If you didn't believe in God, would you still think homosexuality was wrong?

HaloHope

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We are in a war, that apparently you are oblivious to. It is a spiritual war against the enemy of the souls of man. His name is satan. He hates us ALL.


I realize this post was directed at unitedinchrist but I just thought I'd make a brief comment here too.

I'd never even heard of or encountered "deliverence ministry" till I saw you posting about it on this forum. No church I have been too even the conservative ones I frequented in my youth ever, ever phrased things the way you do.

I actually do geninally admire your fervor and devotion to your beliefs, even if I find the whole concept fanatical and quite scary.

I don't spend my time thinking about being at "war" with Satan and I never do. I like earth a lot, I love Godd, I love my family, I love my partner and I'm going to enjoy this wonderful life God has given me on earth as a primary concern. I do look forward to heaven but right now I believe I should focus on the life God has graced me with here, and around me I see a beautiful world full of Gods riches to enjoy. Not a place of satan.






 
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IamRedeemed

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You don't have to think about "making war with satan" you do not make war with satan (although some might who knows), but you do not wake up and start your day unprepared for him to make war with you, because the Word tells us we are in a war, whether we like it or not.

Yes, there are many dead churches unfortunately. Yes, there are many churches who are afraid the congregation will freak out if they start believing Jesus and start praying for sick people and they are healed, or praying for people who are bound in sin and they get set free. No, they like their little "have a nice day sermons" and then go to the potluck. Satan likes dead churches too.

This life is not about our immediate lives around us and making them as happy as can be. Don't get me wrong, the Lord does want us to be joyful and He provides, but it is about the cause of the Cross.
Our eternal life is the one we're after. This one is just a vapor and we need to use it for others.
People are perishing. Every second of every day someone enters into eternity. Today it could be someone I know, tomorrow someone you do...the question is, where will they spend eternity?
And if we don't know for sure, do we know that we did all we could to make sure it wasn't hell?


Thank you for your kinds words.

On the other....

The fanatical part doesn't bother me, it is like a gag-reflex. People usually do attach a negative connotation to things they don't know much about especially if they seem "radical" to them.
Jesus was called a radical and a fanatic amongst other things lol.
Most people are used to the "religious" they aren't used to people who actually believe.

I am curious though, what in particular do you find "scary" that I have said?


I realize this post was directed at unitedinchrist but I just thought I'd make a brief comment here too.

I'd never even heard of or encountered "deliverence ministry" till I saw you posting about it on this forum. No church I have been too even the conservative ones I frequented in my youth ever, ever phrased things the way you do.

I actually do geninally admire your fervor and devotion to your beliefs, even if I find the whole concept fanatical and quite scary.

I don't spend my time thinking about being at "war" with Satan and I never do. I like earth a lot, I love Godd, I love my family, I love my partner and I'm going to enjoy this wonderful life God has given me on earth as a primary concern. I do look forward to heaven but right now I believe I should focus on the life God has graced me with here, and around me I see a beautiful world full of Gods riches to enjoy. Not a place of satan.

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*Starlight*

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So, then basically you are saying that you have no moral compass. In other words, your mind is so muddied now and everything is so grey, that you cannot distinguish between right and wrong anymore.

No, I've never said anything like that. I have a moral compass. I only said that I don't want to say stuff about something I have no idea about.
 
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livingword26

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sorry...what does typing scripture have to do with anything? does it make you feel better? much evil has come out of the bible as well with people twisting scripture to suit their beliefs...i.e. slavery, segregation, racism, women's rights, etc... so I can sit and type back all sorts of scripture to you as well and what does that make me? a "real" Christian?

Actually it answered your statement quite well.

I never bought into the fundamentalist philosophy of "sins of the flesh" when they preach about how they are flooded in the holy spirit, and have god in their brain, heart, soul, yet it's all wrapped up in something evil and demonic called "the flesh".

Rom 7:21-25
(21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
(22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
(23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
(25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


Gal 5:17
(17) For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. And these are contrary to one another; lest whatever you may will, these things you do.
 
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livingword26

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sorry...what does typing scripture have to do with anything? does it make you feel better? much evil has come out of the bible as well with people twisting scripture to suit their beliefs...i.e. slavery, segregation, racism, women's rights, etc... so I can sit and type back all sorts of scripture to you as well and what does that make me? a "real" Christian?

Same with this one

He is accepts all just as they are, and all will ALWAYS be welcome to him. he simply asks that you believe in him, and the kingdom of God is yours.

