Man shot in London was not connected to the bombing

Scribbler

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kiwimac said:
You are, I know, simply missing the point.

An innocent man died, he was NOT shot while running, no he was PINNED to the ground and shot 8 times, 8 TIMES.
You, know...I can't find anyone on the thread who claimed he was shot while he was running, Kimiwac. He was shot while pinned because they assumed he was a terrorist bomber, and they wanted to keep him from activating the detonator. As they were using automatics, the weapon will fire consistently & rapidly while the trigger is compressed. Had he been a suicide bomber, the actions of the police would have saved scores of lives.
So,...what was the point and who missed it?
 
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Sycophant

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Scribbler said:
As they were using automatics, the weapon will fire consistently & rapidly while the trigger is compressed.

Just an aside - the only reports I have seen that have mentioned the firearm used specifically refer to a Glock 17, which is a semi-automatic pistol with no burst fire or automatic option. This means eight-shots is eight compressions of the trigger. Also all the reports seem to indicate that one officer fired all the shots.
 
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Scribbler

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Sycophant said:
Just an aside - the only reports I have seen that have mentioned the firearm used specifically refer to a Glock 17, which is a semi-automatic pistol with no burst fire or automatic option. This means eight-shots is eight compressions of the trigger. Also all the reports seem to indicate that one officer fired all the shots.

My mistake. Though I fail to see the point. 1 compression, 8 compressions,...the officers job was to stop the suspicious-acting man before he could detonate a bomb.
 
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drunkard

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Sycophant said:
Just an aside - the only reports I have seen that have mentioned the firearm used specifically refer to a Glock 17, which is a semi-automatic pistol with no burst fire or automatic option.


Are you sure of that?
The Glock 18 (full-auto capable) looks just like a Glock 17 with a select fire switch.
h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_18

The news media are not known for their knowledge of firearms.

edit: left out a word :)
 
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Sycophant

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drunkard said:
Are you sure of that?
The Glock 18 (full-auto capable) looks just like a Glock 17 with a select fire switch.
h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_18

The news media are not known for their knowledge of firearms.

edit: left out a word :)

I am aware of the Glock 18. Like I said, the only specific references I have seen to the actual weapon was "Glock 17" in two articles. Not "Glock Pistol" or anything non-specifc, but the actual model number... So I dunno.
 
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Gkbarnes

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Black_Knight

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KAG said:
No he was legal "Mr Alves said Mr Menezes, who was from the city of Gonzaga in Minas Gerais state, had lived in London legally for at least three years and was employed as an electrician." (from the BBC link)

Well according to the BBC, his visa had expired - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4725659.stm

I mean, it doesn't make any excuses for the killing, but may shed light on to why he ran away??
 
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kiwimac

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Shooting a man 8 times while he is being restrained is an act of anger, of a barely contained rage bursting out, IMO. These are NOT the actions of a police officer.


Kiwimac
 
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fullyaware

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Frankly it doesn't matter whether he is a Muslim or not, he is
a human being.

It is evil because it looks forward to receiving the necessary
explanation from the British authorities on the circumstances
which led to this tragedy.

The Brazilian government is the right to bear arms, both by police
should review their nature. Unlike a full inquiry into a corollary
is evil because it looks forward to receiving the necessary explanation
from the British authorities on the circumstances which led to
this tragedy.

The family of four suspects.

Detectives said they had been contacted by police as the failed
attacks.

'Tragedy'

Scotland Yard said a full inquiry into a bank robber using a
bank robber using a gun to the means necessary to self-defense).
A gun for cover'?
 
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one love

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The man ran from police during a time of highten security and prone to danger, what did he think was going to happen? You can't just jump over an entrance and begin running toward a traincar after bombers killed 50 people thinking the police aren't going to do something. The man brought it on himself.
 
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Loukuss

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kiwimac said:
You are, I know, simply missing the point.

An innocent man died, he was NOT shot while running, no he was PINNED to the ground and shot 8 times, 8 TIMES.

Kiwimac

Kiwimac, you are right. Most people here are missing the point completely.

This was an innocent man, and we have christians here on this thread saying that it was his fault, or the police were right to do what they did. That disgusts me. I'm sure that what Jesus what have said too, right?

