Is God a liar?

BobRyan

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He is a real person though.
Without parents and without beginning nor end.We've been a bit off-topic for a while now.. :D

Christ always claimed God the Father as His Father.

The reason that Melchizedek is said to be "without a father" is because the story does not name him. It is only in the "features of the story" that he becomes that kind of symbol.
 
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Hieronymus

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Christ always claimed God the Father as His Father.

The reason that Melchizedek is said to be "without a father" is because the story does not name him. It is only in the "features of the story" that he becomes that kind of symbol.
Yeah, i've heard that 'excuse' before, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe i'll open a topic about Melchizedek.
It's an intriguing subject.
 
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Hieronymus

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QUOTE"Hieronymus, post: 69766271, member: 383855"]He is a real person though.
Without parents and without beginning nor end.
We've been a bit off-topic for a while now.. QUOTE

Isn't God in charge ? What is God's Purpose here, and everywhere ?
Not sure what you mean.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Yeah, i've heard that 'excuse' before, but it doesn't make sense to me.
I haven't heard "that excuse" as far as I remember(maybe I heard it last century :) and forgot).
No worries.
Is any excuse needed for some reason ?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Not sure what you mean.
Jesus spoke "off topic" directly, and often.
He spoke what the Father said to speak, and nothing, ever, of or for Himself.
Jesus told His disciples, and led them, and trained them (us)
to do the same.
 
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Hieronymus

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Jesus spoke "off topic" directly, and often.
He spoke what the Father said to speak, and nothing, ever, of or for Himself.
Jesus told His disciples, and led them, and trained them (us)
to do the same.
Allright, but He wasn't on a forum :D ;)
 
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joshua 1 9

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Isn't God in charge ? What is God's Purpose here, and everywhere ?
God wants us to love Him because we choose to love Him. This is not really a choice unless we are free to choose not to love God. He has a plan of redemption and restoration for those who make the choice to love Him.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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God wants us to love Him because we choose to love Him. This is not really a choice unless we are free to choose not to love God. He has a plan of redemption and restoration for those who make the choice to love Him.

That sounds good to some people, but I don't think you'll find it in the Old nor in the New Testament.
 
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BobRyan

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Darwin admits to the blantantly obvious fact that faith in evolutionism demands the downward march to evolutionism.

And it begins with adopting "Bible is wrong -- evolutionism is right" doctrines.

1. The overwhelming majority of God-believing evolutionists prove Darwin wrong .

You yourself prove Darwin's claim.


. Let's face it. Genesis 1 is simply not compatible with what we know from science.

Let's compare that "Bible is wrong" doctrine - to the way Darwin said it.

Darwin -
Whilst on board the Beagle I was quite orthodox, and remember being heartily laughed at by several of the officers (though themselves orthodox) for quoting the Bible as an unanswerable authority on some point of morality. I suppose it was the novelty of the argument that amused thee.

But I had gradually come by this time, i.e. 1836 to 1839, to see that the Old Testament was no more to be trusted than the sacred books of the Hindus….

By further reflecting… that the more we know of the fixed laws of nature the more incredible do miracle become, - that the men of the time were ignorant and credulous to a degree almost incomprehensible to us,- that the Gospels cannot be proved to have been written simultaneously with the events,- that they differ in many important details…

I gradually came to disbelieve in Christianity as a divine revelation…. But I was very unwilling to give up my belief; I feel sure of this, for I can well remember often and often inventing day-dreams of old letters between distinguished Romans… which confirmed in the most striking manner all that was written in the Gospels. But I found it more and more difficult, with free scope given to my imagination, to invent evidence which would suffice to convince me. Thus disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate but was at last complete. The rate was so slow that I felt no distress, and have never doubted even for a single second that my conclusion was correct.

Bible believing Christians are not in a conflict-of-interest on this point because they freely reject blind-faith-evolutionism - so no need to corrupt the text of the Bible.

Atheists art not in a conflict-of-interest on this point for they freely reject that Bible as being in error - so then for them as well no need to corrupt the Bible to "make it fit" evolutionism.

