is Calvinism holding the church back?

[boswd]

I keep trying to find it, but they keep moving.

Pesky traler's, they do have to be one step ahead of the Fed's

 

[Albion]

ahh typo's it's late give me a break.

Now I have to go back and clean it up.

"Congregationals" is a supposed to be a typo?

But OK, I shouldn't have needled you. However, the whole idea of naming denominations and talking Free Will vs Predestinarianism or who's in these "camps" is way off the subject. This goes back to a post by Mont, not originally by Trader Jack, and Mont he said that religious liberalism is the challenge of our times, not Free Will or Predestinarianism. He had a point.

 

[boswd]

You mean I had one right? LOL

I agree with you 100% and it was in response to Trader Jack's ideal that it is the Free Will Church's that have allowed for all this "liberalism" to find it's way into Christianity, I was just pointing out that it was the Reformed Church's who made some of the most "Liberal" moves in their Church's.

 

[Albion]

You mean I had one right? LOL

Well, I'd like to say that, but the word is "Congregationalists." "Congregationals" doesn't seem, therefore, to be an actual typo.

I agree with you 100% and it was in response to Trader Jack's ideal that it is the Free Will Church's that have allowed for all this "liberalism" to find it's way into Christianity, I was just pointing out that it was the Reformed Church's who made some of the most "Liberal" moves in their Church's.

As I read Trader Jack's two posts on this subject, I don't find that he makes Free Will churches vs Predestinarians part of his overview of liberalism at all. He spoke ill of political correctness and the ecumenical movement, also of Pelagianism, which doesn't correlate with either Free Will churches or Predestinarian churches. IOW, I don't find the bolded part above in his posts here. Did I miss it?

 

[TraderJack]

Originally Posted by TraderJack

What we have witnessed is the pelagian and semi-pelagian takeover of the visible church, both rejecting the Sovereignty, Holiness and Free Will of God, in favor of exalting man's will. Seems a serpent told the woman something like that in the beginning.
​

Ohhh It's the Free Will Church's that have helped give away to all this Liberalism going in the Christian Church's? That's pretty funny since homosexuality tolerance among the clergy and among marriage began in the Reformed Church's, The Congregational, the Presbyterians, and to a certain degree the Episcopalians.

Well since your strawman has no relationship to my comment, it is reduced to a non sequitur.

Last I checked gay clergy and gay marriages were not allowed or condoned in the UMC, The RCC the Orthodox the Free Will Baptist, Assem. of God etc.

Those you named above are apostates, proving they, like "free will libertines" exalt the will of man above that of God.

It seems it's your camp that has the problem

Non sequitur.

Those you named are not in our "camp".

 

[TraderJack]

I agree with you 100% and it was in response to Trader Jack's ideal that it is the Free Will Church's that have allowed for all this "liberalism" to find it's way into Christianity, I was just pointing out that it was the Reformed Church's who made some of the most "Liberal" moves in their Church's.

As I read Trader Jack's two posts on this subject, I don't find that he makes Free Will churches vs Predestinarians part of his overview of liberalism at all. He spoke ill of political correctness and the ecumenical movement, also of Pelagianism, which doesn't correlate with either Free Will churches or Predestinarian churches. IOW, I don't find the bolded part above in his posts here. Did I miss it?

Now you have gone and ruined a perfectly good delusion he had going.

It's just not nice today to point out someone's fallacy derived from seeing things that do not exist.

Didn't you get the PC memo?

By the way, good to seeya bro. I hope all is well with you and yours.

 

[TraderJack]

You mean I had one right? LOL

I agree with you 100% and it was in response to Trader Jack's ideal that it is the Free Will Church's that have allowed for all this "liberalism" to find it's way into Christianity, I was just pointing out that it was the Reformed Church's who made some of the most "Liberal" moves in their Church's.

I said nothing about "Free Will Church's" having "allowed for all this liberalism".

So, please refrain from blatantly misrepresenting what I said by making things up from whole cloth and attributing them to me.

Try reading what is actually said instead of seeing things that do not exist.

 

[boswd]

I said nothing about "Free Will Church's" having "allowed for all this liberalism".

So, please refrain from blatantly misrepresenting what I said by making things up from whole cloth and attributing them to me.

Try reading what is actually said instead of seeing things that do not exist.

Have you not repeatedly refered to Methodist and Catholics and anyone else who is of the Free Will Theology as semi-pelagian? And in your statement you blamed the so called "semi-paelgain" groups for the state of Christianity.

But what you don't address in what many consider to be the biggest act of Liberalism in Christianity is the acceptance of homosexuality. And that has torn apart the Calvinist Church's. You can choose to ignore it all you want but that is the truth.