What if the story you've been spoon fed, isnt the real story?
He wasnt wearing a bulky jacket to begin with, and he didnt jump the turnstill. Don't believe me, read this article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0%2C16132%2C1537613%2C00.html

Why would the police confront a suicide bomber by chasing him into a crowded area, and forcing/tackling him to the ground? If he's wearing a bomb, why would these men risk the chance that he'd take them out?? Are these men not afraid of death? They have families too, remember, and they're not completly oblivious to what a bomb can do to them. Its as if they knew he didnt have a bomb on him at all. Why have these policemen not been properly identified in reports? Why were they in plain street clothes and carrying silenced weapons(as one eye witness reported?)

And come on, suicide bombers dont run. They detonate the bomb and blow up. The police know this. Wouldnt the fact that hes running away indicate that hes not a suicide bomber?

Also, reports say that he was tackled by officers. Wouldnt they then be able to tell that there were no explosives on him? Especially since the story of a bulky jacket was not true.

Things just dont add up. Who knows if we'll ever know the real story.
Even if this story is as its been told to us by the media, and some innocent man was executed in public by police, the belief that some of you hold, that he somehow deserved it for running is disgusting and simply deplorable. May God have mercy on your wicked hearts.
 
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Gkbarnes

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Peice of news that seems to confirm the above post

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4157892.stm

According to leaked documents, the guy DIDN'T jump the barrier, WASN'T wearing a big jacket, was running to catch the train (which, speaking as a Londoner", i've done ans was HELD by the police BEFORE being shot.
 
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rosenherman

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LucasGoltz said:
Kiwimac, you are right. Most people here are missing the point completely.
Not agreeing with you doesn't mean we miss your point.

This was an innocent man, and we have christians here on this thread saying that it was his fault, or the police were right to do what they did. That disgusts me. I'm sure that what Jesus what have said too, right?
Since Jesus said we are to obey our lawmakers, yes that is probably what Jesus would have said.

What if the story you've been spoon fed, isnt the real story?
He wasnt wearing a bulky jacket to begin with, and he didnt jump the turnstill. Don't believe me, read this article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0%2C16132%2C1537613%2C00.html
What if it is the real story and this is article has been concocted to confuse and mis-lead? It's been long enough in coming

Why would the police confront a suicide bomber by chasing him into a crowded area, and forcing/tackling him to the ground?
Obviously to keep him out of the train.
If he's wearing a bomb, why would these men risk the chance that he'd take them out?? Are these men not afraid of death?
Because they're cops and that is what they do.:doh: The put their lives on the line to keep the rest of us safe. If we didn't have these brave women and men putting their lives on the line for the pitiful salary we give them, the world would be even uglier than it is.
They have families too, remember, and they're not completly oblivious to what a bomb can do to them.
See above. It's what they do.
Its as if they knew he didnt have a bomb on him at all.
yea, right
Why have these policemen not been properly identified in reports?
Confidentiality. We can't have plain-clothed detectives outed for doing their job, undercover is ugly and dangerous work.

Why were they in plain street clothes and carrying silenced weapons(as one eye witness reported?)
If you are watching terrorists and don't want them to know they are being watched, what would you wear?

And come on, suicide bombers dont run. They detonate the bomb and blow up. The police know this. Wouldnt the fact that hes running away indicate that hes not a suicide bomber?
Of course suicide bombers run, if you're going to die for your belief, wouldn't you want to take the most number of your enemies with you? If they catch you, you might not be able to set off your bomb. If you don't, then oops, there go your virgins.

Also, reports say that he was tackled by officers. Wouldnt they then be able to tell that there were no explosives on him? Especially since the story of a bulky jacket was not true.
Where do you carry explosives? If you're trying to not die are you going to worry that the bump you're feeling is his wallet or a detonator?

Things just dont add up. Who knows if we'll ever know the real story.
Even if this story is as its been told to us by the media, and some innocent man was executed in public by police, the belief that some of you hold, that he somehow deserved it for running is disgusting and simply deplorable. May God have mercy on your wicked hearts.
God knows the truth and He will indeed have mercy on my wicked, wicked soul. You need to look out for your own. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." "Vengence is Mine sayeth The Lord"
 
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Loukuss

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Rose,


Since it is now coming out in the UK that the young Brazillian man who was murdered, neither jumped the turnstill(he used his Tube pass) or wore a bulky jacket (he was wearing a jean jacket), I guess it was you that was believing a story that was misleading you.
Yes, Jesus said to obey the lawmakers, but He also said to resist all evil and dark forces of the world. What happens if one day our lawmakers are the same evil we have been told to resist? I guess you can only see what you want to see, and believe what you want to believe. Closing yourself off from the truth doesnt make it any less true.
Why did the police shoot to kill this man, but used a taser on another suspect of the failed London bombings?
You seem to believe this story without second thought, Rose. Believing the same liars who 'fell asleep' on 9/11, launched a war on many false pretenses, and have been taking away civil liberties (Patriot Act I & II) in the name of freedom and protection?? Good for you. I guess you analytical thinking went out the window with your youth. Sorry, but after hearing all the lies for the past several years, I'm not so willing to believe everything I hear on the television or read in the newspaper. Especially when mass media are in the pockets of the people telling us these lies.

