Is God a liar?

Open Heart

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I am sure you would wish to slice-and-dice out of that model when it is "not convenient" to keep doing it.
It has nothing to do with convenience. It has to do with basic reading comprehension. When you read something, it is critical to recognize what genre you are reading in order to understand it. Is it satire? Is it a poem? Is it science fiction? Is it a historical text? Is it a parable? Is it a persuasive essay? Is it scientific research? If you read "the whale sang," it means something entirely different in fantasy literature than in scientific writing. So recognizing genre is ESSENTIAL to understanding the meaning of writing.
 
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Open Heart

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Atheists (who take the Bible as "myth" without question)
Atheists also take the Psalms as songs without question. Does it make it wrong simply because atheists believe it? Saying something is mistaken just because the "bad guys" believe it is a fallacy known as "guilt by association." Remember that that understanding that Genesis 1 is a creation myth is understood by most people in this world, who are not atheists.
 
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Aman777

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I suppose such a thing is theoretically possible, but it is so not necessary and I have never encountered it.

To me, "blind faith evolutionism" is in believing that mindless nature evolved superior intelligence in Apes. This is totally False Scripturally since Adam was made the 3rd Day, before the plants, herbs and rain. Gen 2:4-7 Apes, along with every other "living creature" were created from the water on the 5th Day according to Gen 1:21.

Can anyone explain HOW Humans could have possibly evolved from the common ancestor of Apes, since Apes were made long AFTER Humans? I doubt it but blind faith evolution forces this teaching on our children in Public Schools. Someone is LYING and it's NOT God. Amen?
 
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Open Heart

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To me, "blind faith evolutionism" is in believing that mindless nature evolved superior intelligence in Apes.
That is not the definition of "blind faith." Blind faith means that one believes something in the absence of evidence.

BTW Theistic evolution believes that God evolved superior intelligence in apes.
 
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Aman777

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That is not the definition of "blind faith." Blind faith means that one believes something in the absence of evidence.

BTW Theistic evolution believes that God evolved superior intelligence in apes.

The Scriptural evidence shows that Humans (descendants of Adam) did NOT evolve, but instead, came to this Earth in an Ark. Evolution CANNOT explain How or When mindless Nature produced Adam's superior intelligence, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 in animals. TE doesn't believe that Adam was formed of the dust of the ground as God tells us. In order to believe TE, one MUST reject God's Scriptural Truth in Gen 2:7. Do you?
 
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Archie the Preacher

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It is an impossibility for God to lie---for the simple reason that whatever God says is. If He should say--the sky is purple--it would immediately change to purple--no lie. If He says something will happen--it will, it's just a matter of time. If it's 100 degrees, bright sunny and He says it's snowing and -80---the weather would immediately change.

You have very strongly contradicted yourself here.

First you say: "It is an impossibility for God to lie..." which is true, but not for the reason you cite. After claiming God cannot lie, you then paint God as a frivolous, capricious and unreliable Being; that is horribly heretical in substance.

God cannot violate His own nature; alternatively, God cannot NOT be God. It is the only thing God cannot do.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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You then must eliminate the resurrection as a lie, which I refuse to do.
Sorry. :sunrisemountains:

This is completely unconnected and irrational statement. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is unaffected by the myth of YEC, other than confusing the issue.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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Does reason supersede deity?

No it does not.

Your turn now. Does slavishly following the teaching of Bishop Ussher supersede deity OR the Inspired message of God?
 
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SkyWriting

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This is completely unconnected and irrational statement. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is unaffected by the myth of YEC, other than confusing the issue.

The resurrection of Jesus gives people the
impression that Jesus "swooned", so pay attention.
 
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No it does not.

Your turn now. Does slavishly following the teaching of Bishop Ussher supersede deity OR the Inspired message of God?
The message you quoted is from May 17, 2015. I don't even recall what this is about, nor care to read back through 44 pages. My apologies.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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The resurrection of Jesus gives people the impression that Jesus "swooned", so pay attention.
Perhaps it gives YOU the impression Jesus "swooned", I am under no such misconception.

Nor is the Resurrection of Jesus inextricably linked to the YEC myth.
 
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SkyWriting

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Perhaps it gives YOU the impression Jesus "swooned", I am under no such misconception. Nor is the Resurrection of Jesus inextricably linked to the YEC myth.

