Is christian metal really bad????

[faroukfarouk]

I like Disciple's 'Battle Lines': I guess it's more hard rock than heavy metal, but its lyrics are very Biblical.

 

[TMM99]

"I don't understand how you can't take songs like this one, and say thats its bad, or not worshipful to god. What is more worshipful than crying out to god through song!"

LOL! crying out to....satan more like! that's just terrible sounding. It sounds like the guy is about to grab a machette and start hacking people to death! The music is just as bad. I'd prefer to listen to worldly pop music like coldplay than to have to listen to music as nasty as this
That's my opinion and I stand by it. If you like that sort of music then good for you that you get something from it. What I get from it is something negative, that's all I'm saying and if you're offended then that is not what my intention is so please understand that people have opinions on different styles of music, it's nothing personal..

 

[Frenchfrye]

Anyone who says metal is "devil music" needs to define how much distortion can be applied to a clean guitar sound before God steps aside and hands it over to the devil. They could also define how soon after playing one note you're allowed to play the next note before it becomes satanic.

People who say metal is of the devil really don't know what they're talking about. Music is like fire - you can use it to warm yourself at night or you can use it to burn someone's house down. The fire isn't good or evil, only the person ab/using it.

That is the best wording I have ever heard on the subject

 

[TMM99]

The way I see it, you can't sing a lullaby to a baby by screaming at it whilst thrashing about an electric guitar cranked up on a marshal amp. Music honouring our Creator should be artistic, soulful, have creativity that captures ones spirit and lifts them to natural worship. Music for other reasons like exposing evil can have dynamics of portrayals of darkness, using sound artistically to explain things is brilliant but screaming endlessly about your faith is for me totally un-edifying..

 

[TMM99]

"The fire isn't good or evil, only the person ab/using it."

Music influences people strongly.. All that screaming is not good for the soul! It is certainly demonic. You know a tree by its fruits. What fruit comes from this music? bad fruit, the mind soaking up constant screams, nasty aggressive sounds with over loud ear damaging music. Not good for the soul, trust me.. I'm a music doctor

 

[anewman1993]

"I don't understand how you can't take songs like this one, and say thats its bad, or not worshipful to god. What is more worshipful than crying out to god through song!"

LOL! crying out to....satan more like! that's just terrible sounding. It sounds like the guy is about to grab a machette and start hacking people to death! The music is just as bad. I'd prefer to listen to worldly pop music like coldplay than to have to listen to music as nasty as this
That's my opinion and I stand by it. If you like that sort of music then good for you that you get something from it. What I get from it is something negative, that's all I'm saying and if you're offended then that is not what my intention is so please understand that people have opinions on different styles of music, it's nothing personal..

Its terrible sounding TO YOU. Some people can't stand classical music, that doesn't mean its of the devil, some peoples ears physically hurt when they hear pop music, that doesn't mean its of the devil. I can tell you this, as a 100% FACT. On a purely musical level, metal by and large is more musical and requires I higher level of technicality to play than pop music. I say that as someone who is majoring in composition, which consist of lots of music analyst. I write chamber music (string quartets, orchestra music, ect.) I'm not some random guy who has no clue what consist of good music. My entire education literally removes around figuring out what good music consist of.

You keep saying that its "just opinion" and its not. You are saying that certain styles of music, are inherently bad. Thats simply not true. Thats like saying that certain types of paint are evil, no mater what is painted with them. I don't really care if you like metal, its an acquired taste. What I care is that your spreading false teachings that aren't in the bible. metal is not bad(morally) IS A LIE. When you say that, you are pushing away people who need jesus but don't want want to hear because you are spouting legalistic nonsense.


Example of the guitar playing

2011.04.19 In The Midst of Lions - Herod's Demise (Live in Bloomington, IL) - YouTube

Example of drums

The Break Down Series - Matt Greiner plays Provision - YouTube

 

[anewman1993]

The way I see it, you can't sing a lullaby to a baby by screaming at it whilst thrashing about an electric guitar cranked up on a marshal amp. Music honouring our Creator should be artistic, soulful, have creativity that captures ones spirit and lifts them to natural worship. Music for other reasons like exposing evil can have dynamics of portrayals of darkness, using sound artistically to explain things is brilliant but screaming endlessly about your faith is for me totally un-edifying..

