” once. 1 to convict, refute, confute. 1A generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted. 1B by conviction to bring to the light, to expose. 2 to find fault with, correct. 2A by word. 2A1 to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove. 2A2 to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation. 2B by deed. 2B1 to chasten, to punish. Strong, J. (1995). Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon. #1651

I'm don't believe ἐλέγχω ever translates as, "repentance"! (unless you perhaps mean that his deeds, when exposed, would reveal his need to repent )

Yours and His,
David

 

[shakewell]

For the person who later turns away from Christ would not be in thirst for Christ's water anymore.

No one will ever be in thirst for Christ's water "anymore" because once they drink it they never thirst again.

 

[StanJ]

No, and I could put up many verses but one of the clearest is in 1 Tim 4:1;
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
and then in 2 Tim 2:17-18;
Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have departed from the truth.

 

[GoodGRACEshus]

Yes I do believe in eternal security, for me.

When we read the Scriptures we pray to be led in our understanding by the Holy Spirit ....we are led by the Spirit within. One who has truly repented and turned their life over to Jesus will never be lost from him.

Many Churches tell their members what to believe and what not to believe .......and never say "don't take our word on that, read it for yourself".