Is God a liar?

[Open Heart]

All the scientific evidence points to an ancient earth. Furthermore, the fossil records support the slow change of species over time, such as dinosaurs to birds. *IF* these things are not true, it would follow that God deliberately created a world with false scientific data. Right? So then this begs the questions...

Did God lie?
And if God lied, why?

What do you believe?

 

[juvenissun]

All the scientific evidence points to an ancient earth. Furthermore, the fossil records support the slow change of species over time, such as dinosaurs to birds. *IF* these things are not true, it would follow that God deliberately created a world with false scientific data. Right? So then this begs the questions...

Did God lie?
And if God lied, why?

What do you believe?

There is no if. By definition, God is NOT a liar.

 

[mmksparbud]

It is an impossibility for God to lie---for the simple reason that whatever God says is. If He should say--the sky is purple--it would immediately change to purple--no lie. If He says something will happen--it will, it's just a matter of time. If it's 100 degrees, bright sunny and He says it's snowing and -80---the weather would immediately change.

(Gen 1:1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
(Gen 1:2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It says He created heaven and earth. Then it says the earth was without form and void and the Spirit moved upon the face of the waters-----It doesn't say how much time elapsed between making the earth and God's Spirit moving upon the waters. So how long was this earth with water here before He started creating what was on it??? Could have been eons. However, the rest is explicit--each day of creation consisted of an evening and a morning for a total of 6 days. If people do not want to believe that and prefer to go by what man's science is telling Him instead of God's science, then it's their choice. I prefer to take Him at His word, no matter what. The bible says the dead know not anything--so if there is a dead person talking to me--I refuse to accept that as fact, no mater what my senses tell me. Satan has his bag of tricks. It says He created light on the first day yet the sun was not created till the 4th day--then that is exactly what happened. He is light. There is also visible and invisible light--look it up. He is not some puny god requiring millions of years to create, His voice is a creative force. How old was Adam at creation?--He wasn't a baby with a blank mind, he named the animals--how old would an autopsy say he was? The first trees, how old would they have been, with how many rings?
God said don't eat of the tree, you will die, Satan said, you won't die, it looked good, the minute they ate, their cells began to die, it took over 900 years to finish the job, but it started right away. Postponement is not lying. God told Hezekiah He would die, Hezekiah begged and pleated for more time, God said He'd give Him 15 years more, but die he did. God doesn't lie---Satan does.

 

[miamited]

Hi,

I'm not quite clear on the concept. That man comes to some other conclusion about the creation based on what he believes to be 'scientific reckoning', how does that make God a liar? God is already on record that He will make foolish the wisdom of the wise. Man believes that he can discern the ages of things based on what he believes to be sound scientific data. What if it isn't? Would that make God a liar or man?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Open Heart]

I'm not quite clear on the concept. That man comes to some other conclusion about the creation based on what he believes to be 'scientific reckoning', how does that make God a liar? God is already on record that He will make foolish the wisdom of the wise. Man believes that he can discern the ages of things based on what he believes to be sound scientific data. What if it isn't? Would that make God a liar or man?

Let me give my own answer to my question, and perhaps that will clear things up a bit.

1. God is not a liar. "God is not a man that he should lie." Numbers 23:19
2. The earth has a plethora of overwhelming evidence i.e. that it is ancient: radiometric dating, ice layering, meteor crators, continental drift, Y-chromosomal ancestry, seeing starlight that has taken billions of years to reach us, and so much more. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_against_a_recent_creation
3. If the earth were young, it would mean that God created it with all this "evidence" in tow, thus creating lies ....
THEREFORE
4. Young Earth Creationism cannot be true because it makes God a liar.

 

[seekingsolace]

All the scientific evidence points to an ancient earth. Furthermore, the fossil records support the slow change of species over time, such as dinosaurs to birds. *IF* these things are not true, it would follow that God deliberately created a world with false scientific data.

Did God create scientific data? since that's a human observation. Just as many religions are not created by God. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the OP, but the principle of presupposed knowledge inferred.

 

[Open Heart]

Did God create scientific data?

Yes, the data is part of the Earth and universe which God created.

 

[seekingsolace]

Yes, the data is part of the Earth and universe which God created.