And, Rose, I will look out for my own. About judging, and your cute bible verse ("Judge not, lest ye be judged." ) - maybe I am willing to be judged by the same standards I have judged by.
 
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rosenherman

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I am more cynical about stories that have been "developed". The original stories are usually closer to the actual occurence, since people haven't had time to think about what they saw, talk about it and determine exactly what it was they saw. Their viewpoints may have a lot to do with how they decide something happened.
 
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Loukuss

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rosenherman said:
I am more cynical about stories that have been "developed". The original stories are usually closer to the actual occurence, since people haven't had time to think about what they saw, talk about it and determine exactly what it was they saw. Their viewpoints may have a lot to do with how they decide something happened.

So, the original story that came out about the murdered Brazilian man was more true or closer to the real story? And you base this on what? The fact that it was 'developed'? If by developed you mean 'more facts were collected, I dont understand why you'd just dismiss them. Narrow mindedness is all that is. I guess the developed story about the Iraq war and its false pretenses should be dismissed too, eh? Heck, all developed stories throughout history shouldnt be considered at all, according to the way you view things.
Is the bubble you live in comfortable?
 
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rosenherman

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LucasGoltz said:
So, the original story that came out about the murdered Brazilian man was more true or closer to the real story? And you base this on what? The fact that it was 'developed'? If by developed you mean 'more facts were collected, I dont understand why you'd just dismiss them. Narrow mindedness is all that is. I guess the developed story about the Iraq war and its false pretenses should be dismissed too, eh? Heck, all developed stories throughout history shouldnt be considered at all, according to the way you view things.
Is the bubble you live in comfortable?
When something is not immediately written down changes are made to the story. All memories are affected by what you think, i.e. your viewpoint, who you have talked to and what they said. It has been proven that you can convince someone that something happend. And that you can convince them of how it happend. They come to believe those memories are true, although the incident never took place. The most immediate memories are the most accurate.

Only the foolish believe everything in history happend the way it is reported to us. Remember history is written by the victors.
 
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Loukuss

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rosenherman said:
When something is not immediately written down changes are made to the story. All memories are affected by what you think, i.e. your viewpoint, who you have talked to and what they said. It has been proven that you can convince someone that something happend. And that you can convince them of how it happend. They come to believe those memories are true, although the incident never took place. The most immediate memories are the most accurate.

Only the foolish believe everything in history happend the way it is reported to us. Remember history is written by the victors.

Well, in a nice roundabout way, you called yourself foolish. I'm satisfied.
As for the rest of your post: who cares? Do you remember what this thread was about? Stay on topic or go chatter about it somewhere else.
 
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ScottishJohn

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rosenherman said:
I am more cynical about stories that have been "developed". The original stories are usually closer to the actual occurence, since people haven't had time to think about what they saw, talk about it and determine exactly what it was they saw. Their viewpoints may have a lot to do with how they decide something happened.

Look back at the 'Original Story' in fact look back at this thread when the story broke and you will see that ALL ALONG people have been saying that the Police were totally in the wrong on this, the most recent development just CONFIRMS what has already been reported: The man was followed to the station from his building which was under surveilance, one of the surveilance team was on a Tea Break so vital video footage was lost, he WALKED into the station, he STOPPED to pick up a free newspaper, he passed through the barrier in the normal way showing his travelcard and only RAN to make sure he didn't miss his train. He was wearing a LIGHT jacket or SHIRT and was fully restrained before being shot EIGHT times.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4163568.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4159412.stm

Note the picture of the dead man on the tube. Where is his bulky jacket under which he was concealing all the suicide ordinance?

ONE 'eyewitness' statement led to the version of events you seem to favour, and the police did nothing to contradict what has now been shown to be untrue. They chose to allow the public to believe lies which showed them in a better light, because if they did not they would have had to reveal the monumental mistakes they had made. Cue bono?
 
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kiwimac

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I think the officers involved should be charged with murder and sentenced to prison.This was about rage not about policing. No one needs to be shot 7 times in the head, hell if you're uncertain you go for a double tap, head and larynx but not 8 times all up.

Kiwimac
 
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