Well, I have a friend thats a youth pastor, and him and his wife had his kid listening to for today,a christian metal band, while still in the womb. That kid DOES fall asleep when listening to metal, much more than any lullaby (which my friend finds absolutely hilarious)

You also saying that metal isn't artistic, sorry buddy, thats simply not true, in fact, by and large its extremely technical and requires a large amount of skill to play. I'm also a metal vocalist, yes, I scream, it took me 8 years to get my voice to where it is, to where I could do that for hours upon hours a day without ill effect, I also take classical singing lessons and I'm in the choir on campus. I may not have the best singing voice, but no one has every said anything along the lines of it being messed up. Its extremely hard to do correctly, don't speak about what you do not know about.

"The fire isn't good or evil, only the person ab/using it."

Music influences people strongly.. All that screaming is not good for the soul! It is certainly demonic. You know a tree by its fruits. What fruit comes from this music? bad fruit, the mind soaking up constant screams, nasty aggressive sounds with over loud ear damaging music. Not good for the soul, trust me.. I'm a music doctor

You say its not good for you soul, thats not a fact. Its NOT demonic, that is a false teaching, it has NO basis whatsoever in the bible. You know what good for my souls? releasing my emotions through music, maybe you have never felt true pain in your life, maybe you have never dealt with real agony, I have, and you know what, I can't cry out to god in a pretty little worship song and come anywhere CLOSE to truly expressing the wonder of him, the holyness of him, or his greatness. I can't express the gutrenching knowledge of how bad my sins are in a little church hymn (many which are based of tavern songs, so, yea, how is that any better than metal)

 

[TMM99]

Luke 6:44 "for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush."

 

[Lord Of The Forest]

Good energy, bad energy... This sounds awfully subject and new age to me.

There's a lot of extreme metal that grates on my nerves, and most 'praise & worship' music that grates on my nerves.

While I do agree that the intent of the musician is important, I also would ask why someone (a Christian) would make music sounding like cacophonous noise. It could be argued that I don't have the ear for it (which I probably don't), but I would still like someone to identify why they like or make this sort of music.

Some of the anti-rock and metal biases in the Christian community can be traced to the book, Music in the Balance. Which has been repeatedly debunked by reviewers on Amazon and elsewhere.

My mind isn't closed to thrash, sludge, gore, death, and black metal, but I'd enjoy reading a professor of music's opinion on its technical qualities--or lack of same.

 

[TMM99]

"Good energy, bad energy... This sounds awfully subject and new age to me"

Sound has energy does it not? It has a force, it makes you feel, it creates mood right? Ultimately it is emotional, it has energy, they are called sound-waves. This is not new age, but you are entitled to your own opinion.

Back to music affecting mood. These thrash metal songs are aggressive, angry, and really nasty sounding. The vocalists must think that our Creator is somewhat deaf! Someone said earlier that I probably haven't had any pain in my life because if I did I would relate to this music. They couldn't be more wrong.

The way I see it. People here who are into thrash metal are supposed to be Christians, are supposed to have the Messiah in their lives, hearts and to put His teachings into action. They are supposed to be freed from their chains, healed from past hurts, to not go back but forward, but, that takes repentance to complete and going by some of the shouting and tone of anger in some of the comments, maybe they still like this music because they fail to complete their side of the requirements of being a disciple of the Messiah. You are supposed to find peace, if you find peace in thrash metal then read the scriptures...

Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Matthew 6:22-23
"The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. "But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!…

 

[Lord Of The Forest]

Good/bad energy are new age buzzwords/terms; this cannot be disputed.

Your first principles, I believe, are flawed. To say that some music triggers a negative response in a person is true; to attribute the negative response to sound waves is logical fallacy and sidesteps the human equation. I mentioned that the praise and worship genre annoys me and leaves me susceptible to a bad attitude. Wouldn't this genre of music put forth the 'good energy'?

In the end, I believe the crux of the argument hinges upon personal taste.