No not me. Pay attention.
Once you insist that science can diagnose
the scriptures, then you wonder if Jesus
didn't actually die, but just fainted. Being
dead, then coming back to life "just doesn't
seem medically possible".

No, the scriptures to not ask for scientific
examination.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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No not me. Pay attention.
Once you insist that science can diagnose the scriptures, then you wonder if Jesus didn't actually die, but just fainted. Being
dead, then coming back to life "just doesn't seem medically possible".

No, the scriptures to not ask for scientific examination.
I don't agree to most of what you wrote here. The only thing to which I do agree is the idea 'Being dead then coming back to life isn't medically possible'. That is correct, it isn't. Which is not to say it didn't happen on that particular occasion, it certainly did (or we of all men are most deluded and hopeless). See 1st Corinthians 15:12-28 or so.

However, God is not 'afraid' of anyone learning anything about Him or what He has done. Nor is there anything which can be learned about Him which will make anyone - mortal or immortal - His equal or even His rival. He is God. (End of discussion in that regard.) So scientific inquiry into the underlying causes of the origin of the Universe itself, the nature and origin of life, or even the origin of species is not some deep, dark secret which God protects.

Frankly, I don't think humanity will ever be able to achieve some of the creative acts of God. I think it is possible mankind will 'discover' what 'makes' (probably not the right word, but it's the best I can do right now) life, but I don't think mankind will ever be able to actually duplicate it. I'm not talking about building an artificial human, I'm talking about building a single-celled organism like a paramecium or an amoeba. Something simple. However, that is probably off the point.

No. I don't agree. Since God did create the Universe from nothing, His ability to bring His own body back to life doesn't give me any question at all. And if some cosmologist figures out the mechanics of how it was done, it won't change a thing.

By the way; thanks for defending me to "Seeking Solace". Very few people like to have their faults pointed out. I'm pretty aware of mine and still don't like it.
 
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Archie the Preacher said:
Oh. Sorry for the confusion. Frankly, if I had said something as unconnected and inane, I would choose not to recall it either.



Archies comments were directed at himself and what you posted.
It is your obligation not to take the content criticism personally
even though it was not soft as dew on flower petals.

By the way; thanks for defending me to "Seeking Solace". Very few people like to have their faults pointed out. I'm pretty aware of mine and still don't like it.

Actually, forget it. I won't waste anymore time replying. Speak ill of me all you like.

I forgive you.
 
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SkyWriting

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However, God is not 'afraid' of anyone learning anything about Him or what He has done. Nor is there anything which can be learned about Him which will make anyone - mortal or immortal - His equal or even His rival. He is God. (End of discussion in that regard.) So scientific inquiry into the underlying causes of the origin of the Universe itself, the nature and origin of life, or even the origin of species is not some deep, dark secret which God protects. Frankly, I don't think humanity will ever be able to achieve some of the creative acts of God.

Glad to hear that. I was saying that God's miracles are unknowable.
You can say that nature is a miracle, which is true as well.
This is detailed within the scriptures:

John 2:6
6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.
7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.
8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”
They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”
Jesus changed water into wine (John 2:1-11).

Jesus cured the nobleman's son (
John 4:46-47).
The great haul of fishes (
Luke 5:1-11).
Jesus cast out an unclean spirit (
Mark 1:23-28).
Jesus cured Peter's mother-in-law of a fever (
Mark 1:30-31).
Jesus healed a leper (
Mark 1:40-45).
Jesus healed the centurion's servant (
Matthew 8:5-13).
Jesus raised the widow's son from the dead (
Luke 7:11-18).
Jesus stilled the storm (
Matthew 8:23-27).
Jesus cured two demoniacs (
Matthew 8:28-34).
Jesus cured the paralytic (
Matthew 9:1-8).
Jesus raised the ruler's daughter from the dead (
Matthew 9:18-26).
Jesus cured a woman of an issue of blood (
Luke 8:43-48).
Jesus opened the eyes of two blind men (
Matthew 9:27-31).
Jesus loosened the tongue of a man who could not speak (
Matthew 9:32-33).
Jesus healed an invalid man at the pool called Bethesda (
John 5:1-9).
Jesus restored a withered hand (
Matthew 12:10-13).
Jesus cured a demon-possessed man (
Matthew 12:22).
Jesus fed at least five thousand people (
Matthew 14:15-21).
Jesus healed a woman of Canaan (
Matthew 15:22-28).
Jesus cured a deaf and mute man (
Mark 7:31-37).
Jesus fed at least four thousand people (
Matthew 15:32-39).
Jesus opened the eyes of a blind man (
Mark 8:22-26).
Jesus cured a boy who was plagued by a demon (
Matthew 17:14-21).
Jesus opened the eyes of a man born blind (
John 9:1-38)
Jesus cured a woman who had been afflicted eighteen years (
Luke 13:10-17).
Jesus cured a man of dropsy (
Luke 14:1-4).
Jesus cleansed ten lepers (
Luke 17:11-19).
Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead (
John 11:1-46).
Jesus opened the eyes of two blind men (
Matthew 20:30-34).
Jesus caused the fig tree to wither (
Matthew 21:18-22).
Jesus restored the ear of the high priest's servant (
Luke 22:50-51).
Jesus rose from the dead (
Luke 24:5-6).
The second great haul of fishes (
John 21:1-14).
 
