Dates and who is buying...

Rhye

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And thank you ladies for suggestions on how to keep it even when the guy insists on paying.

It's so intimidating when a guy just jumps straight to "dinner and a movie" dates.
Maybe that just shows a lack of creativity. Makes me wonder how many girls he has taken on dinner and a movie dates before and if I'm just a space filler.

Dinner I get, but movies doesn't let you enjoy the person or get to know them really. I'm going to be learning about the characters on the screen and not the actually person I want to spend time with. But, I think guys are more creative then that these days.
 
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Tink

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Semi-blind post:

I prefer if the first date doesn't cost money, however it's very rare to find a man that wants to just hang out and not go to dinner or something else that costs money. Anyhow, I always offer to pay (I don't specify half or all; we'll talk about that if they accept the offer) and it doesn't offend me either way that it's answered. If he wants to pay half, all, or none...I don't mind. A man is more than the money he pays on a date.

:shrug:

How he treats the waiter/waitress/service person is of way more importance to me.
 
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Mrs.Slocombe

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It's so intimidating when a guy just jumps straight to "dinner and a movie" dates.
Maybe that just shows a lack of creativity. Makes me wonder how many girls he has taken on dinner and a movie dates before and if I'm just a space filler.

If you're going out on a date with someone you don't know uber-well, it's a little difficult to suss out their hobbies and set up a creative date. Cut the men some slack.
 
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Starnchrist

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124466d1308163209-pay-date.jpg
. ^_^
 
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Mrs.Slocombe

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So it's your personal hobby, but when you're dating it's his responsibility to pay for your personal hobby?

That's not what I said. But certainly, I'm breaking out the big guns a lot more often when I'm in the early stages of a relationship than when I'm not.

Most hair salons are more than willing to throw in an eyebrow wax with a normal hair cut.

Actually, they don't. I don't have a single girlfriend who doesn't have a seperate brow girl, and a seperate coiffeur guy. Would you trust your dentist to handle your rosacea, just because they're both in the medical field? No. So why is a guy who handles cut & colour, any more equipped to deal with estecthics? Hair and eyebrows are two very different things.

I will agree that some barbers throw in free brow trimming (admittedly, my father's) but the amount of these men (unfortunately, also including my dad) who actually have good brows is a small, microscopic minority. You get what you pay for.

If you choose to use extensive body waxing that's your issue, and no one else's. Shaving isn't going to break the bank, and even with body waxing it certainly wouldn't come close to the cost of a steak dinner.

It can be up to $60 for a wax including brows and an area of body hair, depending on the salon. Even at a restaurant, that's 2 salmon filet dinners. We've both invested $60 into the relationship if I've spent the money on waxing, and you covered my dinner that night.

I suppose if he's going to be seeing your bikini line on a first date at least he's getting his money's worth.



So when you're not dating someone you cease shaving your legs and pits? You know he has to buy shaving cream and razor blades for his face. Blades for men's razors are anything but cheap. It's called basic personal grooming, you can pay for it, you're a big girl.

My legs get way more attention when I'm dating someone than when I'm not. I can really, go 2 weeks between doing my legs really before the hair is visible enough that I shouldn't be wearing skirts or shorts, but there's been times I've shaved every 2-3 days when casually dating someone. I'm not complaining about the cost, but the suggestion that men are so hard done by because they cover the cost of dinner during the courting stages, while I spend as much on my physical image to make the man happy, seems like a sour grapes argument to make.

If you don't want to spend the extra money, don't expect us to put any extra effort.

Okay, and I spend $50 a month on a health club membership. Add into that at least 2 hours a day of my time. Then there's all the work out supplements you need: a good $100 a month on whey protein, $110 on Cassein protein $80 a month on pre work out nutrition, $120 a month on recovery supplements, $70 a month on a good men's multi-vitamin. For some guys a personal trainer in the mix, that's going to be 90 dollars (or more) for an hour session. Not to mention all the money that goes into eating properly.

Do you really think if a woman is vain enough to spend her disposable income on extra waxing, hair care beyond shampoo, & conditioner, clothing and snazzy undies, she wouldn't also be vain enough to go to the gym or exercise?

Weaksauce.

Anywho, I can see this is just turning into one-man-upship, so I'll be moving on. I just felt several of your arguments (especially the suggestion I should just get the guy who does my hair to wax my brows) to be out of touch with modern times.

So where's my credit for all the money that goes into maintaining my appearance? I'm wagering you don't go out with a lot of fat boys.

I've never had a fat guy come on to me. And I'm certainly not the type to come on strong to a guy, so I've never actually gone on a date with someone fat where the question of who was to pay came up.
 
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Stravinsk

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Semi blind post:

Does it seem at all inconsistant that the male, by virtue of having more testosterone and a penis - is expected to pay for dates? Numerous women have said it shows "financial stability" and "maturity".

