"Embedded Age" Requires Fake Fossils

[Split Rock]

My argument? Let me review: I was not the one who asked God for a miracle. It was my wife, and she was ill and was desperate to get home. And you and others concluded that it would have been wrong for God to help me and my wife to get home because there are thousands of children who are dying in Africa.

I had been doing the Lord’s work on behalf of the unborn children for two decades without any compensation and loosing thousands of dollars for giving priority to pro-life activities instead of my real estate business, and you people decided to criticize me for giving credit to God for a token favor in light of our sacrifice for the sake of the unborn.

You erroneously concluded that God was giving preference to my car over the life of African children. This is an example of how a wrong ideology can lead people to be unfair to innocent individuals.

Wow. You are really going overboard, aren't you?

Here is your argument in a nut-shell:
1. Your car wouldn't start.
2. Your wife prayed to God for it to start
3. The car then started.
4. A car mechanic told you it can't start in its condition.
5. Conclusion: The car started do to divine intervention from God.

My counter argument is the following:
1. It is more likely that the car started because the problem it had rendered it unlikely to start, rather than impossible.
2. It is unlikely the car started due to divine intervention.
3. It makes little sense (in my opinion) that God put such specific effort into starting your car, when he puts so little effort into other endeavors which would be more fruitful, like starving children, or Christians being oppressed or killed in the Middle East.

I never said it would be wrong for God to help you, just that it would make no sense, considering the thousands of more important prayers he apparently ignores.

It is very nice all the work you have been doing against abortion, while not doing more to make money for yourself. However, I find it interesting that you seem to think it prioritizes you and your wife in the mind of God. I remain skeptical.

 

[Loudmouth]

Wow. You are really going overboard, aren't you?

Here is your argument in a nut-shell:
1. Your car wouldn't start.
2. Your wife prayed to God for it to start
3. The car then started.
4. A car mechanic told you it can't start in its condition.
5. Conclusion: The car started do to divine intervention from God.

My counter argument is the following:
1. It is more likely that the car started because the problem it had rendered it unlikely to start, rather than impossible.
2. It is unlikely the car started due to divine intervention.
3. It makes little sense (in my opinion) that God put such specific effort into starting your car, when it puts so little effort into other endeavors which would be more fruitful, like starving children, or Christians being oppressed or killed in the Middle East.

I never said it would be wrong for God to help you, just that it would make no sense, considering the thousands of more important prayers he apparently ignores.

It is very nice all the work you have been doing against abortion, while not doing more to make money for yourself. However, I find it interesting that you seem to think it prioritizes you and your wife in the mind of God. I remain skeptical.

Joe Blow asks for his daughter not to die from a painful bout with cancer, and his daughter dies anyway after 2 years of pain and suffering.

John Smith down the block asks God to start his car so he won't be late, and God parts the heavens and performs a miracle.

Seems like a rather capricious deity to me.

 

[AV1611VET]

Joe Blow asks for his daughter not to die from a painful bout with cancer, and his daughter dies anyway after 2 years of pain and suffering.

John Smith down the block asks God to start his car so he won't be late, and God parts the heavens and performs a miracle.

Seems like a rather capricious deity to me.

1. Joe Blow asks for his daughter not to die from a painful bout with cancer, and his daughter lives.

2. John Smith down the block asks God to start his car so he won't be late, and his car doesn't start, and he's late.

3. Joe Blow's daughter ends up giving away military secrets to the enemy, causing the deaths of many servicemen.

4. John Smith gets to work late, only to find out someone went postal on his department.

Study the life of King Hezekiah.

He was "sick unto death," and he prayed for God to spare his life and God gave him 15 more years.

Twelve years later, he sired one of Juda's most evil kings (Manasseh), known as the "Nero of Palestine," with whom tradition has it that he had Isaiah sawn in half on the trunk of a tree.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

However, I find it interesting that you seem to think it prioritizes you and your wife in the mind of God.

You tried to read my mind and got it wrong. I could cite numerous incidents where my prayers got a “NO” answer from above.

Why do you think that it would be wrong for God to do something special for us occasionally given the fact that we have been providing pro-life services without pay for decades?

What kind of evidence would entice you to accept the notion that there is someone in charge of the universe?

 

[bhsmte]

You tried to read my mind and got it wrong. I could cite numerous incidents where my prayers got a “NO” answer from above.

Why do you think that it would be wrong for God to do something special for us occasionally given the fact that we have been providing pro-life services without pay for decades?

