Is God a liar?

Aman777

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God in the OT is physical on many occasions also.
In Isaiah 43:10 i think it's about the Son of man, Jesus of Nazareth.
I don't understand the identity of God.
But that's okay with me. :)

Doesn't agree with the following:

Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.

Notice that when God is "seen" in the OT that it is the "Lord" Who is seen. That is because God is an invisible Spirit. Jhn 4:24 God exists physically ONLY in Jesus/YHWH/Lord God. Jesus is the ONLY God you will ever see with your eyes. Amen?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Notice that when God is "seen" in the OT that it is the "Lord" Who is seen. That is because God is an invisible Spirit. Jhn 4:24 God exists physically ONLY in Jesus/YHWH/Lord God. Jesus is the ONLY God you will ever see with your eyes.
That's probably true in most protestant and rcc groups.
 
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BobRyan

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2. The "Bible is wrong" is only true if you take Genesis LITERALLY, which I don't.

God takes it literally as we see in His own summary of the Genesis 1:2-2:4 "Account" -- historic "account"

As already noted -- "SIX DAYS you shall labor...for IN SIX days the LORD created the heavens and the earth - and rested the 7th day"

This is irrefutable - and the failed attempts to marry the Bible to evolutionism do not survive this "Bible detail"

Gen 2 -
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20 - legal code (not poetry - not symbolism)
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

this is a bible detail that cannot be ignored when admitting that the Bible describes a real - literal "six days you shall labor...for in six days the Lord made" 7 day week for creation that maps exactly to the week of Exodus 20.

Irrefutable.

========================================

So much so that atheists have no problem admitting to what the text says -- even though they do not agree with its teaching.

Atheists often don't mind "admitting" to what the Bible says - they simply reject what it says. As in rejecting the virgin birth, the bodily ascension of Christ, the miracles of the bible and in this example they freely admit to what the Bible says - while rejecting it as 'truth'.

Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford, has written:

‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that: (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story (c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark. Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.’

=======================

That is the opinion of professors not at all inclined to accept the 7 day creation week that we find in Gen 1:2-2:3 yet they can still 'read' and point to the author's intent - whether they agree with the author or not


Bible believing Christians are not in a conflict-of-interest on this Bible detail because they freely reject blind faith evolutionism - so no Bible bending the text of Genesis for them.

Atheists are not in a conflict of interest position on this Bible detail because they freely reject the Bible - so they too do not engage in Bible bending in Genesis as Dr Barr points out.
 
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Hieronymus

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Doesn't agree with the following:

Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.

Notice that when God is "seen" in the OT that it is the "Lord" Who is seen. That is because God is an invisible Spirit. Jhn 4:24 God exists physically ONLY in Jesus/YHWH/Lord God. Jesus is the ONLY God you will ever see with your eyes. Amen?
I suppose that could be accurate. :)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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God takes it literally as we see in His own summary of the Genesis 1:2-2:4 "Account" -- historic "account"
God never lies.
Men cannot accept what God says, unless, as God says, God grants it.
That's standard.
No change since , well, ever.
 
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BobRyan

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God in the OT is physical on many occasions also.
In Isaiah 43:10 i think it's about the Son of man, Jesus of Nazareth.
I don't understand the identity of God.
But that's okay with me. :)

Very often in the OT when YHWH -- LORD is "seen" it is in fact God the Son not the Father. In John 1 we are told that the Father has not been seen by man.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Very often in the OT when YHWH -- LORD is "seen" it is in fact God the Son not the Father. In John 1 we are told that the Father has not been seen by man.
footnote for those seeking the Father.
Jesus said to all His disciples, IF you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.
He still says that today,
but ONLY to His disciples born again from heaven, by the Will of the Father, not of the will of man, nor of the will of the flesh(or of the flesh?) .....
 
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Hieronymus

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Very often in the OT when YHWH -- LORD is "seen" it is in fact God the Son not the Father. In John 1 we are told that the Father has not been seen by man.
I believe so too.
But how about Melchizedek?
He seems to be God too.
 
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BobRyan

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*** Gen 2 -
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Notice the "all" that I bolded. Christians are inhabitants or hosts of Heaven and this verse shows that ALL of them, including future ones, are present in Heaven WHEN God rests (Heb-Sabbath-Ceases) from ALL of His work of Creating. Since it takes the AGREEMENT of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to CREATE a New creature in Christ Gen 1:26 and John 14:16, God is STILL working today. God's Rest from ALL of His work is future.