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Archie the Preacher

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Skywriter, there are three 'kinds' of miracles.

First: The sort of thing we call miracles. "The miracle of life", speaking of a newborn baby, or the baby growing in the mother. Actually, it's a pretty 'ordinary' miracle in some regards. Not that 'we' (humanity) can explain it, but it does happen rather frequently.

Second: The sort of thing which cannot be explained through ordinary, rational thought. Jesus walking on the water comes to mind. Of course, there are some attempts at explanations, but they tend to fall flat when examined. Jesus raising various people from death: The daughter of an unnamed 'ruler' in Matthew chapter 9 and others. What can be labelled - and please excuse me - 'flashy' miracles.

Third: Those things that happen which just 'seem to happen'. Like being cured of liver cancer. No one 'sees' it happen, but it's gone! The money which appears when one thinks "I'll never get this paid". This is the common things events that seem 'miraculous' to those who know the inside story, but not to the casual on-looker. Finding one more piece of pizza when needed. That sort of thing.

I agree. There are some things which are unknowable. At least in the sense of solving an equation or demonstrating a chemical reaction. But those who have the inside story are aware 'something' happened outside the normal channels.

Then there are things such as rain. Common, every day water falling from the sky. Not what ordinarily classifies as a miracle, but the timing is notable. And rain happens because the wind, atmospheric humidity and dew point all 'just happened' correctly to cause rain in a certain place at a certain time.

I do not think God is unpredictable in the sense of erratic. Normally, dead people don't come to life and leave their graves or the mortuary. Normally, Tuesday comes after Monday. Normally, one doesn't plant wheat and harvest a Camaro. Normally one doesn't plant wheat on Monday and harvest it on Wednesday of the same week.

But 'stuff happens'. Just usually God doesn't do miracles with a drum roll and a fanfare.

As C. S. Lewis pointed out about the miracle of the wine you cite, God did in a few minutes what normally takes the better part of a year. Which is not to minimize the miracle, but perhaps to emphasize it and make it more personal.

As for 'healing', God heals all, whether done while no one is looking, or with the assistance of six or seven doctors and twenty nurses; three hundred pounds of medicines and a whole hospital full of special equipment. Figuring out how planets or suns are formed does not lessen God's work. Especially when God uses gravity and not bulldozers.
 
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BobRyan

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All the scientific evidence points to an ancient earth. Furthermore, the fossil records support the slow change of species over time, such as dinosaurs to birds. *IF* these things are not true, it would follow that God deliberately created a world with false scientific data. Right? So then this begs the questions...

Did God lie?
And if God lied, why?

What do you believe?

You have very strongly contradicted yourself here.

First you say: "It is an impossibility for God to lie..." which is true, but not for the reason you cite. After claiming God cannot lie, you then paint God as a frivolous, capricious and unreliable Being; that is horribly heretical in substance.

God cannot violate His own nature; alternatively, God cannot NOT be God. It is the only thing God cannot do.

Interesting accusations.
 
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BobRyan

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This is completely unconnected and irrational statement. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is unaffected by the myth of YEC, other than confusing the issue.

hnmm you call the Bible myth and then argue that your view of myth of resurrection is not connected to your view of the Bible account of our Creator God as myth?

I find your logic "illusive" just then.
 
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