is Calvinism holding the church back?

[unbreakablelight]

there seems to be a consistent theme within the discussion of Calvinism/Calvinists...

"Humanity is completely incompetent, completely useless and completely incapable of any good"

I've also noticed this coming from Calvinist sermons as well

I truly believe that we are living in the most important time in all of history and that the church has a lot of work to do and it needs to believe in itself and the amazing gift that God has given us

we need to be diligent to work towards completion(which is only possible with God's grace)

to me it seems as though Calvinism creates an excuse for weaknesses and even attempts to hold us down in a negative mindset

we are God's creation and that in itself is evidence of our worth and ability

 

[JimfromOhio]

there seems to be a consistent theme within the discussion of Calvinism/Calvinists...

"Humanity is completely incompetent, completely useless and completely incapable of any good"

I've also noticed this coming from Calvinist sermons as well

I truly believe that we are living in the most important time in all of history and that the church has a lot of work to do and it needs to believe in itself and the amazing gift that God has given us

we need to be diligent to work towards completion(which is only possible with God's grace)

to me it seems as though Calvinism creates an excuse for weaknesses and even attempts to hold us down in a negative mindset

we are God's creation and that in itself is evidence of our worth and ability

I think you misunderstood what Calvinist teaches. I followed Reformed Theology where Calvinism doctrines come from. I don't really agree some of the Calvinist doctrines.

Many of Calvinists we know who are great Christians:
Dr. James Kennedy who died not too long ago. He was a pastor for Coral Ridge. Now one of Billy Graham's grandsons is leading the church.

Others are:
J I Packer
John MacArthur
John Piper
Alistair Begg
Jonathan Edwards
Martyn Lloyd-Jones
Francis Schaeffer
RC Sproul
Charles Spurgeon

and many others


Anyway, it appears that way you are saying that "self" in the flesh should be working as in merit(Arminianism) rather than God's grace through us in Spirit that we are to grow in Christ.

 

[unbreakablelight]

I think you misunderstood what Calvinist teaches. I followed Reformed Theology where Calvinism doctrines come from. I don't really agree some of the Calvinist doctrines.

Many of Calvinists we know who are great Christians:
Dr. James Kennedy who died not too long ago. He was a pastor for Coral Ridge. Now one of Billy Graham's grandsons is leading the church.

Others are:
J I Packer
John MacArthur
John Piper
Alistair Begg
Jonathan Edwards
Martyn Lloyd-Jones
Francis Schaeffer
RC Sproul
Charles Spurgeon

and many others


Anyway, it appears that way you are saying that "self" in the flesh should be working as in merit(Arminianism) rather than God's grace through us in Spirit that we are to grow in Christ.

not at all, I'm saying we need to work on growing in God's grace

Romans 5

20The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more

 

[JimfromOhio]

not at all, I'm saying we need to work on growing in God's grace

Romans 5

20(AQ)The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, (AR)grace abounded all the more

Grace operates without the help of our faith because grace is much more powerful than our faith. God gives us, one by one, the gifts and the graces of the Holy Spirit sufficiently. Grace is a wonderful gift that God has given us. I thank God that gives me faith on my behalf which is through GRACE. According to His grace, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit that being justified by His grace I might be made heir according to the hope of eternal life. In God's Grace that I have great spiritual and eternal freedom to grow.

 

[unbreakablelight]

2 Peter 3

14Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,
15and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
16as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,
18but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

 

[JimfromOhio]

2 Peter 3

14Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,
15and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
16as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,
18but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

I agree with this support from the previous chapter. 2 Peter 1:5-9: make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

 

[MamaZ]

How can calvanism hold the church back?

 

[DD2008]

How can calvanism hold the church back?

It points people to the scriptures, tells them the scriptures are true, and the scriptures point out that there are things man wants to do that are opposed to God, thus man gets upset with the scriptures and ultimately the author thereof because their nature is in opposition to holiness so the scriptures offend them. So, Calvinism holds the Church back from wallowing in sin. Fallen man hates that.

 

[Fenstermacher]

"Humanity is completely incompetent, completely useless and completely incapable of any good"

There's nothing specifically Calvinist about that.

Lutherans believe it too.

Calvinists just seem to be the loudest proponents of this truth today (God bless them).

But, for real though, this is pure Paul and Augustine.

 

[MrPolo]

I think you misunderstood what Calvinist teaches. I followed Reformed Theology where Calvinism doctrines come from. I don't really agree some of the Calvinist doctrines.

Many of Calvinists we know who are great Christians:
Dr. James Kennedy who died not too long ago. He was a pastor for Coral Ridge. Now one of Billy Graham's grandsons is leading the church.