So because "Bible bending" was not an option for Darwin - when his blind faith in evolutionism lead him to declare the Bible 'wrong' and evolutionism 'right' - he logically switched from the Bible to evolutionism as his "source of truth".

How so? I'm into THEISTIC evolution, evidence AGAINT Darwin's idea.

You prove Darwin's "Bible is wrong" conclusion once he swallows blind-faith-evolutionism as his "source of truth"

"
Whilst on board the Beagle I was quite orthodox, and remember being heartily laughed at by several of the officers (though themselves orthodox) for quoting the Bible as an unanswerable authority on some point of morality. I suppose it was the novelty of the argument that amused thee.

But I had gradually come by this time, i.e. 1836 to 1839, to see that the Old Testament was no more to be trusted than the sacred books of the Hindus…."


With your own

. Let's face it. Genesis 1 is simply not compatible with what we know from science.

====================================

The next step is the uncluttered one that Darwin takes ...

Or the conflict-of-interest solution you chose as an Evangelical.

To be fair to you - once you became a Catholic you no longer had the conflict of interest problem and can join Darwin in finding that non-self-conflicted soluiton.... just as Bible believing Christians also take that uncluttered option rejecting blind faith evolutionism.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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1. Bible believing Christians are not in a conflict-of-interest on this point because they freely reject blind-faith-evolutionism - so no need to corrupt the text of the Bible.

2. Atheists art not in a conflict-of-interest on this point for they freely reject that Bible as being in error - so then for them as well no need to corrupt the Bible to "make it fit" evolutionism.

3. T.E's pick the most conflicted conflict-of-interest path - trying to marry the Bible to blind faith evolutionism - by applying every bend-and-wrench idea they can think of when reading the Bible account for origins.

So because "Bible bending" was not an option for Darwin - when his blind faith in evolutionism lead him to declare the Bible 'wrong' and evolutionism 'right' - he logically switched from the Bible to evolutionism as his "source of truth".

====================================

Catholicism offers a solution for T.E.s because in Catholicism the "source of truth" is the RCC itself not the Bible. As long as the RCC affirms blind-faith-evolutionism there is no conflict for the T.E. They can have a Bible that is 'wrong' and it does not put any dent in their "source of truth" nor create a conflict with evolutionism.

Since you say you became T.E. while Evangelical - you did not have the Catholic solution at all. Evangelicals do not go for the idea that the Bible is not their source of truth.
 
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Open Heart

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You prove Darwin's "Bible is wrong" conclusion once he swallows blind-faith-evolutionism as his "source of truth"
Believing the Bible is not literal is NOT the same as believing it is wrong.
 
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Open Heart

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Since you say you became T.E. while Evangelical - you did not have the Catholic solution at all. Evangelicals do not go for the idea that the Bible is not their source of truth.
So obviously there is something wrong with your analysis. A person CAN believe the Bible and STILL believe in Evolution. How? By understanding that the GENRE of Genesis 1 is myth. It's not SUPPOSED to be scientifically or historically accurate. It's only supposed to teach ETERNAL truths. We read Genesis 1 to learn that God is Creator and we are creation. We don't read Genesis to find out how God created or when.
 
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BobRyan

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1. Bible believing Christians are not in a conflict-of-interest on this point because they freely reject blind-faith-evolutionism - so no need to corrupt the text of the Bible.

2. Atheists art not in a conflict-of-interest on this point for they freely reject that Bible as being in error - so then for them as well no need to corrupt the Bible to "make it fit" evolutionism.

3. T.E's pick the most conflicted conflict-of-interest path - trying to marry the Bible to blind faith evolutionism - by applying every bend-and-wrench idea they can think of when reading the Bible account for origins.

So because "Bible bending" was not an option for Darwin - when his blind faith in evolutionism lead him to declare the Bible 'wrong' and evolutionism 'right' - he logically switched from the Bible to evolutionism as his "source of truth".

====================================

Catholicism offers a solution for T.E.s because in Catholicism the "source of truth" is the RCC itself not the Bible. As long as the RCC affirms blind-faith-evolutionism there is no conflict for the T.E. They can have a Bible that is 'wrong' and it does not put any dent in their "source of truth" nor create a conflict with evolutionism.

