Want to date or be dateable, attractive to women... Therapy or dating coach?

christiansoccerplayer

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I am a 46-year old male (never married, never had a relationship) and both tired of being single all the time and lacking dating/relationship experience (I've only been on two dates my whole life). After my latest strikeout in which I approached someone and gained confidence that I can actually risk rejection, I realized if I would wanted a shot at a relationship that could lead to marriage, I would have to be willing to step up and make the moves myself, risking being uncomfortable, being anxious and having a slight likehood of getting shot down in the process (sad that everyone else learns this in high school or college, and I am finally realizing it in middle age). I felt if I made more moves more often other than every few years (before I approached the last woman, I had not asked anyone out for over 3 years), I would get turned down plenty but that would lead me closer to someone saying "yes". After talking with a family member and my closest friend, it was suggested I should seek therapy/counseling to deal with both internal stuff from my childhood or other more recent points in my past (nothing I am prepared to disclose publicly as it is far too personal) as well as be more confident or at least less anxious/nervous interacting with the opposite sex (esp. those I get serious interest in). A big question I have if I want to gain more confidence with women, is going to counseling/therapy extreme or overkill? Should I also consider a dating coach in addition or in place of therapy? Thank you
 

John G.

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Have you tried online single sites where you can strike up a conversation and get to feel at ease with a person before any meeting / greeting takes place?
Of course there are risks (scammers, pretend-Christians) but there are always risks in meeting someone.
 
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christiansoccerplayer

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Neither are a guarantee. It is a gift from God. Go to him.
What is a gift from God? Yes, we should take everything to God but that doesn't mean we can't seek help from other people including people such as counselors or therapists. That maybe their God-given calling or purpose
 
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christiansoccerplayer

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Have you tried online single sites where you can strike up a conversation and get to feel at ease with a person before any meeting / greeting takes place?
Of course there are risks (scammers, pretend-Christians) but there are always risks in meeting someone.
If by online single sites, you mean dating sites then yes I have. And it's been fruitless as all but one I've used I've attracted dishonest people, scam artists and gold diggers who likely viewed me as a human checking account or ATM. I would rather be ignored or ghosted than scammed. I MIGHT try again but it will only be with a Christian one (no Match, Plenty of Fish, eHarmony) and it sure as heck will not be Tinder.
 
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DragonFox91

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What is a gift from God? Yes, we should take everything to God but that doesn't mean we can't seek help from other people including people such as counselors or therapists. That maybe their God-given calling or purpose
Your lack of confidence is probably coming these aren’t the right ones so you get nervous. Some people just aren’t a good fit for each other. It’s not you. I wonder if you’re ‘going after’ the wrong kind.

A therapist or coach can’t make someone like you. Someone either likes you or they don’t. Most people will not like you. It’s true for everyone. Some people are just harder to talk to. It doesn’t mean anything.

Where are these therapists & coaches getting their information from? What makes it true? Why will it work for you? People can tell when you're putting on an act. People can tell when you're trying to force something that isn't you. Any 'skill' or lesson you need has to be learned thru action. It's called genuineness.

God brings people who like you into your life. He brings you into their life. A therapist or dating coach cannot do that.

A therapist is more for deep psychological issues & trauma, truly rock-bottom. You’re above their paygrade, you’re better than that.

Waste of money & time. You need to work on meeting people, meeting more people, meeting different people. But I hear that a lot & that’s not enough: go deeper in relationships you have, deeper w/ new people you meet. Seeing a therapist or coach, you’ll always be obsessing about your goal, you’ll be trying too hard, you’ll get frustrated when the shortcut you’re hoping a coach is isn’t short.

You’re asking women per your post, the issue isn’t you being too anxious to ask!

Could a reason you don’t ask more b/c you’re not finding ones you’re interested in? I know that’s the case for me many times. There’s so many secular women, women that are married, women with boyfriends, women that probably just wouldn’t be a good match for me, women I probably wouldn’t be a good match for, etc. I don’t ask many either. It’s not always a confidence thing or not willing to take a risk asking. That's the secular world telling you you're not asking women so you need to panic. You’re goal isn’t to ask as many as you can & pray one sticks, you’re goal is to find the one for you. You actually want to be picky. People who rush it & force it, it leads to so many of the world’s problems.
 
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christiansoccerplayer

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Your lack of confidence is probably coming these aren’t the right ones so you get nervous. Some people just aren’t a good fit for each other. It’s not you. I wonder if you’re ‘going after’ the wrong kind.

A therapist or coach can’t make someone like you. Someone either likes you or they don’t. Most people will not like you. It’s true for everyone. Some people are just harder to talk to. It doesn’t mean anything.

Where are these therapists & coaches getting their information from? What makes it true? Why will it work for you? People can tell when you're putting on an act. People can tell when you're trying to force something that isn't you. Any 'skill' or lesson you need has to be learned thru action. It's called genuineness.

God brings people who like you into your life. He brings you into their life. A therapist or dating coach cannot do that.

A therapist is more for deep psychological issues & trauma, truly rock-bottom. You’re above their paygrade, you’re better than that.

Waste of money & time. You need to work on meeting people, meeting more people, meeting different people. But I hear that a lot & that’s not enough: go deeper in relationships you have, deeper w/ new people you meet. Seeing a therapist or coach, you’ll always be obsessing about your goal, you’ll be trying too hard, you’ll get frustrated when the shortcut you’re hoping a coach is isn’t short.

You’re asking women per your post, the issue isn’t you being too anxious to ask!