So how does a woman show "financial stability" and "maturity"? Or are these qualities not valued or needed in a woman? Oh wait - the man is the PROVIDER - thus implying the woman is the DEPENDANT. Whatever one says about the "gold digger" label - this is what is implied. Man provides. Woman is provided for. Not the other way around, and not on an equitable basis.

Cool. So - simple question seems to follow in my mind. Why are women allowed to vote? Have jobs? Compete with men in the work force? Men must compete with women for employment - from a macro level it seems unfair to me that he must, by default, be the provider, or primary provider on this basis alone.

You know, a traditional vow in marriage is "for richer or for poorer". A commitment that lasts through poverty, sickness and the ups and downs of every relationship. If men are primarily prized by women for being the PROVIDER - how is her view of him changed if, for some reason, he faulters in this role?

In my family - both my parents worked. My dad was cheif PROVIDER for many years till he lost his job and had to settle for something that earned alot less - then my mom was cheif PROVIDER. Big deal - no one thought less of the other.
 
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tapi

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Semi blind post:

Does it seem at all inconsistant that the male, by virtue of having more testosterone and a penis - is expected to pay for dates? Numerous women have said it shows "financial stability" and "maturity".

So how does a woman show "financial stability" and "maturity"? Or are these qualities not valued or needed in a woman? Oh wait - the man is the PROVIDER - thus implying the woman is the DEPENDANT. Whatever one says about the "gold digger" label - this is what is implied. Man provides. Woman is provided for. Not the other way around, and not on an equitable basis.

Cool. So - simple question seems to follow in my mind. Why are women allowed to vote? Have jobs? Compete with men in the work force? Men must compete with women for employment - from a macro level it seems unfair to me that he must, by default, be the provider, or primary provider on this basis alone.

You know, a traditional vow in marriage is "for richer or for poorer". A commitment that lasts through poverty, sickness and the ups and downs of every relationship. If men are primarily prized by women for being the PROVIDER - how is her view of him changed if, for some reason, he faulters in this role?

In my family - both my parents worked. My dad was cheif PROVIDER for many years till he lost his job and had to settle for something that earned alot less - then my mom was cheif PROVIDER. Big deal - no one thought less of the other.

+1, great post!

In my family it's been quite similar; when I used to be a young child my dad had good income, then he started to have some problems with his back and knees and had to change jobs which reduced his income drastically and ultimately had to retire in his early 50s due to rheumatoid arthritis and my mom has been the primary provider in their household ever since.

For me personally, money has never been a big deal in one way or another; it's nice to have it, but sometimes you have to come by with a little less.. If I have a lot of money, I certainly often do buy drinks / food for my friends if we are eating / having a couple drinks somewhere and I don't expect or ask them to return the favor, but quite often it happens :)

If I were dating as a student another student with both having quite minimal income it'd feel unreasonable for me to have to pay for everything just because I'm male.. I mean, it's no problem for me to pay if I have money for it, but I think it should be 50-50 in a situation like that, at least after the initial first few dates :)
 
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SneakerPimp53

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That's not what I said. But certainly, I'm breaking out the big guns a lot more often when I'm in the early stages of a relationship than when I'm not.

And I pointing out that buying clothing, even if for a specific date, still gives you clothing that you can continue to use. What it comes down to is you'd buy and do all these things anyway, but suddenly if you're dating it becomes his responsibility to pay for it all.



Actually, they don't. I don't have a single girlfriend who doesn't have a seperate brow girl, and a seperate coiffeur guy. Would you trust your dentist to handle your rosacea, just because they're both in the medical field?

No, but then again I wouldn't pretend applying body wax is some how similar to complex medical treatments.

No. So why is a guy who handles cut & colour, any more equipped to deal with estecthics? Hair and eyebrows are two very different things.

Because going through beauty school must be a lot like medical school. I'm pretty sure someone that cuts hair could spend 20 minutes learning how to apply hot wax and rip it off. It's not surgery after all.

I will agree that some barbers throw in free brow trimming (admittedly, my father's) but the amount of these men (unfortunately, also including my dad) who actually have good brows is a small, microscopic minority. You get what you pay for.

That's a real shame, bad eyebrows.


It can be up to $60 for a wax including brows and an area of body hair, depending on the salon. Even at a restaurant, that's 2 salmon filet dinners. We've both invested $60 into the relationship if I've spent the money on waxing, and you covered my dinner that night.

Maybe at the Olive Garden. At a good steakhouse a decent cut of meat and side will run anywhere from 40-100+ dollars. Start tacking on salads, wine, cocktails, and the like and a trip to a steakhouse could easily go well over 200 dollars.