I really hate being on this side of the debate. God is indeed a God of grace, and He wants all to be saved. But, there is a difference between a person struggling with sin, and a person who has decided that sin is not sin, and God wants them to stay that way. Indeed God accepts everyone the way they are, but He does not leave them that way.

1Co 6:9-10
(9) Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
(10) nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Heb 12:6-8
(6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
(7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
(8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye b*stards, and not sons.
 
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HaloHope

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Sorry for taking a while to reply to this had a busy day yesterday (its Sunday morning here now).

You don't have to think about "making war with satan" you do not make war with satan (although some might who knows), but you do not wake up and start your day unprepared for him to make war with you, because the Word tells us we are in a war, whether we like it or not.


It's not something I tend to stress over. I just worry about the world and people around me. I don't sit up in the morning and think "hmm Satan is going to be doing his best to tempt me today". If I did that I'd be a nervous wreck, I just trust in God that everything will be fine each and every day, and if it isn't I have my faith in him to get me through.

Yes, there are many dead churches unfortunately. Yes, there are many churches who are afraid the congregation will freak out if they start believing Jesus and start praying for sick people and they are healed, or praying for people who are bound in sin and they get set free. No, they like their little "have a nice day sermons" and then go to the potluck. Satan likes dead churches too.


"dead churches". I have to say that I don't think there is anything dead about churches that don't preach hellfire and brimstone, that don't call their congregation soldiers, and don't condemn anyone whatsoever. In fact churches where they do, do those things turn my stomach. When I read the Bible I do not see condemnation of people, I see Jesus reaching out lovingly to them. This is NOT the way the majority of Christians approach those they percieve as sinners, and certainly not what I see in the majority of your posts.


This life is not about our immediate lives around us and making them as happy as can be. Don't get me wrong, the Lord does want us to be joyful and He provides, but it is about the cause of the Cross.
Our eternal life is the one we're after. This one is just a vapor and we need to use it for others.
People are perishing. Every second of every day someone enters into eternity. Today it could be someone I know, tomorrow someone you do...the question is, where will they spend eternity?
And if we don't know for sure, do we know that we did all we could to make sure it wasn't hell?


You can think about heaven as the "main goal" of course. I like to enjoy this life I have been gifted with, and all the wonders the earth has to offer before I die. That said I do reach out to others, just in a loving way, I fear the methods I see demonstrated throughout this thread are simply going to cause people to run a mile from God. Of course that's ok to most fundys as "the gate is narrow" etc. It's only narrow because of the way non-Christians are treated. God is love and if more people can be directed to him looking for that love the better.


Thank you for your kinds words.

On the other....

The fanatical part doesn't bother me, it is like a gag-reflex. People usually do attach a negative connotation to things they don't know much about especially if they seem "radical" to them.
Jesus was called a radical and a fanatic amongst other things lol.
Most people are used to the "religious" they aren't used to people who actually believe.

I am curious though, what in particular do you find "scary" that I have said?


I see nothing radical and fanatical in what Jesus did. But then I don't see him doing what most fundys do. Jesus did say people had sinned, thats for sure. Things like "YOU ABOMINATION, YOUR GOING TO DIE ABOUT 20 YEARS BEFORE ANYONE ELSE BECAUSE YOUR GAY" aren't actually in the NT. Know why it isn't? Because Jesus didn't lie to people, or hurt people JESUS IS LOVE, pure love.

I find it scary as I'm not "Gods messenger on earth" I'm not a "soldier of the lord" I'm not out there fighting sinners. I'm just a person a average human being, who loves Jesus spreading kind words and helping other people in his name. Jesus helped people, screaming sin and campaigning against people does not help them, even if you believe that it does.
 
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ReformedChapin

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Sorry for taking a while to reply to this had a busy day yesterday (its Sunday morning here now).



It's not something I tend to stress over. I just worry about the world and people around me. I don't sit up in the morning and think "hmm Satan is going to be doing his best to tempt me today". If I did that I'd be a nervous wreck, I just trust in God that everything will be fine each and every day, and if it isn't I have my faith in him to get me through.


"dead churches". I have to say that I don't think there is anything dead about churches that don't preach hellfire and brimstone, that don't call their congregation soldiers, and don't condemn anyone whatsoever. In fact churches where they do, do those things turn my stomach. When I read the Bible I do not see condemnation of people, I see Jesus reaching out lovingly to them. This is NOT the way the majority of Christians approach those they percieve as sinners, and certainly not what I see in the majority of your posts.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
That's Good that you trust God, whoever you shouldn't trust yourself so much. You are a sinner and you showed be worried that any path can lead you astray. If you attitude is "eh, I don't feel like worry about it." Then that's fine, you will have to deal with the consequences.