Could a reason you don’t ask more b/c you’re not finding ones you’re interested in? I know that’s the case for me many times. There’s so many secular women, women that are married, women with boyfriends, women that probably just wouldn’t be a good match for me, women I probably wouldn’t be a good match for, etc. I don’t ask many either. It’s not always a confidence thing or not willing to take a risk asking. That's the secular world telling you you're not asking women so you need to panic. You’re goal isn’t to ask as many as you can & pray one sticks, you’re goal is to find the one for you. You actually want to be picky. People who rush it & force it, it leads to so many of the world’s problems.
The most recent person i asked out, I was interested and was not just asking for the sake of asking out since I had not asked out anyone for three years. It's kinda tough with my work and personal schedule to meet a lot of people and my social circles are not big so perhaps a counselor or dating coach can help with that. I do think there is not really trauma but some there is likely other deeper internal issues that have resulted in me asking relatively few women out during my life. I know talking to therapist cannot make someone like me but it might help me do better at talking and relating to the opposite sex. I have not actually seen a therapist/counselor yet. It is just something I am considering. If I ask out more women, I can find out what exactly I want in a partner and don't want. Most everyone starts doing this when they are in HS or college; I very far behind the 8-ball. As I've heard from Christian relationship experts such as Debra Fileta (who is a counselor/therapist) and Mark Ballenger is that a Christian men who want to be married have to be active and pursue the woman. That doesn't mean go out and ask every woman you possibly can. I think it means be open to the idea and have your eyes open
 
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DragonFox91

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The most recent person i asked out, I was interested and was not just asking for the sake of asking out since I had not asked out anyone for three years. It's kinda tough with my work and personal schedule to meet a lot of people and my social circles are not big so perhaps a counselor or dating coach can help with that. I do think there is not really trauma but some there is likely other deeper internal issues that have resulted in me asking relatively few women out during my life. I know talking to therapist cannot make someone like me but it might help me do better at talking and relating to the opposite sex. I have not actually seen a therapist/counselor yet. It is just something I am considering. If I ask out more women, I can find out what exactly I want in a partner and don't want. Most everyone starts doing this when they are in HS or college; I very far behind the 8-ball. As I've heard from Christian relationship experts such as Debra Fileta (who is a counselor/therapist) and Mark Ballenger is that a Christian men who want to be married have to be active and pursue the woman. That doesn't mean go out and ask every woman you possibly can. I think it means be open to the idea and have your eyes open
I understand. I talk to a pastor a lot about dating stuff, so don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong w/ seeking help out. I’m glad you’re taking initiative. Just be aware what they can & cannot do. It’ll be a good learning experience for you either way. You seem very level-headed. Dating & marriage is no guarantee & it's easy to get frustrated about, so your attitude is good. I think some kind of life counselor, pastor, or life coach is more what you’re looking for than a therapist or even dating coach.
 
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GodBeMercifulToMeASinner

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No, and no. If you rely on the ways of Babylon the not so great, such as ‘dating coaches’ and ‘therapy’ then expect Babylonian results (and plenty money wasted of course). It is all rooted in New Age/Eastern Mysticism, and pseudo-intellectualism. Yes even the ‘Christian’ versions of those, I guarantee. The official mantra of those type of rackets is ‘love yourself’ which is a satanic teaching (2 Timothy 3:1-2). I looked up those 2 people real quick that you mentioned..both basically snake oil hustlers trying to cash in on the loneliness of single Christians or their relationship problems. You’d be better off talking to older married couples you know in real life for relationship advice. They don’t have a financial interest at stake. Are there any at your religious assembly or in your neighborhood? Besides, there is lots of other wisdom to be gained by having older friends.

Anyway, all these coaches and therapists are going to do is guide you towards striving for more worldly appeal. All that will do is increase your chances of attracting worldly, shallow types which you want to avoid in the first place. Your confidence should be in Christ anyways, not your own strength. And definitely not in the quackery of modern psychology, which ironically is based on the theories of a cocaine addled lunatic, Sigmund Fraud. Psychology, root word = ‘psyche’, a Greek word for the spirit or soul, also a Greek pagan goddess. Not a good idea to involve yourself in that racket, my opinion anyways. The only guarantee is you’ll be spending a nice chunk of money. Look at it this way, how does it look to a secular or pagan therapist or ‘date coach’ when you reveal you are Christian, and are seeking them out for their ‘help’..it doesn’t make for a good testimony do you see what I mean? Rely on God.

You just have to do it, and not worry so much on the results, and trust God that it is for the best regardless. You come across someone you are interested in, ask them to hang out with you sometime. If they say no, who cares. It really isn’t a big deal. I’d recommend getting to know someone a bit before even bothering to ask her out. That way you should be able to tell if they’re interested or not. If they are a stable, sane, decent person or not, etc. These ‘rejections’ you have had, maybe they are blessings? Maybe that was God protecting you? Learn to be content (Philippians 4:11). You’re more likely to attract someone if you’re content as you are and if you invite someone else into your life they better be an asset otherwise what is the point? So it is good you don’t just ask out anyone for the sake of it, better to wait for the right type of person. See, if we are completely honest, there’s never been a better time for a man to be single, let’s put it that way haha..thanks to the deadly combo of social media, toxic feminism, and the official Clown World ‘24 mantra of ‘love yourself’ which breeds narcissism. The Unholy Trinity LOL..hey, it’s the truth. You’re looking for a needle in a haystack in this day and age partner haha, don’t be so disappointed if ya don’t find it. Always put God first, nothing else really matters.

