Dating after widowhood

[gavinleesherborne]

wow. thanks a lot, that has cleared up everything in one post. Im impressed.

I used to plan a lot of things out, just to give me peace of mind. I was always aware that truely i should just relie completely on God, and stop writing notes and plans that always change.

I know that surrendering everything to Jesus, will bring no worry, esp on matters such as this one.

I think not planning,will give me more peace ironically, a lot more excitement as the future is unknown and will make life spontaneous, instead of planned daily routines.

I know I have changed a lot since my fiance has gone. I miss her terribly. I know it is God's plan, and I can actually make sence of her passing, in a way given her sufferings and how her quality of life would be, and her unhappyness of her nans passing away 4 years ago.

her nan said through the holy spirit to emma she would meet someone called Gavin. So I know this relationship was inspired by god. However what is to come now is a complete unknown, but i think i will imbrace it.

how did you rationalise your husbands passing at the beginning if you dont mind me asking?

 

[Catherineanne]

i dont think i would consider marrying. however another question, since we didnt marry, does that make me a widow?

Gavin

If you had married you would be a widower. There is a very useful word, which is not much used these days, but perhaps could be useful to you.

I divorced my husband some years ago but neither of us dated or remarried. When he died I considered myself the same as a widow, from God's point of view, but to call myself a widow might be misleading to some people. So I use the term 'relict', which can be used of a man or a woman; it means the surviving partner of a relationship.

I am David's relict, and to the church at least, although not in law, his widow.

 

[Catherineanne]

Legally and Biblically, no you are not a widow. And even if you were, Christian widows (and widowers) are allowed to remarry and even encouraged to.

Paul distinguishes two different kinds of widows. There are the young widows, perhaps with children, who are right to look for a new husband to look after them and help them to provide for their family. There is nothing to prevent them from marrying, and they are right to do so, if their circumstances permit.

The second group are older, and he calls them 'true widows'. They are to be supported by the church, and not pressured to remarry. Their calling is to remain chaste.

I am one of the second group.

 

[blackribbon]

"True widows" were of an age that they no longer could be expected to financial care for themselves and they were to dedicate themselves to the Lord and the church. I know in my 40's I didn't qualify...even at the time that I wished I could just "quit life".

As for how do I reconcile my husband's death...I believe that our death date is known to God even as we are born...not so much that it is "pre-determined" but rather that an All-Knowing God knows how the story will play out even before it begins. Our freedom of choice is what exists between those two dates. So if I believe that, then he would have died with me in his life and completely loved OR potential alone or with someone who didn't/couldn't handle helping him through his illness. As much as he was a gift to my life, I was a gift to him...to help him walk through those last days and leave him feeling loved unconditionally.

I also cling to the fact that our separation is only temporary...life on earth, as long as it feels some days...is not really forever or even that long. Eternity will be forever...and I have no doubt in my mind that I will see him again. However, I am stuck living in this world and I have committed to make sure my children's life is not completely shaped by the sadness that came with their dads death. It is my job to teach them that God is good & can be trusted to take care of us even in the bad times, that happiness exists, and that their is plenty of life still out there to live. The only way to do this is to model it...so I HAVE to get out of bed each morning.

My husband's death has changed me forever...but in many ways, for the better. I see "pain" in people now....I can see past the "I'm okay" masks of people around me and actually take the time to reach out now...(no husband to rush home to).

I am not mad at God for "letting him die". I actually think he got the better end of the deal. He is in Heaven now living his eternity while I am still fumbling along here. For whatever reason I got left behind, I am committed to find it.

 

[Catherineanne]

"True widows" were of an age that they no longer could be expected to financial care for themselves and they were to dedicate themselves to the Lord and the church. I know in my 40's I didn't qualify...even at the time that I wished I could just "quit life".

No woman in Biblical times could take financial care of herself, unless she happened to be very rich. Women were supported either by their husband, their father or their brothers. There were no careers apart from prostitition open to an unprovided woman.

Elderly widows would starve unless they had sons or brothers to provide for them; in effect Paul is saying, the elderly widows must be provided for by their brothers in Christ.

Needless to say, this has changed somewhat.

As for how do I reconcile my husband's death...I believe that our death date is known to God even as we are born...not so much that it is "pre-determined" but rather that an All-Knowing God knows how the story will play out even before it begins. Our freedom of choice is what exists between those two dates. So if I believe that, then he would have died with me in his life and completely loved OR potential alone or with someone who didn't/couldn't handle helping him through his illness. As much as he was a gift to my life, I was a gift to him...to help him walk through those last days and leave him feeling loved unconditionally.