You can think about heaven as the "main goal" of course. I like to enjoy this life I have been gifted with, and all the wonders the earth has to offer before I die. That said I do reach out to others, just in a loving way, I fear the methods I see demonstrated throughout this thread are simply going to cause people to run a mile from God. Of course that's ok to most fundys as "the gate is narrow" etc. It's only narrow because of the way non-Christians are treated. God is love and if more people can be directed to him looking for that love the better.

I see nothing radical and fanatical in what Jesus did. But then I don't see him doing what most fundys do. Jesus did say people had sinned, thats for sure. Things like "YOU ABOMINATION, YOUR GOING TO DIE ABOUT 20 YEARS BEFORE ANYONE ELSE BECAUSE YOUR GAY" aren't actually in the NT. Know why it isn't? Because Jesus didn't lie to people, or hurt people JESUS IS LOVE, pure love.

I find it scary as I'm not "Gods messenger on earth" I'm not a "soldier of the lord" I'm not out there fighting sinners. I'm just a person a average human being, who loves Jesus spreading kind words and helping other people in his name. Jesus helped people, screaming sin and campaigning against people does not help them, even if you believe that it does.
You like most "tolerance pushers" miss the most important part of the Gosple. Repenting of your sin, that's what the NT is all about. Yes, Jesus loved others...as a fundies we love all sinners especially gays. But we, will not allow you to turn God's house into a den of thieves like some of JEWS did. When you pervert God's word it's time to take the belt and learn some discipline. And Jesus did do something amazing, he atonned for our sins...no one else could do that.
 
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IamRedeemed

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Most of your reply was not based on my post but rather you used my post to get on a soapbox of your own to condemn your assumptions of what I believe or what my definition MIGHT be of a Church that is ALIVE as opposed to DEAD.

Your post also makes it evident that reading the Word is not a part of your walk with Christ. In fact this entire homosexual debate forum is filled to overflowing with that evidence.

Besides being unwilling to turn from your sin, being unteachable is probably the worst of your disadvantages, and an enemy of your soul in itself. Leaning on your own understanding rather than believing God and leaning on His Word is the other. The Word is Living and Powerful, it is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword. It discerns every thought and exposes every intention of our hearts.
(Hebrews 4:12)

I know you do not like my posts on these homosexual threads, and it makes sense that you wouldn't. My posts reveal that your hearts are not right before the Lord. You leave no room to talk to you about God's mercy or His love, His power to make you an overcomer and deliver you of an abominable lifestyle, so that you can position yourself to walk in blessing as you are in agreement with God, rather than at odds with or opposing Him, siding with his enemy because you profane His Word, ignore it, mutilate it, twist it and preach ANOTHER GOSPEL, and lead others astray. Therefore your posts can only solicit correction.

Ephesians 5:6-17
Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him. Don’t participate in the things these people do. For once you were full of darkness, but now you have light from the Lord. So live as people of light! For this light within you produces only what is good and right and true. Carefully determine what pleases the Lord. Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them. It is shameful even to talk about the things that ungodly people do in secret. But their evil intentions will be exposed when the light shines on them, for the light makes everything visible. This is why it is said,
“Awake, O sleeper,
rise up from the dead,
and Christ will give you light.”


So be careful how you live. Don’t live like fools, but like those who are wise. Make the most of every opportunity in these evil days. Don’t act thoughtlessly, but understand what the Lord wants you to do.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.




Sorry for taking a while to reply to this had a busy day yesterday (its Sunday morning here now).

It's not something I tend to stress over. I just worry about the world and people around me. I don't sit up in the morning and think "hmm Satan is going to be doing his best to tempt me today". If I did that I'd be a nervous wreck, I just trust in God that everything will be fine each and every day, and if it isn't I have my faith in him to get me through.

[/color][/size][/font]

"dead churches". I have to say that I don't think there is anything dead about churches that don't preach hellfire and brimstone, that don't call their congregation soldiers, and don't condemn anyone whatsoever. In fact churches where they do, do those things turn my stomach. When I read the Bible I do not see condemnation of people, I see Jesus reaching out lovingly to them. This is NOT the way the majority of Christians approach those they percieve as sinners, and certainly not what I see in the majority of your posts.

[/color][/size][/font]


You can think about heaven as the "main goal" of course. I like to enjoy this life I have been gifted with, and all the wonders the earth has to offer before I die. That said I do reach out to others, just in a loving way, I fear the methods I see demonstrated throughout this thread are simply going to cause people to run a mile from God. Of course that's ok to most fundys as "the gate is narrow" etc. It's only narrow because of the way non-Christians are treated. God is love and if more people can be directed to him looking for that love the better.