Don’t go back to the dating sites..they’re full of narcissists and other highly toxic individuals seeking validation. Yes, even the ‘Christian’ ones. Most people who claim to be Christian these days are just churchians, rather than God’s called out people. Use discernment. Focus on Christ’s 2 greatest commandments, and allow God to make you into someone highly qualified to lead spiritually who places their confidence in Him alone, not self, not the rackets of the world like therapy or date coaches. That way, if and when someone you like comes around, it is their loss if they ‘reject’ you. And if you’re single for life, who cares. You’re only here in Clown World for 50, 60, 80 years or whatever..it’s just a lil’ tiny speck of time compared to eternity, whatever happens it really doesn’t matter that much. Your mind state should be that you are open to the idea of marriage, or that it would be nice to be married some day if you meet the right person, don’t let it be the determining factor of your contentment that would be a mistake.
 
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christiansoccerplayer

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No, and no. If you rely on the ways of Babylon the not so great, such as ‘dating coaches’ and ‘therapy’ then expect Babylonian results (and plenty money wasted of course). It is all rooted in New Age/Eastern Mysticism, and pseudo-intellectualism. Yes even the ‘Christian’ versions of those, I guarantee. The official mantra of those type of rackets is ‘love yourself’ which is a satanic teaching (2 Timothy 3:1-2). I looked up those 2 people real quick that you mentioned..both basically snake oil hustlers trying to cash in on the loneliness of single Christians or their relationship problems. You’d be better off talking to older married couples you know in real life for relationship advice. They don’t have a financial interest at stake. Are there any at your religious assembly or in your neighborhood? Besides, there is lots of other wisdom to be gained by having older friends.

Anyway, all these coaches and therapists are going to do is guide you towards striving for more worldly appeal. All that will do is increase your chances of attracting worldly, shallow types which you want to avoid in the first place. Your confidence should be in Christ anyways, not your own strength. And definitely not in the quackery of modern psychology, which ironically is based on the theories of a cocaine addled lunatic, Sigmund Fraud. Psychology, root word = ‘psyche’, a Greek word for the spirit or soul, also a Greek pagan goddess. Not a good idea to involve yourself in that racket, my opinion anyways. The only guarantee is you’ll be spending a nice chunk of money. Look at it this way, how does it look to a secular or pagan therapist or ‘date coach’ when you reveal you are Christian, and are seeking them out for their ‘help’..it doesn’t make for a good testimony do you see what I mean? Rely on God.

You just have to do it, and not worry so much on the results, and trust God that it is for the best regardless. You come across someone you are interested in, ask them to hang out with you sometime. If they say no, who cares. It really isn’t a big deal. I’d recommend getting to know someone a bit before even bothering to ask her out. That way you should be able to tell if they’re interested or not. If they are a stable, sane, decent person or not, etc. These ‘rejections’ you have had, maybe they are blessings? Maybe that was God protecting you? Learn to be content (Philippians 4:11). You’re more likely to attract someone if you’re content as you are and if you invite someone else into your life they better be an asset otherwise what is the point? So it is good you don’t just ask out anyone for the sake of it, better to wait for the right type of person. See, if we are completely honest, there’s never been a better time for a man to be single, let’s put it that way haha..thanks to the deadly combo of social media, toxic feminism, and the official Clown World ‘24 mantra of ‘love yourself’ which breeds narcissism. The Unholy Trinity LOL..hey, it’s the truth. You’re looking for a needle in a haystack in this day and age partner haha, don’t be so disappointed if ya don’t find it. Always put God first, nothing else really matters.

Don’t go back to the dating sites..they’re full of narcissists and other highly toxic individuals seeking validation. Yes, even the ‘Christian’ ones. Most people who claim to be Christian these days are just churchians, rather than God’s called out people. Use discernment. Focus on Christ’s 2 greatest commandments, and allow God to make you into someone highly qualified to lead spiritually who places their confidence in Him alone, not self, not the rackets of the world like therapy or date coaches. That way, if and when someone you like comes around, it is their loss if they ‘reject’ you. And if you’re single for life, who cares. You’re only here in Clown World for 50, 60, 80 years or whatever..it’s just a lil’ tiny speck of time compared to eternity, whatever happens it really doesn’t matter that much. Your mind state should be that you are open to the idea of marriage, or that it would be nice to be married some day if you meet the right person, don’t let it be the determining factor of your contentment that would be a mistake.
Totally disagree about Debra Fileta and Mark Ballenger. They quote Scripture and their advice is Biblical. There are some other relationship gurus who are secular who I do not pay attention to as much.
I can be content "in" singleness but I will not be content "with"... if everyone was content "with" singleness, NO ONE would get married. A lot of married people have told me to "never marry" so they have zero credibility until they get a divorce. If marriage is so bad then why did they get married? Why can't I?
I understand about content; I have been content for a while. Before I asked this lady out, I have not asked anyone out in like three years so it's not like I'm desperate or anything.
God has placed this desire for marriage that He called good in my heart. I care if I'm single for life. You might have the gift of being okay with lifetime singleness; I can assure you I do not. I do seek God in everything but I don't see anything wrong in having another person, especially somebody like a counselor or therapist. I always talk to God but He desires us to seek help from others if we need it. Maybe my life is but drop of water compared to the ocean of eternity but what is so wrong with wanting to share that short-lived earth life with someone. It's like everyone else that wants to date, get a partner and get married gets advice and encouragement but I just get told to basically to be quiet and be happy being single. Double standards and hypocrisy abound. I think it's a good idea for me to think of ways to deal with internal issues and get healthy enough to be a man worth marrying (even if I never do, I have to know I tried and took action). Even Paul said if someone marries they have not sinned (1st Corin 7:28), Yes, I know he recommends singleness but he, like Jesus, knows not everyone can be single. Jesus also said this Matthew 19:10-12 that not everyone can accept the idea that it may not be better to marry. I believe I'm one of those people.
Then it again, maybe it is God's will for me to be on the path to marriage but Satan and his demons are doing everything to stop it (this has been suggested to me)
SIngles should not be shamed for desiring marriage so much that they are willing to take hard and uncomfortable steps (I really don't like going to therapy) to give them a chance. I'm single but that does not mean I have to like it. I suppose if I actually had the gift of celibacy/singleness and did not care at all if I married or not, I would not have made this thread in the first place and I most certainly would not have composed such as passionate response (pardon me if I sounded harsh at points).
And one other point, once a Christian dies or is Raptured, there is no more marriage. So all of my fellow Christians, single or married or whatever, that want to see me be single permanently, that time is coming.
 