I also cling to the fact that our separation is only temporary...life on earth, as long as it feels some days...is not really forever or even that long. Eternity will be forever...and I have no doubt in my mind that I will see him again. However, I am stuck living in this world and I have committed to make sure my children's life is not completely shaped by the sadness that came with their dads death. It is my job to teach them that God is good & can be trusted to take care of us even in the bad times, that happiness exists, and that their is plenty of life still out there to live. The only way to do this is to model it...so I HAVE to get out of bed each morning.

My husband's death has changed me forever...but in many ways, for the better. I see "pain" in people now....I can see past the "I'm okay" masks of people around me and actually take the time to reach out now...(no husband to rush home to).

I am not mad at God for "letting him die". I actually think he got the better end of the deal. He is in Heaven now living his eternity while I am still fumbling along here. For whatever reason I got left behind, I am committed to find it.

That all sounds very sensible. And I know what you mean about having more empathy for other people; I think that can be one of the products of grief.

 

[blackribbon]

No woman in Biblical times could take financial care of herself, unless she happened to be very rich. Women were supported either by their husband, their father or their brothers. There were no careers apart from prostitition open to an unprovided woman.

Elderly widows would starve unless they had sons or brothers to provide for them; in effect Paul is saying, the elderly widows must be provided for by their brothers in Christ.

The Proverbs 31 woman had her own business that she ran separately from her husband.

Ruth and Naomi may have lived somewhat on the compassion of family but Ruth worked every day gathering wheat...both to eat and to sell.

I would guess that midwives were women and they got paid for their services.

Act 16: 14-15 describes Lydia who sold purple cloth...

Acts 18: 2-3 describes Priscilla, the wife of Aquilla...and "they" were tentmakers....

I can not even begin to imagine a society where women did not work outside of the home...it just has not ever existed in recorded history.

I suspect that it was hard for widows especially if they did not already have a way to make a living...but that does not mean that they were totally without a way to care for themselves. Otherwise whole societies would have fallen apart after the wars and so many men were killed in major battles (no male relatives left to support all the women and children).

1 Tim 5 requires a widow to be over the age of 60 and have NO family to support her ... along with having been faithful to her husband and known for her good works ... to be qualifications to be put on the Church's list of widows. It also tells young women to remarry...not specifically to support themselves but rather to avoid the sins that come with having too much idle time.

 

[Catherineanne]

The Proverbs 31 woman had her own business that she ran separately from her husband.

Ruth and Naomi may have lived somewhat on the compassion of family but Ruth worked every day gathering wheat...both to eat and to sell.

I would guess that midwives were women and they got paid for their services.

Act 16: 14-15 describes Lydia who sold purple cloth...

Acts 18: 2-3 describes Priscilla, the wife of Aquilla...and "they" were tentmakers....

I can not even begin to imagine a society where women did not work outside of the home...it just has not ever existed in recorded history.

I suspect that it was hard for widows especially if they did not already have a way to make a living...but that does not mean that they were totally without a way to care for themselves. Otherwise whole societies would have fallen apart after the wars and so many men were killed in major battles (no male relatives left to support all the women and children).

1 Tim 5 requires a widow to be over the age of 60 and have NO family to support her ... along with having been faithful to her husband and known for her good works ... to be qualifications to be put on the Church's list of widows. It also tells young women to remarry...not specifically to support themselves but rather to avoid the sins that come with having too much idle time.

The examples you quote do not change what I have said; for the majority of women in Biblical times, loss of male protection would result in loss of financial stability and very often complete destitution. Certainly women have always worked, but that does not mean they were paid for what they did.

Guessing and assuming is not sufficient. After a major battle in which the men were killed, the working age women and children would usually be sold into slavery by the victors. Elderly women (and indeed men) would simply be left to die.

 

[blackribbon]

Many battles were NOT on home territory, they were the result of aggressive behavior and not defensive behavior...and then the survivors were not "conquered" but rather left to survive without the men that died in battle.

What basis are you using to make the assumptions that you make? Yes, finding a way to survive for a widow...in ANY time period including today...is difficult. I was a stay-at-home mom of 12 years when my husband died...and was left with two pre-adolescent children to raise. Today's life isn't any easier...but I don't necessarily believe it is more difficult. The true hardship is not finding something to eat...but rather finding the desire to eat after being left alone.

In the Jewish society, women always have had the status of "people" and had some rights even if they were different than the men. Which of the occupations that I listed would you believe were not paid employment? Yes, Priscilla's money...like anyone in a family business...may have gone into a general fund...but if her husband died, I suspect that she would still have been able to make tents and hire employees to do what her husband had done. Her livelihood wouldn't have been gone because the business' reputation and her skills would have remained. Now a days, we are less likely to have an occupation where we can step into our husband's shoes and continue.

