If you didn't believe in God, would you still think homosexuality was wrong?

[DMagoh]

How does homosexual sex break "love your neighbor as yourself"?

How does sex with a goat break "love your neighbor as yourself"?

(Not comparing homosexuality to inappropriate behavior with animals, just pointing out the flawed logic.)

 

[*Starlight*]

How does sex with a goat break "love your neighbor as yourself"?

(Not comparing homosexuality to inappropriate behavior with animals, just pointing out the flawed logic.)

Well, if you consider the goat your neighbor,then it can break it.... Anyway,

(I'm going to use now one of the favorite lines which fundamentalists use in debates)

You're arguing with the Bible, not with me, because the Bible says that "love your neighbor" sums up the WHOLE law.

 

[DMagoh]

Well, if you consider the goat your neighbor,then it can break it.... Anyway,

(I'm going to use now one of the favorite lines which fundamentalists use in debates)

You're arguing with the Bible, not with me, because the Bible says that "love your neighbor" sums up the WHOLE law.

So then can I have sex with a goat?

(Not comparing homosexuality to inappropriate behavior with animals, just pointing out the flawed logic.)

 

[*Starlight*]

So then can I have sex with a goat?

(Not comparing homosexuality to inappropriate behavior with animals, just pointing out the flawed logic.)

If you're sure it doesn't harm you or the goat in any way....

 

[DMagoh]

If you're sure it doesn't harm you or the goat in any way....

I'm sure Nanny will enjoy it!

 

[*Starlight*]

I'm sure Nanny will enjoy it!

Well, that's good

 

[DMagoh]

Well, that's good

Now that you've told me it's not sin, I'll never have another lonely night!

 

[livingword26]

I believe that homosexuality at least in the context of a loving monogamous relationship cannot be a sin as it does not harm anyone.

None of these things harm anyone else either.

Exo 20:3-4
(3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Exo 20:7
(7) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Exo 20:8
(8) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exo 20:17
(17) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

Transexuality as a medical condition cannot be a sin as it is the same as being born with any illness. It is something that needs to be treated by hormones and/or gender reassignment.

It saddens me to see people who I belive God does not think are sinning, being pushed away from the church. I firmly believe that Jesus would welcome monogamous homosexuals just as much as hetrosexuals and would support transexuals through their transition. I don't have a agenda here, this is what I see when I read the bible.

So I'm going to do my best to tell my other GBLT brothers and sisters that think God hates them that God does love them, and accepts them who they are as the people they are born as. If I am wrong and I have to suffer judgement for it then I shall have to when the time comes. But as I feel God has spoken to me and told me these things are not a sin, then it's not something I am concerned about.

You can think God is telling you whatever you want, but He will not go against what He has already spoken in His word. You are doing no favor to a homosexual by telling them that they are not sinning. What you are doing is taking part in their damnation. Does God love homosexuals? Of course, He loves all sinners, but if a person comes to know the Lord, He will set him free from the bondages of sin, and that is what homosexuality is, a bondage and a sin. The bible is very clear on it.

Eze 33:7-9
(7) And you, son of man, I have set you a watchman to the house of Israel. Therefore you shall hear the Word from My mouth, and warn them from Me.
(8) When I say to the wicked, O wicked one, you shall surely die; if you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked one shall die in his iniquity; but I will require his blood at your hand.
(9) But, if you warn the wicked of his way, to turn from it; if he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity, but you have delivered your soul.

 

[*Starlight*]

Now that you've told me it's not sin, I'll never have another lonely night!

Have fun

And I haven't told you if it is a sin or if it's not I only told you how I'd determine that

 

[DMagoh]

Have fun

And I haven't told you if it is a sin or if it's not I only told you how I'd determine that

So, according to your philosophy, it would not be a sin. Right?

 

[*Starlight*]

I liked your posts here, Kirilov!

So, according to your philosophy, it would not be a sin. Right?

No, according to my philosophy, I have no idea if it's a sin. I've never tried it, and I've never been a goat.

 

[DMagoh]

I liked your posts here, Kirilov!


No, according to my philosophy, I have no idea if it's a sin. I've never tried it, and I've never been a goat.

I thought you're philosophy was...."if it doesnt violate Love Thy Neighbor, it isnt sin". That's what you used to justify homosexual behavior. Is it your rule, or isnt it?

 

[*Starlight*]

I thought you're philosophy was...."if it doesnt violate Love Thy Neighbor, it isnt sin". That's what you used to justify homosexual behavior. Is it your rule, or isnt it?