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GodBeMercifulToMeASinner

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Well, satan himself recited scripture as well..what matters is how is it used. Someone just recited multiple passages to me, and clearly didn’t have a clue what they meant LOL. If these people truly were ‘relationship gurus’ they wouldn’t have a very big audience because all their audience’s problems would be solved. Likely you all didn’t just start following them recently, yet you are all still single. Think about it. Talk to older people who have healthy marriages that have stood the test of time. I bet they’d be glad to help without trying to sell you anything. No clickbait titles, ‘dating college’ tuition, or any of that nonsense. What good will it do them if their audiences were having success? They’d be having less followers, less business. Also, notice how psychology only offers ‘treatment’..no cure..a customer for life is what they want. They need you coming back. Therapists wouldn’t have an ever-growing client base if it was all that effective.

Sure, it is fine to seek help from others. Do you attend a local religious assembly? Your pastor/elders/etc ought to have some sort of biblical wisdom in this matter or any other which concerns you, and pray for you. The world and their therapists and counselors only care about what is in your wallet and once that is empty they’re done with you. All they’re going to do is box you into some prepackaged narrative and go along with that in their ‘work’ with you and the only guarantee is you’re going to be forking over a pretty penny.

What you need is someone older, wiser, more experienced, who has been in the same situation as you. Guarantee somewhere out there maybe even on this forum or your local assembly, who knows, is a Christian man who would be glad to advise you as part of his service to God rather than use you to serve their own belly. Modern psychology is only a bunch of theories made mostly by totally godless, Christ-rejecting people who believe in butchering babies, sodomy, transsexualism and other filth who make a lot of money off other people’s problems they really have no real solution for. Sorry for being so graphic LOL, but think about it..how much help can these people really be in regards to you getting a woman when their field can’t even figure out what a woman is? Lasting solutions are less profitable. I’m just saying.

If you’re right with God you ARE worth marrying. And He will provide all the needs of you and yours. Many are too caught up in what the world deems marriage material and what do they know with that divorce rate? Not much! What exactly is ‘healthy’ here in Clown World ‘24 anyways? A man in a dress won Miss Nevada. Most of the country unquestioningly had themselves injected with an experimental drug and lived in crippling fear of an illness with 99%+ survival rate. A dude in a women’s bathing suit is a girl’s swim team champ.
Many Clown Worldans will stress about being ‘fit’ and eating right, only to go on drinking binges every weekend and having unprotected sex with strangers haha. I recently had this ‘successful’ bozo I was doing a job for try and tell me he lives a ‘pure life’..he had been drinking whiskey since 8am that day LOL! So yeah whatever ‘healthy’ is by Clown World 2024 standards I don’t want to be LOL. No thanks! So you’re shy, a little anxious, haven’t had many dates, it isn’t a big deal. There’s women in the same boat as you, so...

I never said I wanted to see you single, was just saying that it is best not to have your contentment rest on marriage. I’d be the first person to recommend that all Christians remain open to the possibility of marriage. But marrying just for the sake of it is definitely not the path. You should only want to marry because you met someone who you love and will be an asset to your life and your walk with the Lord. There’s worse things than being single. I’ve been in long term relationships before, and also been single for a good amount of time too so I can tell you one really isn’t any better than the other they both have their pros and cons. And the girlfriends I had in my life just sort of showed up one day unexpected, I didn’t care one bit about being single. I don’t think they did either.

No I didn’t think you were ‘harsh’ either feel free to be as harsh as ya wish with me LOL..I am not into this ‘outrage culture’ of being offended over everything. Really the only thing I have a problem with is fake niceties, or gaslighting, projection, and liars..I will take harsh over that garbage any day..not that you were any of that at all. But I encourage you to leave this in God’s hands and if He desires you to marry it will happen..satan or hypocritical people aren’t going to stop it.

Another thing to consider..were there any ‘single’s ministries’ (puke) in the NT? Did Christ not make a whip for those who were merely selling goods out of the temple? What is He going to come with for those who shamelessly profit off the loneliness of His people?