*** Ex 20 - legal code (not poetry - not symbolism)
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Amen. God's Days continue until the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31 is fulfilled.

Your statement has problems on several counts.

1. Gen 1:28-31 is not a prophecy it is historic fact.
2. The text does not say "creation week not over yet" or anything like it.

Rather in true "COMPLETED language"

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

*** this is a bible detail that cannot be ignored when admitting that the Bible describes a real - literal "six days you shall labor...for in six days the Lord made" 7 day week for creation that maps exactly to the week of Exodus 20.

Irrefutable.

I look forward to keeping the 7th Day Holy. Do you think that every 7th Day on Planet Earth is Holy?

"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy" - Ex 20:8.

Ex 20 - Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Same word used in Gen 2 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it,

Sanctified - set it apart for holy use.
 
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BobRyan

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I believe so too.
But how about Melchizedek?
He seems to be God too.

in Genesis 18 God (YHWH - LORD) and two angels appear as "three men". Does not mean they are nothing more than "men" --

However Melchizedek appears to be king of Salem and not a form of God the Son - -except as a 'type' of the promised Messiah.
 
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Hieronymus

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in Genesis 18 God (YHWH - LORD) and two angels appear as "three men". Does not mean they are nothing more than "men" --

However Melchizedek appears to be king of Salem and not a form of God the Son - -except as a 'type' of the promised Messiah.
When you look at how Melchizedek is described, he has the essential traits of God.
Christ being the High Priest in his Order.
His name can be translated as King of Peace.
 
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BobRyan

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The 4.5 billion year number was dug up - by looking at a meteor -- doing radiometric dating on it then "assuming" the earth was the same age. Because it was 'assumed' that a much of smaller meteors all got together slamming into each other to form the earth.

Not long ago they were walking on some of the oldest rock ever found on the actual earth - about 4.3 billion years old according to the radiometric -- and noticed that the rock had formed 'under water' - so then water - already here - already an ocean here when the basement rock 'was forming' - that fits "nothing" in their story.

Then then noticed elements in the rock that can only form under high pressure and heat - 12 miles deep in the earth's crust. So then continental earth's crust 12 miles deep at the time that basement rocks were forming. Earth having continents and oceans - at the start. That fits "nothing" in their stories.

Notice that the more accurate texts point out that "He made" two lights on day four - but do not say "he made the stars" the term "He made" is inserted just as they indicate -- when it comes to the stars. So the "He made two lights" statement is in the text - but the thing being said about the stars is not that he made them on day four.

When looking at what the text says God “made” – He made “two” lights – it does not say “He made the starts” on day four – just that the stars also rule the night and by implication in the same – God made them but not on day 4 – not as part of the TWO lights that the text says is the number of lights made.

Where the texts have "he made the stars" they point out that "he made" is inserted.

King James Bible
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
God made the two great lights--the greater light to have dominion over the day and the lesser light to have dominion over the night--as well as the stars.

International Standard Version
God fashioned two great lights—the larger light to shine during the day and the smaller light to shine during the night—as well as stars.

Young's Literal Translation
And God maketh the two great luminaries, the great luminary for the rule of the day, and the small luminary -- and the stars -- for the rule of the night;

What makes you think that water was here when the rock was formed? Just because it is under water now doesn't mean it has always been. News flash -- tectonic plates move sideways, get pushed up, get sucked down, all sorts of stuff. And water has not always been on the planet.

I like the idea underlying your post - which is that stories easy enough to tell - are ok when it comes to upholding evolutionism.

But actual science is what we are talking about here. Rocks that form underwater have a very specific chemical signature.

The rocks on the north shore of the Hudson bay are not under water - they are on top of the ground - but they have the chemical signature of rocks that have been formed under water and they date as the oldest rocks on earth - the basement rocks. Which means earth formed with continental crust under an ocean of water - 12 + miles of crust at least -- and that is our "start".

not at all in line with the "lying bible" doctrine that some teach.
 
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BobRyan

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When you look at how Melchizedek is described, he has the essential traits of God.
Christ being the High Priest in his Order.
His name can be translated as King of Peace.

Indeed he is a type .. there are many types of Christ given in the OT -- and Hebrews 7 points to Melchizedek as a type of Christ.

(not sure what that has to do with the topic)
 
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Hieronymus

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