[/color][/size][/font]



I see nothing radical and fanatical in what Jesus did. But then I don't see him doing what most fundys do. Jesus did say people had sinned, thats for sure. Things like "YOU ABOMINATION, YOUR GOING TO DIE ABOUT 20 YEARS BEFORE ANYONE ELSE BECAUSE YOUR GAY" aren't actually in the NT. Know why it isn't? Because Jesus didn't lie to people, or hurt people JESUS IS LOVE, pure love.

I find it scary as I'm not "Gods messenger on earth" I'm not a "soldier of the lord" I'm not out there fighting sinners. I'm just a person a average human being, who loves Jesus spreading kind words and helping other people in his name. Jesus helped people, screaming sin and campaigning against people does not help them, even if you believe that it does.
 
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savedandhappy1

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HaloHope said:
I find it scary as I'm not "Gods messenger on earth" I'm not a "soldier of the lord" I'm not out there fighting sinners. I'm just a person a average human being, who loves Jesus spreading kind words and helping other people in his name. Jesus helped people, screaming sin and campaigning against people does not help them, even if you believe that it does.


There is a slow apostasy that is creeping in to many Christian denominations. Many groups that claim the name of Christ are advocating anti-Christian principles. It seems that the majority of Christians are not adequately trained nor sufficiently motivated to carry out the Great Commission: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you..." (Matt. 28:19-20). To carry out the Great Commission, Christians need to be disciples and disciple-makers. It means knowing basic Christian doctrine, knowing the Bible, and being able to defend the Christian faith.

You don't have to go to seminary training, memorize the New Testament, and/or stand on street corners shouting about Jesus. I'm talking about the basic knowledge of God's word as well as the basics of evangelism and doctrine that helps to lead us to do what Jesus charged us to do: make disciples.

2 Tim. 4:2-5
2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Apostasy means to fall away from the truth. When Christians adopt the ideas of the world above scripture they are committing apostasy. The world wants us to let things be, to adopt a policy of tolerance about other religions and ideas in contradiction to Scripture, and let the culture simply continue on its way towards increasing immorality and and irreverence.

The Great Commission (Matt. 28:19-20) is the charge of Jesus to believers, to every believer, to be disciple makers. It is not aimed at just the pastor and the missionary. It is aimed at everyone in the church.

The Great Commission is a commission of love given to us by the God of love. It is what Jesus asked us to do. People are going to hell. Jesus wants us to help as many as possible find salvation in Him. He wants us to be His disciples and then make others into disciples as well. This is what He wants. Is this happening in your life?

With all the things we have to make us comfortable, VCR's, remote control's, AC, etc., I wonder if we haven't became to comfortable. Have we let this stuff lure us into a casual relationship with God because all our earthly needs are met. Such casualness destroys the urgency, the intimacy of dependence upon God that excites and motivates the believe into action when God miraculously and continuously provides our needs. I also believe that many pastors are failing to do what the Bible says to do: equip the saints (Eph. 4:12). I suspect far too many pastors are more concerned about not offending their own congregations with the whole gospel than spreading its truth, lest people go find another church to be comfortable in. Growing in Christ means to become mature and daily pick up your cross to follow Jesus. The pastor is not there to simply comfort them and to make them feel warm and cozy, nor is he there to reflect the current social trends and morays of the secular environment. He is there to equip the saints, to call them to repentance and holiness, to present God's word, to train them up to be more like Jesus (Eph. 4:12), and to help them mature in Christ so that they can become a people of action, as well as a people of love.

The gospel is not only about being born again, but is also about picking up your cross and following Jesus (Luke 9:23), about prayer, about supporting Christians who teach, about bearing one another's burdens, about defending the faith, about standing up for righteousness, and much more.

People are going to hell. The enemy is making coverts to false gospels in the cults, false world religions, humanistic principles in schools, and moral relativism in society. Christians are not supposed to be keepers of the aquarium. We are supposed to be fishers of men. Christians are supposed to confront the world in a wise and loving fashion. This is what the Bible says to do and to accomplish this, the Christians need to have a desire to spread the gospel everywhere.

I want to be able to say "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith." (2 Tim. 4:7)
 
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One of the reasons the Anglican Communion is at a crisis of schism is of course some say such views that support homosexual practice represent too significant a departure from the Christian faith.
So the thread title which means if one didnt believe in God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, as a Christian, would one still think homosexuality was wrong, is ok as long as Christians are answering. If we had someone here who believed in a god which countenaced same-sex sex they could not anwser as they could not still believe it was wrong as their god doesnt believe its wrong in the first place
 
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