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.”
—2 Peter 2:1-3
 
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Sketcher

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After talking with a family member and my closest friend, it was suggested I should seek therapy/counseling to deal with both internal stuff from my childhood or other more recent points in my past (nothing I am prepared to disclose publicly as it is far too personal) as well as be more confident or at least less anxious/nervous interacting with the opposite sex (esp. those I get serious interest in). A big question I have if I want to gain more confidence with women, is going to counseling/therapy extreme or overkill? Should I also consider a dating coach in addition or in place of therapy? Thank you
So, a friend of mine who knows me pretty well is a Christian and a practicing therapist. He can't be my therapist for ethical reasons, but he told me I could probably benefit from therapy. I'm looking into that - I've got some upcoming medical expenses coming up so I don't actually have a therapist yet - but I'm leaning towards seeing what's out there. A few things my friend stressed:
  1. Give the therapist feedback, a good therapist will be flexible to your feedback as opposed to ramrodding you in a wrong direction.
  2. A good therapist is going to listen to you as opposed to recommending X, Y, and Z no matter what you tell him. He doesn't "give advice".
  3. You have the power to give the aforementioned feedback, and to determine if the therapist you're seeing is a right fit for you. The first one you talk to might not be the right fit.
Concerning dating coaches, you really need to see if the lifestyle they espouse aligns with your goals and values. The ones I know about and tried to read all seemed to emphasize getting men in the sack with women, and ending that relationship when she tries shenanigans. I can get behind the latter but not the former. The former conditions men to look for easy lays, which are not the same kinds of women that intelligent men who value themselves want to marry. And when you condition yourself to go for the easy lays, that process changes you for the worse - the downfall of Neil Strauss and the loss of his marriage is a case in point for that.
 
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ThisIsMe123

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So, a friend of mine who knows me pretty well is a Christian and a practicing therapist. He can't be my therapist for ethical reasons, but he told me I could probably benefit from therapy. I'm looking into that - I've got some upcoming medical expenses coming up so I don't actually have a therapist yet - but I'm leaning towards seeing what's out there. A few things my friend stressed:
  1. Give the therapist feedback, a good therapist will be flexible to your feedback as opposed to ramrodding you in a wrong direction.
  2. A good therapist is going to listen to you as opposed to recommending X, Y, and Z no matter what you tell him. He doesn't "give advice".
  3. You have the power to give the aforementioned feedback, and to determine if the therapist you're seeing is a right fit for you. The first one you talk to might not be the right fit.
Concerning dating coaches, you really need to see if the lifestyle they espouse aligns with your goals and values. The ones I know about and tried to read all seemed to emphasize getting men in the sack with women, and ending that relationship when she tries shenanigans. I can get behind the latter but not the former. The former conditions men to look for easy lays, which are not the same kinds of women that intelligent men who value themselves want to marry. And when you condition yourself to go for the easy lays, that process changes you for the worse - the downfall of Neil Strauss and the loss of his marriage is a case in point for that.

Yeah, I don't know why that one guy poo-poos therapists, my employer pays for mine 100% all the way, and she's been helpful as a work place therapist when certain traumatic events happen.

Yeah, in agreement to the easy lays. I know men like this, though well intentioned, they use these women as in-betweeners before they settle down with someone they actually want to spend the long term with. Otherwise, they are just enjoying the sex, while tolerating the deal breakers up until a certain point and then end things. The ladies aren't too happy about it either.

I had a married man tell me that you have to "plow" a few women to get to "the one"...a disgusting analogy, I'm like "Um...no".
 
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Yeah, I don't know why that one guy poo-poos therapists, my employer pays for mine 100% all the way, and she's been helpful as a work place therapist when certain traumatic events happen.

Yeah, in agreement to the easy lays. I know men like this, though well intentioned, they use these women as in-betweeners before they settle down with someone they actually want to spend the long term with. Otherwise, they are just enjoying the sex, while tolerating the deal breakers up until a certain point and then end things. The ladies aren't too happy about it either.

I had a married man tell me that you have to "plow" a few women to get to "the one"...a disgusting analogy, I'm like "Um...no".
Honestly, the only "upside" I see to that is if the woman you marry was promiscuous too, and is prone to jealousy anyway. That way, you have this in your back pocket in case she tries to justify things like talking to an ex again, or thinking about past sexual encounters not with you. (I was actually asked if this was OK once by a married Christian woman, whose Christian husband also had a past - I was flabbergasted, went back to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and then the horrific look on her face and change in tone of her voice told me it got through to her.) Of course, no marriage should have that kind of dynamic but nobody gets married if they think that's going to be a problem.
 
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ReesePiece23

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The mistake a fair few seem to make (possibly after listening to a dating "guru" or reading something online) is that building something out of a friendship is the most taboo thing you can do - however...

As someone who has dated friends - and women where the romantic interest was the sole focal point, I can tell you without any shadow of a doubt that the best romantic experiences I've had, were extracted from the women who I was friends with first. And the reason is simple: we had already spent a great deal of time BUILDING something over several weeks/months and had a close bond established. (The key is relatively new friends, I can't see it working if you've known them for several years.)

I had absolutely nothing established with those who I had gone straight into dating - and as such, the relationships felt cold (despite the attraction, passion and excitement) and if I'm honest, they also felt rather pointless. We'd kiss passionately, but to tell you the truth, I'd have had more fun eating an apple.

The women who I was friends with observed me in various social settings, and were able to build a much more "complete" image of me in the process. It helps too that I'm not overly open and I tend to keep a few things back, so the image of me wasn't SO complete that they knew everything - they'd have a little fun trying to work me out as well, at the same time as trusting me.

When a woman says "I just don't feel it" - it's possible that you've said too much and shown your hand too early. If you leave it too late (more than a year), then they'll probably think you're joking if you ask them out, and the same sentence will apply. So there is an element of timing to get right.

Best way to make new friends is through a hobby or something you're passionate about. Forget dating sites for anything more than a quick hook up or a generic date. You may get lucky on one of them, but through all of the swiping and messaging, you would have been better off pursuing your hobby.