What kind of evidence would entice you to accept the notion that there is someone in charge of the universe?

Lets make this simple. Did you assign divine intervention to your car starting? Yes, or no?

 

[Nic Samojluk]

5. Conclusion: The car started do to divine intervention from God.

The car might have started due to some other mysterious reasons. Nevertheless, given my previous religious experience the most logical explanation is that it was due to an providential action.

This goes back a long way to the time when I was a little boy. Should I give you some details? Besides, I provided additional incidents where my life was spared by the timely action of those near me. You could argue that those were due to chance, but when you win the lottery so many times, you begin to wonder.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

It makes little sense (in my opinion) that God put such specific effort into starting your car, when he puts so little effort into other endeavors which would be more fruitful, like starving children, or Christians being oppressed or killed in the Middle East.

Would you change your mind if I could provide evidence that God used my pro-life efforts to save the life of a thousand unborn babies—how about ten thousand, or 100,000? Of course this is hypothetical, but would you respond to this scenario? Would you still consider unlikely for God to do a little service like helping get a car started?

 

[Nic Samojluk]

I never said it would be wrong for God to help you, just that it would make no sense, considering the thousands of more important prayers he apparently ignores.

Jesus told his followers that they would be persecuted and killed for his name’s sake. History records that this prediction was literally fulfilled when millions of his followers were martyred following Jesus ascension to heaven.

All of Jesus’ disciples chose to die rather than deny his resurrection, and the same is true about millions of Christians. Why would these Christians forfeit their chance to life if denying Jesus was so easy? Do you blame God for choosing to not protect them?

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Joe Blow asks for his daughter not to die from a painful bout with cancer, and his daughter dies anyway after 2 years of pain and suffering.

John Smith down the block asks God to start his car so he won't be late, and God parts the heavens and performs a miracle. Seems like a rather capricious deity to me

Your human reasoning seems impregnable at first sight. Nevertheless, you are not in charge of the universe. God is, and he makes his decision in light of eternal consequences. He is building his case against his enemy—the Devil. When the great controversy between good and evil is over, his deeds will make sense to you and to the entire universe.

 

[bhsmte]

The rationalizing going on here is amazing.

 

[Doveaman]

99.999% of physicists who work with plasma agree that inelastic scattering is a wavelength dependent mechanism unlike cosmological redshift which is wavelength independent.

I recall Michael requesting that you demonstrate your wavelength independent claim, but you ran away. So I have no reason to believe you.

You however are *irrationally* fixated on *averaged* data over a *tiny* portion of the EM spectrum, and making *outrageously* unsupported claims about *every other wavelength in the universe*!

Anytime you're willing to put up a side by side comparison of the visible spectrum with a high energy gamma ray spectrum and actually *demonstrate* that claim, let me know. Until then, your personal *acts of pure faith* aren't all that convincing IMO.

What he said.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Lets make this simple. Did you assign divine intervention to your car starting? Yes, or no?

I cannot prove that God started a car with a broken timing chain. Nevertheless, given my prior experiences with God’s intervention in my life and that of my parents, that was the most reasonable guess for me. Others may reach other alternative conclusions.

 

[crjmurray]

Your human reasoning seems impregnable at first sight. Nevertheless, you are not in charge of the universe. God is, and he makes his decision in light of eternal consequences. He is building his case against his enemy—the Devil. When the great controversy between good and evil is over, his deeds will make sense to you and to the entire universe.

Why would an omnipotent being need to build a case like some sort of celestial district attorney?

 

[Nic Samojluk]

God's free to help whomever he chooses. I just question what his priorities are.

A False Premise Regarding the God we Worship

Our problem is that we have a totally inadequate conception of God. We feel that he is limited by priorities. Humans are limited by priorities, but Almighty God is not. A car mechanic cannot we working on two or a dozen cars at the same time, but God can. He can help a stranded motorist in California and be busy protecting children in Africa who are dying at the same time. He is omnipresent and he can rely on the assistance of trillions of angels.

This means that the argument of my critics is based on a false premise: the false notion that if God decided to help us when our car broke down on our return trip from Mexico, that his action deprived him of the ability to protect African children from disease and death.

God is not limited by time and space. He is omnipotent and he can take care of the entire universe at the same time. He can take care of humans and of animals all at once. If he can’t do this, then we are in real trouble. This is why we are encouraged to pray, because God can take care of Peter, John, Mary, Tom, and millions of other human beings without missing a single beat.

We need to start worshipping a God who is not limited by time and space like we humans are. For him priorities are not a concern. He can do all things at the same time.