Yes, it is. But I have no idea if sex with a goat harms anyone. As I said, I've never tried and I don't plan to

 

[IamRedeemed]

As a transexual I can assure you the treatment I underwent was not volentary, it was difficult, emotionally draining, expensive and I didnt want to do it at all.

I have never known the medical field to
"force" these surgeries onto anyone. No one is given this surgery againt their will.
So it was indeed what they term an "elective surgery" aka "voluntary".

"it was difficult, emotionally draining and you "didn't want to do it at all"?

Why do you think that is?
That was your SPIRIT warring AGAINST
your flesh. The fact that you DID do it, is evidence that a part of
you did "want" to do it. The part that won. The flesh.

The world of psychology couldn't do anything to help you. I am not surprised, since it is a SPIRITUAL ATTACK. It can enter in through a psychological trauma, but let's make no mistake about it, it is a spiritual issue.

What you needed the world cannot give you. Because you needed deliverance because of the attack on your mind that caused you to believe that you were the opposite sex trapped in the body you were given.
That is not a mental or a medical condition.

It is an attack on your sound mind, but the root of it is spiritual

You need deliverance.

Unfortunately for my health and well being I had to change my body. And im glad I did as it now matches my brain and I live a happy life.

If I listened to the fundamentalist slant that transexualism was wrong Id be dead by now. I tried suicide before I changed and self harmed a lot. I do neither now.

Im afraid seeing as I actually know what it's like as opposed to having an opinion on something that isnt even mentioned in the bible.

 

[IamRedeemed]

So, then basically you are saying that you have no moral compass. In other words, your mind is so muddied now and everything is so grey, that you cannot distinguish between right and wrong anymore.

Well, you know, God already prophesied that, this is EXACTLY what would happen to those who would refuse to embrace His sound doctrine, but instead make up their own doctrine and follow after those who will preach to their itching ears the kind of doctrine they want to hear, as opposed to Truth.

These are instructions to TRUE Ministers of the Lord for the sakes of the people who the Lord wants to save, but He won't do it against our wills. He isn't a magician, He is a Father. As parents at times we have to let our children do what they will, because they won't listen or do what we say, despite all of our efforts and numerous warnings, so we have to let go. Sometimes that decision results in their death. Many people whom the Lord called will not be with Him in the end, because of their own choices.

2 Timothy 4:2-4
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.


For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Do you see this warning manifesting right in our midst?

Yes, it is. But I have no idea if sex with a goat harms anyone. As I said, I've never tried and I don't plan to

 

[UnitedInChrist]

As a transexual I can assure you the treatment I underwent was not volentary, it was difficult, emotionally draining, expensive and I didnt want to do it at all.

I have never known the medical field to
"force" these surgeries onto anyone. No one is given this surgery againt their will.
So it was indeed what they term an "elective surgery" aka "voluntary".

"it was difficult, emotionally draining and you "didn't want to do it at all"?

Why do you think that is?
That was your SPIRIT warring AGAINST
your flesh. The fact that you DID do it, is evidence that a part of
you did "want" to do it. The part that won. The flesh.

The world of psychology couldn't do anything to help you. I am not surprised, since it is a SPIRITUAL ATTACK. It can enter in through a psychological trauma, but let's make no mistake about it, it is a spiritual issue.

What you needed the world cannot give you. Because you needed deliverance because of the attack on your mind that caused you to believe that you were the opposite sex trapped in the body you were given.
That is not a mental or a medical condition.

It is an attack on your sound mind, but the root of it is spiritual

You need deliverance.

Unfortunately for my health and well being I had to change my body. And im glad I did as it now matches my brain and I live a happy life.

If I listened to the fundamentalist slant that transexualism was wrong Id be dead by now. I tried suicide before I changed and self harmed a lot. I do neither now.

Im afraid seeing as I actually know what it's like as opposed to having an opinion on something that isnt even mentioned in the bible.

Your self righterous judging of others is GROSSLY offensive. You do not know the person that you are talking about, yet you tell them they need deliverence? Please, worry about your own short comings and all that bottled up hatred you have, and focus on your own life. Your postings show that you are not that loving person that you are trying to paint yourself out to be. And as far as YOUR belief with "flesh"..it is the human body. Flesh being what GOD has wrapped you in. I never bought into the fundamentalist philosophy of "sins of the flesh" when they preach about how they are flooded in the holy spirit, and have god in their brain, heart, soul, yet it's all wrapped up in something evil and demonic called "the flesh". Your reasoning isn't that at all since it makes entirely no sense. LONG ago I was told to walk away from those that speak about "sins of the flesh"...it was very smart piece of advice...and I still continue to do so. I wish I didn't read your posts because they enrage me so much..but at the same time I hope they help me b/c it's people like you that need our prayers...