46 is no age these days, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. If anything, you'll appreciate the experience more.
 
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The mistake a fair few seem to make (possibly after listening to a dating "guru" or reading something online) is that building something out of a friendship is the most taboo thing you can do - however...

As someone who has dated friends - and women where the romantic interest was the sole focal point, I can tell you without any shadow of a doubt that the best romantic experiences I've had, were extracted from the women who I was friends with first. And the reason is simple: we had already spent a great deal of time BUILDING something over several weeks/months and had a close bond established. (The key is relatively new friends, I can't see it working if you've known them for several years.)

I had absolutely nothing established with those who I had gone straight into dating - and as such, the relationships felt cold (despite the attraction, passion and excitement) and if I'm honest, they also felt rather pointless. We'd kiss passionately, but to tell you the truth, I'd have had more fun eating an apple.

The women who I was friends with observed me in various social settings, and were able to build a much more "complete" image of me in the process. It helps too that I'm not overly open and I tend to keep a few things back, so the image of me wasn't SO complete that they knew everything - they'd have a little fun trying to work me out as well, at the same time as trusting me.

When a woman says "I just don't feel it" - it's possible that you've said too much and shown your hand too early. If you leave it too late (more than a year), then they'll probably think you're joking if you ask them out, and the same sentence will apply. So there is an element of timing to get right.

Best way to make new friends is through a hobby or something you're passionate about. Forget dating sites for anything more than a quick hook up or a generic date. You may get lucky on one of them, but through all of the swiping and messaging, you would have been better off pursuing your hobby.

46 is no age these days, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. If anything, you'll appreciate the experience more.
You'd think this be the best way to find a lady, is via friends first...however, when I did this....I would get the "Sorry, I don't think of you in that way" or there simply wouldn't be any attraction. They just see you as a platonic buddy or pal. Sometimes they are caught off guard by you switching to showing romantic interest after all this time.

For some, the "it' factor isn't there or it is.

I knew a woman that she would go out with "as friends" only to have these guys muss things up by making a move on her, and severing ties with her.
My parents went straight into dating...they met as a cold encounter and casual conversation on the beach, the rest was dating from there.
 
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bèlla

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You'd think this be the best way to find a lady, is via friends first...however, when I did this....I would get the "Sorry, I don't think of you in that way" or there simply wouldn't be any attraction. They just see you as a platonic buddy or pal. Sometimes they are caught off guard by you switching to showing romantic interest after all this time.

It only appears that way because you're conflating the purpose. When a person desires to date they expect an attraction and look for it upfront. They aren't interested in developing one if the latter is possible.

You'd be better off developing an acquaintance and limiting your prospects to those desiring courtship. As I outlined in my post. They're most likely to draw from friends and acquaintances than the rest.

For some, the "it' factor isn't there or it is.

I knew a woman that she would go out with "as friends" only to have these guys muss things up by making a move on her, and severing ties with her.

When a man looks at a woman he considers her potential. But women are different. It's either or. She's attracted or she's not. If she's attracted to him he goes into the potential pile. If she isn't but she enjoys his company he goes into the other. It's difficult for her to see the men in the second group as potential suitors because she determined he wasn't. That's why he's in the group. If she's attracted to him and they choose to be friends that's different. She isn't denying the possibility. She just hasn't acted on it.

To do what you're suggesting requires a different mindset that isn't feminine. She'd have to believe that everyone has potential and refuse to limit herself to attraction as the primary motivator. She'd need a wait and see approach and the willingness to take a chance.

Bear in mind, the average woman is looking for security. That's her bottom line. Attraction is the door to its exploration. But if you communicate the same upfront you'll get her attention. That's why men get nice cars. It's not the only reason. But he's aware of what it suggests: I have a good income.

~bella
 
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bèlla

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My parents went straight into dating...they met as a cold encounter and casual conversation on the beach, the rest was dating from there.

We're in a different era that's heavily impacted by technology. I mentioned this yesterday in a reply but the thread was closed. But the post was good and I saved it. I'll put it below. It addresses your comment and touches on the OP too.

..........

There are realities about our culture that differentiate us from former times and we're ignoring the consequences.

Three generations have been deeply influenced by technology: Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z. These same generations are the most impacted by the Internet. They reside in a society who spends significant time interacting with people they've never met, will never meet, or who live outside of their area.

That's immensely limiting and has a profound effect on relationships. It's altered the concept of connections and minimized the benefit of neighborliness. Because of their exposure they're the most likely consumers of social media and its most active participants. Which introduced a level of ostracization that didn't exist before its arrival.

When words were prominent everyone could participate. You were judged on your contribution not your person. But when social media came to the fore it was more selective. The collective was handpicked and exposure was refined. You weren't put in the company of someone you didn't want to be around. Unlike a setting like this where you have no choice.

Social media became the first iteration of exclusion under the guise of friendship. As we progressed in our selections we became enamored with images and status updates. We expressed our approval through likes and comments and the waters were stirred.

That's when the first inklings reared their head. Nobody likes me. No one wants to be my friend. No one likes my posts. And if others around you have different experiences you feel bad and left out. As it grew in popularity the circles narrowed. Now we have high school 2.0 and everyone wants to be cool.

What began with Facebook exploded with Instagram. Now it's show and tell. We don't have to talk. A picture is worth a 1,000 words and instant credibility. You can tell a person you're doing something but when you back it up with a photo it speaks volumes. We went from high school to lifestyles of the rich and famous.

I'll show who am, what I do, where I go, what I like, what I have and who I'm with. Don't you want to be me?