Again, most extreme metal (most metal, really) not my style, but if a professor of music could demonstrate that these sorts of metal are indeed well-constructed (might I even say legitimate) forms of music, then I would concede that a musician who creates music covered by the death metal genre is producing a fine musical product, albeit different than one created by Bach or Haydn.


You have begun with the assumption that some metal is inherently evil. This assumption has established your paradigm and colours your arguments and thoughts.

Assumptions are important; we can scarcely function without them. Nevertheless, it will make proceeding in this discussion exceedingly difficult and, in all likelihood, fruitless.

I hope you have a wonderful day.

 

[anewman1993]

Ok let me try this a different way. You keep saying it sounds demonic. WHAT MAKES IT SOUND DEMONIC!

Seriously, If you are going to say it sound demonic then you need to be able to tell me what SPECIFICALLY makes it sound demonic. What intervals are we not allowed to use in worship because they sound demonic. What beats are we not allowed to stress, how fast is to fast.

Screaming. What makes screaming sound demonic. If anything, a beautiful voice sounds closer to demonic than a screaming one. Satan and demons are BEAUTIFUL creatures. I beilve the bible says the Lucifer was the most beautiful angle before he fell. Angels and demons are the same creature, just on opposite sides in the war. The phrase "sounds demonic" is idiotic. What makes it sound demonic? When demons interfer in life to drive people away to god, they do so by appearing beautiful, trying to make a person belive that the sin is a pretty thing, so how can it be bad? There is NOTHING demonic about screaming. you need to get off your high horse. You don't like it, thats fine, but to say its demonic has as much credence as me saying anything with a drumset in it is demonic.

 

[TMM99]

"You have begun with the assumption that some metal is inherently evil"

If you think screaming repeatedly with a growling demonic sounding voice is anything other than evil then I am bowing out of this thread for now.. demonic as in not sounding very pleasant, because it isn't! and demons aren't pleasant beings.

"Satan and demons are BEAUTIFUL creatures"

*sigh* satan and demons are beautiful? I rest my case because if you think they are beautiful creatures then no wonder you like that type of music..I shall definitely bow out now..

(Just for the heads-up, Lucifer was the king of Tyre
Peace out!

 

[anewman1993]

Again, most extreme metal (most metal, really) not my style, but if a professor of music could demonstrate that these sorts of metal are indeed well-constructed (might I even say legitimate) forms of music, then I would concede that a musician who creates music covered by the death metal genre is producing a fine musical product, albeit different than one created by Bach or Haydn.

I'm not a professor, but a music major, so maybe I can help with that.
(I should add, not all the examples are christian music, since we are talking about the quality of music not the message in this instance)

First we need to look at genre. There are MANY genre of metal, many MANY sub genres. This is a song from a sub genre called "symphonic metal"

Epica - Sensorium (studio) HQ - YouTube

This is considered Folk metal, heavily influenced from folk music in Europe. They use traditional instruments and actually sang some pieces in Gaulish ( a deal languge, they brought scholoars in to makes sure grammer and pronuctation and stuff was right, though this song is english)

ELUVEITIE - A Rose For Epona (OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO) - YouTube

Below is folk/viking metal

Turisas-End of an Empire [Lyrics] - YouTube

So ok, so hopefully you will understand at this point that metal is a very....broad..... genre of music. Which makes it a little difficult to hone in on if its skillful. So yea, I'm going to be pulling from all over the place. From the stuff you might think of when thinking of metal, to stuff you wouldn't. Also, if you have any sort of background in music it will probably help with explaining things.

Techinque/technicality

Metal, by and large, takes a higher level of musicianship to play. Even in my "music health" courses they acknowledged that metal is typically requires more physical energy to play and results in a much higher heartbeat and cardio working when playing.

Thats not to say there is simplistic metal. However most bands that are simple are VERY looked down by the community, and are typically just listened to by kids who are going through a "metal phase" as rebellion, rather than because they actually love the art. About the simplest Ive heard and that is held in high esteem is probably Bring me the horizon.

(warning, weird dancing :/)

Bring Me The Horizon - "Can You Feel My Heart" - YouTube

That said, every band generally has SOMETHING special, that band has a great vocalist. He does pitched screams which means they have to be on a pitch like with singing, VERY hard to pull off (I say that as a vocalist myself, I'll get to that in a minute).