New International Version
The eyes of the LORD are everywhere, keeping watch on the wicked and the good. [Proverbs 15:3]

 

[bhsmte]

A False Premise Regarding the God we Worship

Our problem is that we have a totally inadequate conception of God. We feel that he is limited by priorities. Humans are limited by priorities, but Almighty God is not. A car mechanic cannot we working on two or a dozen cars at the same time, but God can. He can help a stranded motorist in California and be busy protecting children in Africa who are dying at the same time. He is omnipresent and he can rely on the assistance of trillions of angels.

This means that the argument of my critics is based on a false premise: the false notion that if God decided to help us when our car broke down on our return trip from Mexico, that his action deprived him of the ability to protect African children from disease and death.

God is not limited by time and space. He is omnipotent and he can take care of the entire universe at the same time. He can take care of humans and of animals all at once. If he can’t do this, then we are in real trouble. This is why we are encouraged to pray, because God can take care of Peter, John, Mary, Tom, and millions of other human beings without missing a single beat.

We need to start worshipping a God who is not limited by time and space like we humans are. For him priorities are not a concern. He can do all things at the same time.

It would appear you agree then, that this God you describe is fully capable of helping the 9 million children who die each year before the age of five, if he desires to?

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Why would an omnipotent being need to build a case like some sort of celestial district attorney?

Because the Devil is very clever and experienced in deception. Before his rebellion, he was the smartest angelic being in heaven—so smart that one third of the angelic host sided with him against God.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

It would appear you agree then, that this God you describe is fully capable of helping the 9 million children who die each year before the age of five, if he desires to?

Yes! So why is it he doesn’t do this? He restrains his almighty power for many reasons. One of them is that he wants human to participate in the healing of people; another is that the evil nature of rebellion must be revealed to humans and to the rest of the universe.

When Lucifer rebelled against God in heaven, he suggested that if he were in charge of the universe, things would run smoother and everybody would be happier.

God could not risk letting him demonstrate his error by allowing him to take control of the entire universe. This would have been too risky. Nevertheless, when Adam joined Satan in his rebellion, God did allow him to demonstrate his the true nature of his devilish deception on our planet.

Remember what Jesus said when the soldiers came to apprehend him in the Garden of Gethsemane:

New International Version
Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? [Matthew 26:53]

Jesus was not overpowered by those soldiers; he could have overpowered all of them. He did not suddenly become weak and helpless. Why did he submit to torture, abuse, shame, and a cruel death?

God needed to give Satan a chance to reveal his true character. Humans and angels needed to understand the nature of the cosmic conflict between good and evil in order that when the time came to destroy the Devil and his fiendish host, no one would question the justice of God’s judgment against him.

 

[crjmurray]

Because the Devil is very clever and experienced in deception. Before his rebellion, he was the smartest angelic being in heaven—so smart that one third of the angelic host sided with him against God.

You don't know what omnipotent means do you?

 

[Doveaman]

Some creationists make the claim that God created the Earth with maturity or embedded age during the initial creation of the Earth which is why rocks appear to be millions to billions of years old when measured with radiometric dating. The problem is that this requires God to put fake fossils in the ground.

1. When a T. rex or other large animal dies, it doesn't dig through hundreds of feet of solid basalt rock and make a fossil.

2. Therefore, any lava flows found above a fossil had to occur AFTER the organism died.

3. Lava flows found above fossils date to millions of years old which creationists claim were created during the initial creation of the Earth.

4. Therefore, if embedded age or mature Earth is correct, God had to plant fake fossils under those rocks during the initial creation of the Earth.

No lava flow was needed, only water flow.

Genesis 7 tells us that during the flood the fountains of the deep were broken up -- the earth’s rocks broke open, or cracked open, from the water pressure underneath. These events threw many pieces of rocks across the earth's surface.

After the flood, as the water receded back into the cracks in the ground, the dead animals and the broken pieces of rocks were also sucked into the ground to fill the cracks. This is why we now find fossils in the rocks of the ground.

 

[Loudmouth]

No lava flow was needed, only water flow.

Genesis 7 tells us that during the flood the fountains of the deep were broken up -- the earth’s rocks broke open, or cracked open, from the water pressure underneath. These events threw many pieces of rocks across the earth's surface.

Any lava produced by these events would date to 4,000 years old, or the lower limit of detection for these methods. They would not date to tens or hundreds of millions of years old.

These are lava flows, not just broken pieces of rock stacked onto one another.