It's the age of the beautiful ones. Where enough was no longer enough. You had to be more and more was lauded and compensated. A gathering of aesthetes and super dupers and aspiration is the thing. If you're not living it you want to be it and that's all that matters. Plastic surgery exploded, cliques were born according to interests and the gap grew wider and wider.

After a while you realize you can't do the same. You don't have the materials or resources. You can't be like them. So you celebrate your life, faith, etc. and everything gets co-opted and becomes a trend and the majority is unrelatable. This was the greatest onset of depression and isolation. Many felt they didn't fit in and no one included them.

YouTube was the final step. What began with images morphed into visual displays in a longer form. Now you can visit me at home, spend the day with me, hangout in the kitchen and garden, workout with me and so on. The unreality has reached its summit and the years of exposure have taken a toll.

We don't see ourselves or one another the way we used to before the Internet. If you didn't have a strong constitution and self-esteem before you arrived it would chip away little by little. Even if you did you weren't unscathed. If you were the fortunate few: the cool kids, aesthetes and influencers others longed to emulate; you have your own problems.

There's nothing worse than discovering the world is your oyster and you don't know God. There's nothing worse than being privileged when you don't walk with Him. You don't understand the gravity of your circumstances on others who can't say the same. You don't grasp the inequity of your specialness and how frequently you're rewarded for qualities they lack.

This is the world we live in. I'm not surprised by expressions of envy or insecurity. I'm not suprised people feel alone or unloved. I'm not surprised they're friendless. I'm not surprised they're angry or exasperated. Because I was there. I've seen it firsthand.

We're more divided now than we've ever been before and that includes the church. We're like little fragments. Pockets of this one and that one but we all love Jesus and it's a mess. As the world fractures we're going to need greater displays of charity. It has never been easier to separate than it is today.

..........

This is the primary reason people are struggling to find companions. When the Internet did not exist it wasn't as hard. You'd think it'd be easier and perhaps it was for a time. But once social media arrived everything changed. We see differently now. We don't see the person before us. We see ideals.

That's why you're having similar experiences to unbelievers. We're looking at the same things and it affects us. You're having this discussion in polite company. Which means you'll get the sanitized version of what a person's seeking. But if the site prioritized relating equally to discourse and had searchable profiles you'd see the difference. You'd see the things I mentioned and how we influence one another.

You're trying to find a companion in a culture that's increasingly class-based and shallow. You're going to struggle because there's little incentive to behave differently. When you're watching people do things that get rewarded, noticed and compensated it's hard to ignore.

Ordinary is no longer valued. You can't be a guy who goes to work and tries to live decently. That's not enough. You've got to make it splashier. So you hit the gym, go for a hike, have a weekend getaway, and hangout with friends at a bbq. You have to be a living highlight reel. That's the new normal.

The Internet is shaping their identity that's why they're looking for lifestyles not persons. The question I posted on hashtags is devised to expose those influences.

If you were asked to describe yourself in five hashtags what would you say? Write them down then look them up and ask yourself a question. Is that the way I am or how I want to be seen? And if it's the latter ask yourself what needs to change and do it.

It's a catch-22. You're naturally inclined to put on your best face. Understanding how you wish to be seen helps you reconcile the same with others.

I understand the draw of desiring what your parents had. But they didn't live in these conditions. Even the people who are trying to go back to earlier times face similar challenges. God placed us in this period which means we have the ability to weather it.

If I was in your shoes I'd take up farming and become a homesteader. It's the only thing I've seen that comes closest to normal without the scrutiny and expectations. You don't have to be handsome, earn a lot of money, be buff, no kids is fine, don't have to dress up, etc. There's a heavy Christian population, a lot women are attracted to the lifestyle, and gardening is beneficial.

The culture attracts ordinary people. You have your outliers of course. But the majority have traditional values. The lifestyle requires a measure of simplicity. The qualities most appealing are stable, hardworking and dependable. They're not after a highlight reel. That's the closest you'll get to your parents.

~bella
 
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ThisIsMe123

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We're in a different era that's heavily impacted by technology. I mentioned this yesterday in a reply but the thread was closed. But the post was good and I saved it. I'll put it below. It addresses your comment and touches on the OP too.

..........

There are realities about our culture that differentiate us from former times and we're ignoring the consequences.

Three generations have been deeply influenced by technology: Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z. These same generations are the most impacted by the Internet. They reside in a society who spends significant time interacting with people they've never met, will never meet, or who live outside of their area.

That's immensely limiting and has a profound effect on relationships. It's altered the concept of connections and minimized the benefit of neighborliness. Because of their exposure they're the most likely consumers of social media and its most active participants. Which introduced a level of ostracization that didn't exist before its arrival.

When words were prominent everyone could participate. You were judged on your contribution not your person. But when social media came to the fore it was more selective. The collective was handpicked and exposure was refined. You weren't put in the company of someone you didn't want to be around. Unlike a setting like this where you have no choice.

Social media became the first iteration of exclusion under the guise of friendship. As we progressed in our selections we became enamored with images and status updates. We expressed our approval through likes and comments and the waters were stirred.

That's when the first inklings reared their head. Nobody likes me. No one wants to be my friend. No one likes my posts. And if others around you have different experiences you feel bad and left out. As it grew in popularity the circles narrowed. Now we have high school 2.0 and everyone wants to be cool.

What began with Facebook exploded with Instagram. Now it's show and tell. We don't have to talk. A picture is worth a 1,000 words and instant credibility. You can tell a person you're doing something but when you back it up with a photo it speaks volumes. We went from high school to lifestyles of the rich and famous.