 

[UnitedInChrist]

So, then basically you are saying that you have no moral compass. In other words, your mind is so muddied now and everything is so grey, that you cannot distinguish between right and wrong anymore.

Well, you know, God already prophesied that, this is EXACTLY what would happen to those who would refuse to embrace His sound doctrine, but instead make up their own doctrine and follow after those who will preach to their itching ears the kind of doctrine they want to hear, as opposed to Truth.

These are instructions to TRUE Ministers of the Lord for the sakes of the people who the Lord wants to save, but He won't do it against our wills. He isn't a magician, He is a Father. As parents at times we have to let our children do what they will, because they won't listen or do what we say, despite all of our efforts and numerous warnings, so we have to let go. Sometimes that decision results in their death. Many people whom the Lord called will not be with Him in the end, because of their own choices.

2 Timothy 4:2-4
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.


For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Do you see this warning manifesting right in our midst?

...and once again you are WAY off base with painting God out to be a villian and someone that is condeming and threatening. Fine that that is the way you want to practice your faith, and how you believe God to be..but for many of us, God is God of Love, Compassion and Social Justice. He is accepts all just as they are, and all will ALWAYS be welcome to him. he simply asks that you believe in him, and the kingdom of God is yours. You can believe that to know God and to be with him requires one to past some sort of tests, or meet a list of requirements..but again..that is YOUR way of practicing your faith. It is my no means it is/or isn't the truth. Everyone WILL be with the Lord at the end if they have welcomed him into their life. You comments are nothing short of Spiritual Abuse which is clearly defined as those that continually badger an individual that they are not worthy of God's love. I don't want to speak on this girl's behalf, but I REALLY wish you would leave her alone, and stop be so down right judgemental of her. You are no one to judge less u be judged yourself.

 

[IamRedeemed]

How you come to the conclusion that God is the villian is beyond me.

It is funny that the things that some people attribute to God that make Him a "good judge" in their eyes are the same things they would throw a judge off the bench for in the real world.

You might get the legislation to change God's laws here on earth and make exceptions for rebels but God is a just God and His moral standards, His conditions and His judgments apply to EVERYONE, so just as all of us have to turn from our wicked ways according to God, so do you. There is no special provisions for rebels in the Kingdom. We trade our rebellion and wickedness of our old life in for a new life of holiness and righteousness in Jesus Christ.
We take off our OLD MAN, and Put on Christ.
We honor Him not only with our lips, but with our obedience, making Him LORD of our lives.

If YOU believe God is any other way than He has declared Himself in His Word, then you have created for yourself a FALSE IMAGE aka IDOL, and you worship who you do not know.

Those that worship Him must do so IN SPIRIT and IN TRUTH. John 4:24

If JESUS ISN'T YOUR LORD, HE CAN'T BE YOUR SAVIOR either.

...and once again you are WAY off base with painting God out to be a villian and someone that is condeming and threatening. Fine that that is the way you want to practice your faith, and how you believe God to be..but for many of us, God is God of Love, Compassion and Social Justice. He is accepts all just as they are, and all will ALWAYS be welcome to him. he simply asks that you believe in him, and the kingdom of God is yours. You can believe that to know God and to be with him requires one to past some sort of tests, or meet a list of requirements..but again..that is YOUR way of practicing your faith. It is my no means it is/or isn't the truth. Everyone WILL be with the Lord at the end if they have welcomed him into their life. You comments are nothing short of Spiritual Abuse which is clearly defined as those that continually badger an individual that they are not worthy of God's love. I don't want to speak on this girl's behalf, but I REALLY wish you would leave her alone, and stop be so down right judgemental of her. You are no one to judge less u be judged yourself.

 

[livingword26]

I never bought into the fundamentalist philosophy of "sins of the flesh" when they preach about how they are flooded in the holy spirit, and have god in their brain, heart, soul, yet it's all wrapped up in something evil and demonic called "the flesh".

Rom 7:21-25
(21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
(22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
(23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
(25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


Gal 5:17
(17) For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. And these are contrary to one another; lest whatever you may will, these things you do.

 

[livingword26]

He is accepts all just as they are, and all will ALWAYS be welcome to him. he simply asks that you believe in him, and the kingdom of God is yours.

I really hate being on this side of the debate. God is indeed a God of grace, and He wants all to be saved. But, there is a difference between a person struggling with sin, and a person who has decided that sin is not sin, and God wants them to stay that way. Indeed God accepts everyone the way they are, but He does not leave them that way.

1Co 6:9-10
(9) Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
(10) nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Heb 12:6-8
(6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
(7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
(8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye b*stards, and not sons.