My legs get way more attention when I'm dating someone than when I'm not. I can really, go 2 weeks between doing my legs really before the hair is visible enough that I shouldn't be wearing skirts or shorts, but there's been times I've shaved every 2-3 days when casually dating someone. I'm not complaining about the cost, but the suggestion that men are so hard done by because they cover the cost of dinner during the courting stages, while I spend as much on my physical image to make the man happy, seems like a sour grapes argument to make.

Not really a sour grapes argument at all, I am getting married in a couple months after all. I just find it beyond silly that someone believes their personal grooming costs entitle them sponge activities and meals off someone else. It's not really about being hard done, guys like myself that don't go in for your line of reasoning don't put with it. At the same time you can't really complain if a guy decides to dump you solely because he's sick of picking up the tab all the time.

If you don't want to spend the extra money, don't expect us to put any extra effort.

I expect nothing of you at all.


Do you really think if a woman is vain enough to spend her disposable income on extra waxing, hair care beyond shampoo, & conditioner, clothing and snazzy undies, she wouldn't also be vain enough to go to the gym or exercise?

Weaksauce.

Do you, or any of your female friends, spend hundreds of dollars a month on supplements required to build muscle? There's a huge difference in what men and women generally want to accomplish at the gym. Just as there's a huge difference between a guy that's actively body building and a woman that does 30 minutes of cardio here and there.
Personally, I think it's fufu, but you also seem to be ignoring that men are spending record levels of money on their own grooming products. Everything from expensive hair styling gels and skin care products to getting manicures and pedicures themselves.

Anywho, I can see this is just turning into one-man-upship, so I'll be moving on. I just felt several of your arguments (especially the suggestion I should just get the guy who does my hair to wax my brows) to be out of touch with modern times.

No more out of touch with modern times than your assumption men do nothing for themselves but hop in a shower and pull on some clothes.


I've never had a fat guy come on to me. And I'm certainly not the type to come on strong to a guy, so I've never actually gone on a date with someone fat where the question of who was to pay came up.

Let's be honest here: a fat guy would have a snow ball's chance in hell and you know it.
 
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Im_A

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Ok,
I was raised in the school of paying half the bill for the first few dates.
Or something similar, that pretty much balances out how much each person spent on the date.

I've heard the whole "The person who does the asking out should do the paying." thing but I still don't feel comfortable with it all the time.

There are also moments that my other female friends seem far more in tune with. Like when I started talking to this guy when we were out on the town and she excused herself to the ladies room when we walked into dunkin' because she "knew" he was going to pay for my hot cocoa. I didn't. I said thank you, but I was surprised and felt a tad uncomfortable about it.

I'm cool with guys holding doors open and being chivalrous in their behavior, but for some reason the line gets drawn for me when money is involved.

It makes me feel like they're trying to buy me or I feel like I'm using them. Is there a norm for this?

Do these situations make anybody else really uncomfortable?

EDIT: One of my friends also told me that if a guy asks you out and you don't let him pay it's emasculating. That it hurts their feelings. Is that true?
It doesn't hurt my feeling but typically I am not one to let the situation go where she can pay. She will have to have the same forthcoming attitude that I have to beat me to it. If she doesn't or is not that forthcoming and has a problem with me...that's her problem not mine.

If she feels uncomfortable because of some abstract idea of buying her that is not founded when one doesn't know the person, which makes no sense because that means the one that worries about that, thinks there is a price that one is worth, just because I want to pay to make her feel special, so again, that's her problem not mine. I don't expect her to change cause I just won't be around her because I know I am not changing. For me, it would be extremely problematic for a girl to think that I am trying to buy her or the other wild eyed notions for me paying for a date that I have heard.

If she beats me to the punch, that is brownie points for her. The only way to emasculate me is to punch me in my privates, or diss what I do for a living after falling in love with me. Her beating me to the punch, that would mean she has the audacity to be that forthcoming to make me feel special to pay for something even if it is something small as a beer, coffee, or a .50 cent snack or a night on the town for me. We share something in common as well.

Thankfully, I don't think my new lady is going to complain too much if I want to pay for dinner or something. I also believe she is the type to take it in the way I mean it. I hope she has the audacity to beat me to the punch...I think she does. I am not like this cause of rule of thumb given by some social standard. My father never taught me things like that. The closest he came was to tell me women want a man to take care of them, which he wasn't meaning with the idea of dating and who pays(stretch it out if one wants to for their liking, I don't stretch it out of context) and I missed social code of dating conduct 101 growing up. I just learned...I pay for her, she is very happy. Good enough reason for me because I then learned...they stay around for a decent amount of time, and they don't act psycho about it and I get to watch them be their girly self afterwards and they are very appreciative...nice. It is even better when the girls I have done this for the most are very reasonable women. So I learn like a rat in a cage.
 
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