GUITAR

Guitar work in metal for the most part, consist of more than just chugging on power chords. Below are 2 videos The first is metalcore, generally considered to be a little pop sounding and less techincal, though this band breaks that mold.

Son of the Morning by Oh Sleeper - Shane's playalong and explanation - YouTube

This starts at the solo section near the end of a song from their first album (its a live video)

2011.04.19 In The Midst of Lions - Herod's Demise (Live in Bloomington, IL) - YouTube

DRUMS

Drumming in metal is very difficult. Don't take my word for it, go find someone who plays drums and is VERY good. Ask them how hard drumming typically is in metal. By and large, the best of the best drummers end up in either jazz or metal.

The Break Down Series - Matt Greiner plays Provision - YouTube

Style changes/experimental

Metal bands will frequently change up and mix in other styles.They also generally are down with experimenting. Sometimes subtly, sometimes not. August burns red is another good example of this

Skip about a minute into this

The Break Down Series - Matt Greiner plays Provision - YouTube

This is the intro to one metal band (in one song the have like, trombones and stuff, its sick!)

The Resonant Frequency of Flesh- Becoming The Archetype - YouTube

Pop metal, kinda a mix of the 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DbAruY9z-w

I have no idea what theory structure this band is working under. I'm convinced they have their own system outside of traditional western theory.

THE DILLINGER ESCAPE PLAN - "Milk Lizard" (Official Music Video) - YouTube

This band mixes lots of stuff together, and is classified as "avant garde" metal.

Exit Strategy of a Wrecking Ball - Diablo Swing Orchestra - YouTube

This is like that last band on steroids. LOTS of stuff we talked about in upper level theory classes. Micro tonal parts ( playing notes that are in between piano keys), lots of texturals, complex rhythms , ect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2rnEZ9JRN0

This one is a little easier on the ears if you arn't use to that type of music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46U2y-lO344

Screaming

I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this. If you don't like it you don't, if your forced yourself to listen to it , then it would grow on you (like it did with my brother) but you probably don't want to do that. Ive written enough. I'm a vocalist, I have played classical piano for 14 years, I'm majoring in music. I take classical voice lessons. Just take me at my word on this, learning to scream is incredibly hard, you have to do it a certain way to not destroy your voice, to improve range, to manipulate textures. despite how it sounds, when done right, its a very cold, calculating, and controlled sound that WILL NOT destroy your voice.

I'm going to be done, here is a typical metalcore song to end it with, probably a lot easier to listen to then some of that stuff

Memphis May Fire - No Ordinary Love (Official Music Video) - YouTube

 

[anewman1993]

"
*sigh* satan and demons are beautiful? I rest my case because if you think they are beautiful creatures then no wonder you like that type of music..I shall definitely bow out now..

(Just for the heads-up, Lucifer was the king of Tyre
Peace out!

Thats what the bible says, now your arguing against the bible. I know the verse your talking about, look at how it describes the devil.

If the devil and his minions were not good looking people would not follow them. I'm not saying good, they are evil, but much of the time evil LOOKS good. which is what your arguing against. But i'm done, please continue to lead people away from the gosple with your legalistic nonsense, its leading people to hell, thats on your head.

 

[TMM99]

Lucifer was the (human) king of Tyre, do your research.. and demons are not beautiful, they are the monstrous spirits of the Nephilim, there is no good in them, that's why the Messiah cast them out.. ~()()():~ !

" leading people to hell, thats on your head. " I don't think so. I'm giving people scriptures............not thrash death metal!

Legalistic? pfft! I'd rather be legal than lawless..

Matthew 19:17
And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

Revelation 22:14
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

 

[Lord Of The Forest]

If you think screaming repeatedly with a growling demonic sounding voice is anything other than evil then I am bowing out of this thread for now.. demonic as in not sounding very pleasant, because it isn't! and demons aren't pleasant beings.

I'm not talking about the vocals, I'm talking about the music itself... Elend is a neoclassical ensemble with classical vocals as well as screams. Vocals aside, their music is well made... and the vocals are fitting given their subject matter. I suppose one could be argue vocals are another instrument contributing to the whole.