Can you give any Biblical references to what a wife is supposed to look like ... or actually did look like ... daily activity-wise ? I honestly can't think of any.

Paul actually wishes that all widows would remain alone and celibate like him...so how did he expect these women to survive if there were not ways for women to earn a living? (1 Cor 7:8-9)

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Well I just don't agree that older widows "calling" is to be chaste. The bible does not teach that anywhere.

And blackribbon I agree with you on not being mad at God and my husband getting the better end of the deal, being with Jesus right now while I am here for whatever reason.

 

[gavinleesherborne]

well thankyou all for your imput. I now understand 2 points of view on this matter. and perhaps it doesnt specify that clearly in the bible whether to remarry or to be chaste.

In my case, Im 27, the younger widower and having idle time on my hands is not good.
However I do keep myself very busy, and I intend to as much of Gods work as I can.

as far as being with another women, I dont think I will be able to, and that is clearly just my choice. If god has others plans I will consider them, and more than likely be odiedient, but for now I just want to heal and meet new friends, and spread the gospel as much as possible.

Our love ones would not be in heaven if it wasnt for jesus, and whenever i think of emma, my last thoughts are of this, and that just makes me want to tell people about the love of christ.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

How long has it been since your fiance went to be with the Lord?

 

[gavinleesherborne]

only about a month ago. I believe I have traded my sorrow already for the lords joy.
I'll try and paint a picture as to why I'm happy and not grieving.

My fiance had ibs, SHE HAD SERVER NERVE DAMAGE, we thought the pain in her feet the last 3 months were a vit deficiency, it was later discovered it was the nerve damage.

This pain was causing her sleepless nights, and it was 24/7

she was still depressed, she had lost her nan, and longer so deeply to be with her, her nan was her life, and she was a remarkable women, she served the church her whole life, and it was such a devasting blow when she passed away, I tryed my best to keep her happy, but even i realised i was 2nd best to her nan.

she is now in heaven with a new body, no 24/7 pain, no ibs, and is reunited with elise - her nan.

had she have lived from the age of 22 with all those health problems, and unhappyness due to her nans death. - dont get me wrong she was getting happier, however like everyone here can understand, it is difficult to be THAT happy again as it was with your loved partner. this is the pain she was going through.

Just looking at those facts, it was so simple for god to justify taking her away, and i am completely 100 percent okay with it.

My common sense - says almost it would cruel to keep her on earth for 7 decades or more with that quality of life and pain and suffering and unhappyness.

the nerve damage was serve and would have meant she would have had muscle detoriation, and ended up in a wheel chair as well, she was close to needing a wheel chair during her last month with me.

I did her proud, and she was soo happy with me, I was her boyfriend not to vheat on her out of say 7 in arow, I gave her everything, all my time, my money, her whole life changed around when she met me, she was in a abusive relationship, and her past before meeting me was unbelievable full of pain and suffering: sexual abuse, bullying from relatives, school, almost suicide.

Her life was her nan, then she died, and then her life was me, then she died.

Im happy God used me to inject some much overdue LOVE into Emma's life.

Im now just excited as to what happens next

 

[blackribbon]

You were a gift to her. Now understand that the grief journey might take you on a roller coaster ride for little while. One day you are okay with it ... and the next you are extremely angry with God .... and the next you don't know how you will even find the energy to get out of bed. I am not saying you will feel any of these emotions definitely but expect to jump from extreme to extreme while have periods of peace in there too. This is normal grief. It does not mean that you don't trust God, it just means you lost something that you loved very much.

That also goes for her grief concerning her nan...it wasn't that you were 2nd, it was just sometimes the sadness makes it hard to focus on the other things we value. I don't think I'd ever want to compare the love for a parent/grandparent to the love for a fiance/spouse. They are both separately significant.

Take some time to grief and then take some time for self-care and getting close to God ... after that open your life to maybe loving again if the right person came along. Maybe God will allow you to be a gift for some other lucky woman...or maybe he will put you in a place to love many other hurting people. Your life isn't over...but take time to properly travel through this grief journey...which means allowing yourself to cry or not cry or whatever as you feel the need to feel.

((hugs))...

 

[gavinleesherborne]

I understand. Thanks for the message. I only know how people without faith expeirence grief. So its very insightful to know this.

I guess i dont feel second best, its just how the family sees it relating to themselves. I was truely there for Emma, while perhaps they werent.

This is why they feel 2nd best, I never truely beleived that was how it was in my case, perhaps in there case, but not mine.

I know Im now going to socialise more, to mainly spread the gospel but also to meet new friends.

But I will rest and heal, and try and remember all the happy memories.