Others are:
J I Packer
John MacArthur
John Piper
Alistair Begg
Jonathan Edwards
Martyn Lloyd-Jones
Francis Schaeffer
RC Sproul
Charles Spurgeon

and many others


Anyway, it appears that way you are saying that "self" in the flesh should be working as in merit(Arminianism) rather than God's grace through us in Spirit that we are to grow in Christ.

I'm pretty sure Begg is Baptist. I know he does not adhere to OSAS whereas the likes of MacArthur does.

 

[Fenstermacher]

I believe Begg is self-identified as a Reformed Baptist. R. C. Sproul certainly holds him in high regard and considers him Reformed.

As for OSAS I don't know. It's possible that Begg holds to the more nuanced and mature Perseverance/Preservation of the Saints view common to the more classically Reformed.

 

[New_Wineskin]

there seems to be a consistent theme within the discussion of Calvinism/Calvinists...

"Humanity is completely incompetent, completely useless and completely incapable of any good"

I've also noticed this coming from Calvinist sermons as well

I truly believe that we are living in the most important time in all of history and that the church has a lot of work to do and it needs to believe in itself and the amazing gift that God has given us

we need to be diligent to work towards completion(which is only possible with God's grace)

to me it seems as though Calvinism creates an excuse for weaknesses and even attempts to hold us down in a negative mindset

we are God's creation and that in itself is evidence of our worth and ability

The "church's" history is evidence that it believed too much in itself and created hardships for many .

I am not a Calvinist . However , I do like the fact that it helps create a countermeasure against the Arminian ideas of constant guilt and sin and needing to work to become righteous . Also , I never liked the implied idea that God won't advance unless they ( Armenians ) act .

Both views can create huge messes and both views can be helpful .

 

[simonthezealot]

I'm pretty sure Begg is Baptist. I know he does not adhere to OSAS whereas the likes of MacArthur does.

that list is missing puritan John Owen and Ravi Z---
a couple of my favorites...

Beggs theology is off on eternal security, you're right.

 

[mont974x4]

Ravi Z and Begg are a couple of my favorites. I listen to them on CSN (radio and podcast) quite often. It's OK to disagree with people on some minor issues, but I am the pastor that just got fired for believing in eternal security. LOL


I don't think Calvinism can hold the church back, but I think man's reliance on itself (Arminianism) does. The problem is the Arminian view leads to works righeousness and it fails to consider a key point. That point being that we cannot be "good enough" to save ourselves but they assume we can be "good enough" to keep ourselves saved.

Of course, this is more a symptom than it is the main issue. The main issue is finding the right balance in the debate between man's responsibility and God's soveriegnty. We certainly have a role to play through the choices we make, but those are made within the realm of His soveriegnty.


We need to focus on what unites us, Christ and the cross as well as the truth that we are all called to obedience.

 

[DD2008]

I am the pastor that just got fired for believing in eternal security. LOL

.

1 Samuel 12:22 ESV
22 For the Lord will not forsake his people, for his great name's sake, because it has pleased the Lord to make you a people for himself.

 

[simonthezealot]

Ravi Z and Begg are a couple of my favorites. I listen to them on CSN (radio and podcast) quite often. It's OK to disagree with people on some minor issues, but I am the pastor that just got fired for believing in eternal security. LOL


I don't think Calvinism can hold the church back, but I think man's reliance on itself (Arminianism) does. The problem is the Arminian view leads to works righeousness and it fails to consider a key point. That point being that we cannot be "good enough" to save ourselves but they assume we can be "good enough" to keep ourselves saved.

Of course, this is more a symptom than it is the main issue. The main issue is finding the right balance in the debate between man's responsibility and God's soveriegnty. We certainly have a role to play through the choices we make, but those are made within the realm of His soveriegnty.


We need to focus on what unites us, Christ and the cross as well as the truth that we are all called to obedience.

Amen... Hello friend

BTW loved your book, it would be useful tool for certain!

 

[mont974x4]

Thanks, brother. I have added a couple more chapters, but now I am knee deep in my next round of classes and prepping for a trip to SD...as well as dealing with some other issues. I do have some notes for addition to the book tho.


In His Service
Jason

 

[simonthezealot]

Thanks, brother. I have added a couple more chapters, but now I am knee deep in my next round of classes and prepping for a trip to SD...as well as dealing with some other issues. I do have some notes for addition to the book tho.


In His Service
Jason

When your done let me know and i'll try and get it printed for you, at cost or free.

 

[mont974x4]

LOL maybe we should wait and see if the finished product is worth printing.

 

[simonthezealot]

Calvinism as a theological philosophy has NEVER been defeated.
Come and listen...
Amazing Grace: The History and Theology of Calvinism - posted by Objektiv One (objektivone) - tangle.com