*sigh* satan and demons are beautiful? I rest my case because if you think they are beautiful creatures then no wonder you like that type of music..I shall definitely bow out now..

(Just for the heads-up, Lucifer was the king of Tyre

Agreed.

First we need to look at genre. There are MANY genre of metal, many MANY sub genres. This is a song from a sub genre called "symphonic metal"

This is considered Folk metal, heavily influenced from folk music in Europe. They use traditional instruments and actually sang some pieces in Gaulish ( a deal languge, they brought scholoars in to makes sure grammer and pronuctation and stuff was right, though this song is english)

I'm well-versed in the symphonic and folk metal genres; it's the majority of the metal I've listened to for the last six years.... Did you listen to the song I linked to a few posts ago? Just as metal has subgenres, so do languages-- Eluveitie's preferred language is Helvetic Gaulish.

Thats what the bible says, now your arguing against the bible. I know the verse your talking about, look at how it describes the devil.

If the devil and his minions were not good looking people would not follow them. I'm not saying good, they are evil, but much of the time evil LOOKS good. which is what your arguing against. But i'm done, please continue to lead people away from the gosple with your legalistic nonsense, its leading people to hell, thats on your head.

Remember what I said about assumptions? Try reading Isaiah fourteen and Ezekiel twenty-eight without the assumption that it's talking about Satan, and it sounds like the prophets are talking about the kings of Babylon and Tyre respectively.

Also, I'm not sure it's entirely fair to be saying TMM99's opinions on metal are going to be leading people to Hell. It may be legalism, but it's a far more benign legalism than some I've seen.


Okay, I'm off. God's blessings to you all.

 

[contango]

I'd prefer to do other things with my time than sort through demonic sounding Christian thrash metal music thanks! I don't care about the content of lyrics, it is the constant heavy sound and energy that is created with all that horrible and un-edifying screaming and noise. They could scream all they want about their faith, it just doesn't gel with me, that's all..

I have an opinion, so do you, they are in opposition so lets bow out and continue with our days If you enjoy the music that I find terrible then I respect that, but you should respect that I do not like it. I like some Christian metal, not much though, I still haven't heard that special band that can be simply original.. but that goes for all bands, there just aren't many who are original sounding :/

My issue isn't with your personal choice to not listen to a particular style of music. If there were nothing more to the discussion than "I like it" against "I dislike it" then I'd agree entirely that we just have two different subjective opinions on something not worth discussing any further. In that regard whether the topic was whether death metal is enjoyable to listen to or whether garlic cheese on blueberry bagels tastes good.

My problem is when you use terms like "demonic sounding" and "bad energy" because as soon as you refer to music as "demonic sounding" the implication is that it is inherently a bad thing. That's a very different statement to merely expressing a personal dislike of the genre. If you want to say something sounds "demonic" you really need to come up with a useful definition for what is, and what is not, demonic. Otherwise you're lost somewhere between a heavy implication that something is universally evil and a relatively trivial observation that you don't happen to like it.

 

[contango]

"You have begun with the assumption that some metal is inherently evil"

If you think screaming repeatedly with a growling demonic sounding voice is anything other than evil then I am bowing out of this thread for now.. demonic as in not sounding very pleasant, because it isn't! and demons aren't pleasant beings.

Here you're back to suggesting, if not outright stating, that metal is inherently evil. That's a far cry from your alternating assertion that what is under discussion is nothing more than personal preference.

The difference is huge, it's like the difference between discussing whether the blue shirt works with the green pants, and discussing whether or not having an affair at work is spiritually advisable.

Perhaps now would be a good time to clarify just what you're trying to say. Are you trying to say that you don't care for death metal, or that it's inherently evil and no Christian should be listening to it?

 

[TMM99]

I've said enough regarding my stance on the subject which was not about 'metal' it was about 'thrash death metal' and would prefer to bow out of this thread for now as my opinion obviously is a 'problem' for others and I don't want to continue to cause distension over and over again. My stance is strong; I not only do not care for death metal but would go as far as saying I attempt to steer others away from that type of music, and instead turn them to obey the teachings of the Messiah, for the sake of their own souls. End of....
Peace out!