Since you say you became T.E. while Evangelical - you did not have the Catholic solution at all. Evangelicals do not go for the idea that the Bible is not their source of truth.

So obviously there is something wrong with your analysis. A person CAN believe the Bible and STILL believe in Evolution.

You might want to read that post again - your comment is already refuted at that point.

How? By understanding that the GENRE of Genesis 1 is myth.

indeed - "Bible is myth" is exactly what Darwin argued for - so also do atheists on the "myth flood, myth creation, myth virgin birth, myth resurrection of Christ, myth ascension of Christ"

Believing the Bible is not literal is NOT the same as believing it is wrong.

As even James Barr points out (who fully believes the Bible to be myth ) - the creation account is given as a literal historic account and all the atheist/agnostic professors of Hebrew and OT studies in world class universities admit to this.

It is all "myth" to them because they have no need to "believe the Bible" just as Catholics who place their "source of truth" in the RCC and not the Bible - have no need to side with the Bible against blind faith evolutionism.

It's not SUPPOSED to be scientifically or historically accurate.

your view of the Bible is "much anticipated" and is also what we find among atheists on the Bible "myth flood, myth creation, myth virgin birth, myth resurrection of Christ, myth ascension of Christ".

Believing the Bible is not literal is NOT the same as believing it is wrong.

I am sure you would wish to slice-and-dice out of that model when it is "not convenient" to keep doing it. But atheists at least are consistent in using your model with the text.

"The Bible is not literal" - not literally true - according to atheists. And the Bible is "myth" in general according to atheists though even they will admit as in the case of Genesis 1-2 and Exodus 20:11 legal code that the author is not writing it as fable but as actual fact - that today is now considered myth by those who do not accept the Bible as written.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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Genesis 1 is myth. It's not SUPPOSED to be scientifically or historically accurate. .

God takes it literally as we see in His own summary of the Genesis 1:2-2:4 "Account" -- historic "account"

As already noted -- "SIX DAYS you shall labor...for IN SIX days the LORD created the heavens and the earth - and rested the 7th day"

This is irrefutable - and the failed attempts to marry the Bible to evolutionism do not survive this "Bible detail"

Gen 2 -
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20 - legal code (not poetry - not symbolism)
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

this is a bible detail that cannot be ignored when admitting that the Bible describes a real - literal "six days you shall labor...for in six days the Lord made" 7 day week for creation that maps exactly to the week of Exodus 20.

Irrefutable.

========================================

So much so that atheists have no problem admitting to what the text says -- even though they do not agree with its teaching.


Genesis 1 is myth. It's not SUPPOSED to be scientifically or historically accurate. .

Atheists (who take the Bible as "myth" without question) often don't mind "admitting" to what the Bible says - they simply reject what it says. As in rejecting the virgin birth, the bodily ascension of Christ, the miracles of the bible and in this example they freely admit to what the Bible says - while rejecting it as 'truth'.

In this case the genre the "kind of writing that it is" -- is the kind of writing known as historic account - as even atheist professors of Hebrew and OT studies in all world class universities - the will admit.

Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford, has written:

‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that: (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story (c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark. Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.’

=======================

That is the opinion of professors not at all inclined to accept the 7 day creation week that we find in Gen 1:2-2:3 yet they can still 'read' and point to the author's intent - whether they agree with the author or not


Bible believing Christians are not in a conflict-of-interest on this Bible detail because they freely reject blind faith evolutionism - so no Bible bending the text of Genesis for them.

Atheists are not in a conflict of interest position on this Bible detail because they freely reject the Bible - so they too do not engage in Bible bending in Genesis as Dr Barr points out.
 
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Aman777

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(a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience

Un-Scriptural, UNTIL someone can show us WHEN in the past:

1. Humankind had dominion or rule over EVERY living creature. Gen 1:28
2. All living creatures were changed into vegetarians. Gen 1:30
3. God declared that His creation was "very good" or perfect. Gen 1:31

The above is prophecy of events which will happen when Jesus returns to this Planet, a FUTURE event. Amen?
 
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