I'll show who am, what I do, where I go, what I like, what I have and who I'm with. Don't you want to be me?

It's the age of the beautiful ones. Where enough was no longer enough. You had to be more and more was lauded and compensated. A gathering of aesthetes and super dupers and aspiration is the thing. If you're not living it you want to be it and that's all that matters. Plastic surgery exploded, cliques were born according to interests and the gap grew wider and wider.

After a while you realize you can't do the same. You don't have the materials or resources. You can't be like them. So you celebrate your life, faith, etc. and everything gets co-opted and becomes a trend and the majority is unrelatable. This was the greatest onset of depression and isolation. Many felt they didn't fit in and no one included them.

YouTube was the final step. What began with images morphed into visual displays in a longer form. Now you can visit me at home, spend the day with me, hangout in the kitchen and garden, workout with me and so on. The unreality has reached its summit and the years of exposure have taken a toll.

We don't see ourselves or one another the way we used to before the Internet. If you didn't have a strong constitution and self-esteem before you arrived it would chip away little by little. Even if you did you weren't unscathed. If you were the fortunate few: the cool kids, aesthetes and influencers others longed to emulate; you have your own problems.

There's nothing worse than discovering the world is your oyster and you don't know God. There's nothing worse than being privileged when you don't walk with Him. You don't understand the gravity of your circumstances on others who can't say the same. You don't grasp the inequity of your specialness and how frequently you're rewarded for qualities they lack.

This is the world we live in. I'm not surprised by expressions of envy or insecurity. I'm not suprised people feel alone or unloved. I'm not surprised they're friendless. I'm not surprised they're angry or exasperated. Because I was there. I've seen it firsthand.

We're more divided now than we've ever been before and that includes the church. We're like little fragments. Pockets of this one and that one but we all love Jesus and it's a mess. As the world fractures we're going to need greater displays of charity. It has never been easier to separate than it is today.

..........

This is the primary reason people are struggling to find companions. When the Internet did not exist it wasn't as hard. You'd think it'd be easier and perhaps it was for a time. But once social media arrived everything changed. We see differently now. We don't see the person before us. We see ideals.

That's why you're having similar experiences to unbelievers. We're looking at the same things and it affects us. You're having this discussion in polite company. Which means you'll get the sanitized version of what a person's seeking. But if the site prioritized relating equally to discourse and had searchable profiles you'd see the difference. You'd see the things I mentioned and how we influence one another.

You're trying to find a companion in a culture that's increasingly class-based and shallow. You're going to struggle because there's little incentive to behave differently. When you're watching people do things that get rewarded, noticed and compensated it's hard to ignore.

Ordinary is no longer valued. You can't be a guy who goes to work and tries to live decently. That's not enough. You've got to make it splashier. So you hit the gym, go for a hike, have a weekend getaway, and hangout with friends at a bbq. You have to be a living highlight reel. That's the new normal.

The Internet is shaping their identity that's why they're looking for lifestyles not persons. The question I posted on hashtags is devised to expose those influences.

If you were asked to describe yourself in five hashtags what would you say? Write them down then look them up and ask yourself a question. Is that the way I am or how I want to be seen? And if it's the latter ask yourself what needs to change and do it.

It's a catch-22. You're naturally inclined to put on your best face. Understanding how you wish to be seen helps you reconcile the same with others.

I understand the draw of desiring what your parents had. But they didn't live in these conditions. Even the people who are trying to go back to earlier times face similar challenges. God placed us in this period which means we have the ability to weather it.

If I was in your shoes I'd take up farming and become a homesteader. It's the only thing I've seen that comes closest to normal without the scrutiny and expectations. You don't have to be handsome, earn a lot of money, be buff, no kids is fine, don't have to dress up, etc. There's a heavy Christian population, a lot women are attracted to the lifestyle, and gardening is beneficial.

The culture attracts ordinary people. You have your outliers of course. But the majority have traditional values. The lifestyle requires a measure of simplicity. The qualities most appealing are stable, hardworking and dependable. They're not after a highlight reel. That's the closest you'll get to your parents.

~bella

Ver well put.....although, I know some people that have gotten together the old-fasihoned way...still, some are in their 20s. I know a co-worker that asked a co-worker out on a date...they became a couple, and are now engaged.

here is me, playing it cautiously, even warning him, "Dude, don't poop where you eat!" but he ignored me...and turns out, he's almost married to her. Couldn't help but feel a little resentful, as he got away with it, and didn't have HR breathing down his neck.
But HR be damned, according to him.
Sure they use social media, but apparently it wasn't an obstacle.

Though, in person encounters DO exist between even people now, it's like they may be offended now that you approached them in person. They are thinking 'Dude, add me on Insta, and talk to me there....IF I even decide to respond!"

I have a very popular female friend on Facebook....instead of thanking everyone individually for their "Happy Birthdays"< she does it in announcement to the crowd format...impersonal.
 
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--Ordinary is no longer valued. You can't be a guy who goes to work and tries to live decently. That's not enough. You've got to make it splashier. So you hit the gym, go for a hike, have a weekend getaway, and hangout with friends at a bbq. You have to be a living highlight reel. That's the new normal. The Internet is shaping their identity that's why they're looking for lifestyles not persons. The question I posted on hashtags is devised to expose those influences. --

Sadly, this is all just an illusion that's posted on social media. Just...an...illusion.

I also read that 1 out of 5 marriages go south, due to a spouse looking up an old high school flame on social media.
 
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