 

[TraderJack]

Have you not repeatedly refered to Methodist and Catholics and anyone else who is of the Free Will Theology as semi-pelagian? And in your statement you blamed the so called "semi-paelgain" groups for the state of Christianity.

But what you don't address in what many consider to be the biggest act of Liberalism in Christianity is the acceptance of homosexuality. And that has torn apart the Calvinist Church's. You can choose to ignore it all you want but that is the truth.

Another example of you seeing things that do not exist.

There are doctors who can give you something for that.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Another example of you seeing things that do not exist.

There are doctors who can give you something for that.

These may work [need to change this to Obama now I think ehehe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0GxyZCVc5M&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NimgvwDO2CI&feature=related

 

[boswd]

What we have witnessed is the pelagian and semi-pelagian takeover of the visible church, both rejecting the Sovereignty, Holiness and Free Will of God, in favor of exalting man's will. Seems a serpent told the woman something like that in the beginning.

So who exactly are the pelagian and semi-pelagian people you are referring to. I know in the past you have repeatedly referred to the UMC and the RCC as semi-pelagians.

so who are you refferring to in this statement.

Also what do you think of the issue of homosexuality that has torn apart the Calvinist church's

Thanks

 

[TraderJack]

Also what do you think of the issue of homosexuality that has torn apart the Calvinist church's

There you go seeing things that do not exist again.

 

[JimfromOhio]

There you go seeing things that do not exist again.

I agree. I was in Reformed for awhile (I still do but not as a 5 point Calvinist). They do but in a different way.

 

[Albion]

Also what do you think of the issue of homosexuality that has torn apart the Calvinist church's

Thanks

Has it? I have not noticed that the Reformed Churches have split into rival denominations recently (that's when the issue of homosexual clergy and "marriages" surfaced) as the Episcopal Church and some others have.

 

[boswd]

Seeing things that don't exist? Hmm maybe you should open your eyes to your own backyard instead of peering in and judging others. Your Calvinist Church's have been growing further apart because of liberal issues. Time to take the rose colored glasses off.

Congretionalist - The CCCC and the United Church of Christ. Not united because of the gay issues.

Presbyterian - how many have felt the need to change from the PC(USA) to other more conservative ones like PC of America. Whenever you have members leaving it tears at the heart of a congregation.

Both were the first Mainstream Church's to adopt these liberal thinkings and guess what they were Calvinist.

 

[Albion]

Seeing things that don't exist? Hmm maybe you should open your eyes to your own backyard instead of peering in and judging others. Your Calvinist Church's have been growing further apart because of liberal issues. Time to take the rose colored glasses off.

Oh please. I asked if there have been splits among the Reformed churches over this particular issue. If you don't know of any--which is apparent from this rambling non-answer--you are admitting that you don't. I don't either.

Congretionalist - The CCCC and the United Church of Christ. Not united because of the gay issues.

The few churches that are still called Congregationalist declined to go into the UCC when it was formed A HALF CENTURY AGO. It had nothing to do with homosexual clergy or unions.

Presbyterian - how many have felt the need to change from the PC(USA) to other more conservative ones like PC of America. Whenever you have members leaving it tears at the heart of a congregation.

Again, the PCA was formed for a different reason. So it's one more case of a split not caused by the gay issue.

Both were the first Mainstream Church's to adopt these liberal thinkings and guess what they were Calvinist.

Oh, "Liberal thinkings?" But we weren't talking about that. You said it was about homosexuality ("That's pretty funny since homosexuality tolerance among the clergy and among marriage began in the Reformed Church's, The Congregational, the Presbyterians, and to a certain degree the Episcopalians).

 

[peace4ever]

Has it? I have not noticed that the Reformed Churches have split into rival denominations recently (that's when the issue of homosexual clergy and "marriages" surfaced) as the Episcopal Church and some others have.

It hasn't split out church. But it has split Arminian churches like the Lutherans.

 

[Rick Otto]

is Calvinism holding the church back?

Not soteriologicaly, at least.

 

[JacksLadder]

Seeing things that don't exist? Hmm maybe you should open your eyes to your own backyard instead of peering in and judging others. Your Calvinist Church's have been growing further apart because of liberal issues. Time to take the rose colored glasses off.

Congretionalist - The CCCC and the United Church of Christ. Not united because of the gay issues.

Presbyterian - how many have felt the need to change from the PC(USA) to other more conservative ones like PC of America. Whenever you have members leaving it tears at the heart of a congregation.

Both were the first Mainstream Church's to adopt these liberal thinkings and guess what they were Calvinist.

Come on boswd your soon to be conversion is showing. I blame the those liberal Jesuits

 

[Rick Otto]

Soteriologicaly, it is the only clean spot an otherwise leperous face.