You missed out the part afterwards - "since that's a human observation." Creating nature is one thing, human understanding of said nature is a different thing.

 

[Open Heart]

You missed out the part afterwards - "since that's a human observation." Creating nature is one thing, human understanding of said nature is a different thing.

The data seems clear, and it is coming from innumerable sources, not just one or two. It doesn't seem reasonable to say that human observation is skewing the data.

 

[seekingsolace]

The data seems clear, and it is coming from innumerable sources, not just one or two. It doesn't seem reasonable to say that human observation is skewing the data.

Does reason supersede deity?

 

[Willtor]

Does reason supersede deity?

It should at least call into question whether we've understood God rightly.

 

[Percivale]

Also, God created out minds, our ability to reason and deduce conclusions from evidence. Making our minds such that they would consistently misinterpret the evidence in one specific direction would also be an act of deception. And the same parts of our minds that we use to determine from science that the earth is old are used to understand what the words of the Bible mean and how to translate them from their original language and setting into ours. So if human reasoning is not reliable on an issue even if all educated and unbiased thinkers reach the same conclusion, how can you rely on your mind to understand what the Bible means?

 

[seekingsolace]

Also, God created out minds, our ability to reason and deduce conclusions from evidence. Making our minds such that they would consistently misinterpret the evidence in one specific direction would also be an act of deception. And the same parts of our minds that we use to determine from science that the earth is old are used to understand what the words of the Bible mean and how to translate them from their original language and setting into ours. So if human reasoning is not reliable on an issue even if all educated and unbiased thinkers reach the same conclusion, how can you rely on your mind to understand what the Bible means?

Nobody said human reasoning is without use, but human reasoning cannot define the spiritual unknown. To use the deduction that because the Bible is read by a human, it must be based on reasoning is false. Understanding the bible is not based on human reasoning. Spiritual discernment is not physical observation.

I Corinthians 2:14: "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

2 Timothy 3:16: "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

1 Corinthians 1:20-25: "Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

Isaiah 55:8-9
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[SkyWriting]

1. God is not a liar. "God is not a man that he should lie." Numbers 23:19
2. The earth has a plethora of overwhelming evidence i.e. that it is ancient: radiometric dating, ice layering, meteor crators, continental drift, Y-chromosomal ancestry, seeing starlight that has taken billions of years to reach us, and so much more. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_against_a_recent_creation
3. If the earth were young, it would mean that God created it with all this "evidence" in tow, thus creating lies ....
THEREFORE
4. Young Earth Creationism cannot be true because it makes God a liar.

You then must eliminate the resurrection as a lie, which I refuse to do.
Sorry.

 

[SkyWriting]

It should at least call into question whether we've understood God rightly.

And those wacky stories about Jesus.

 

[SkyWriting]

The data seems clear, and it is coming from innumerable sources, not just one or two. It doesn't seem reasonable to say that human observation is skewing the data.

If God intervened in the past, "science" could not show it. Science can only work with reproducible events.

 

[Smidlee]

I guess the OP doesn't know about optical illusions? What the OP is assuming is the universe revolves around man's intellect. God warns us not to lean on our own understanding. Now the bible tell us to get understanding just like you suppose to work to get money yet you shouldn't put your trust in your own intellect or money, etc.

This is the very thing that got Adam into trouble, he put trust in his own ways and started a fig leaf clothing store.

It's a scientific fact that man is a timelord in his own creation. I don't have any trouble believing God can do everything (and more) in his creation that Hollywood can do in theirs. The only thing that director has to do is speak and have bullets flying off Superman's chest.

 

[Willtor]

And those wacky stories about Jesus.

It's hard to talk about an issue when you keep changing the topic. Do you actually read the posts you're quoting?

 

[Open Heart]

You then must eliminate the resurrection as a lie, which I refuse to do.
Sorry.

Why? I don't eliminate the resurrection as a lie. There is no evidence against it.

 

[Willtor]

Why? I don't eliminate the resurrection as a lie. There is no evidence against it.

This! A million times, this!

If we had Jesus' body, we'd conclude that he had not been raised from the dead. We might quibble over exactly what killed him, or when, but it would be unambiguous to everybody who was open to evidence that he had not been raised. We don't have his body. We _do_ have overwhelming evidence against YEC.