Dates and who is buying...

[Mrs.Slocombe]

And no, your personal grooming products are not taken as an even trade.

Bull. I'm not talking basic cleanser, moisturizer and toner. I'm talking about the expectation of men I've gone out with - that I look physically attractive beyond basic polish when out in public with them. Granted, I genuinely enjoy makeup, aestetics and fashion, but I also know that there is an expectation that I look a certain way when out in public, with a date in the first little while. You pay for dinner, I put in the effort and not look like a slob on the date.

And I'm sorry, but waxing and shaving is an expensive habit to keep up. As much as a smooth surface is more attractive to me, I also know it's social conditioning largely determined by men. By no means am I nessecarily complaining (eyebrow waxing makes one hell of a difference for most women), but the extra waxing, body sugaring and shaving a woman does while at least, in the early or honeymoon stage of a relationship, ads up to just as much as a few steak dinners.

You spend X amount on the first dinner date, but I've already spent $15 on my brows, another $40 on a bikini wax, nearly $20 by the time I've bought razors and shaving cream for my under-arms and legs. Add all that in to the fact that the pro waxing is once a month, legs & underarms twice/week for a woman with relatively fair and fine hair - and yes, that is a sizeable amount of dough I've also spent to make my SO happy. That also, doesn't include the outfits I'm expected to don when I go meet your (male) friends at the club for the first time, the hostess gift I brought to the pre-drink because a lot of the SOs seem to forget this, and the undie set. And unless I'm going to Wal Mart, that's a sizeable amount of my disposable income I've invested to make my SO happy.

It's all about compromise. If you're going to expect me to look gorgeous all the time, you better be putting in just as much time, effort and disposable income percentage in some capacity.

 

[FlashOfInsight]

When I was a younger lad, far less experienced in the world of romance and dating, paying the way for my date was an almost mandatory gesture on my part. I had always been taught that it was a man's responsibility to be the provider and that such a role would naturally extend to courtship and the like. It was unassailable logic at the time, and, what's more, it was constantly reinforced by a fairly traditional single mother!

As time went on though and I made the inevitable transition out of the home and into independence, I began to critically examine many of the assumptions that I'd held throughout my youth. Kowtowing to those traditional gender roles that I described above couldn't be rationalized in my developing worldview, particularly in light of the fact that I am a staunch advocate of gender equality. So, I dropped the habit.

I feel that I operate much more sensibly now. Going dutch, as they say, is the most equitable option between the two dating parties as it affirms one's personal responsibility and a level playing field. That isn't to say that I don't believe in treating your significant other to no-expense on their part outing, but such actions should be rooted in your respect and affection for your mate...not his or her gender.

 

[darktipper]

I don't know why women say "who ever ask who out should pay." In reality we all know guys ask almost all of the time. The best answer is to go dutch. I think women who give more to a guy gets more from a guy. Gas is high and the movies is not cheap either lol.
A movie date late at night will cast like 30 bucks for the tickets. 8-10 bucks per person. Popcorn/food can add another like 10-20. so 50 bucks on a movie date then if you get something to eat also...... Nevermind lol. It is a catch 22 in the dating world for men sometimes. This is one of the reasons why I dont miss dating at all.

 

[anewday]

Mrs. Slocombe, I love your responses ! I like when the guy pays, yeah I'm old fashioned . I don't mind paying for things here and there. I personally love dates that don't cost a dime. One of the first dates my boyfriend and I went on was a hike . He recently forgot money on a dinner date, and I paid without thinking twice. He paid me back right away, which he didn't have to do. Now if only all dates didn't cost anything, then we could completely avoid this thread... When it comes down to it, its completely up to each couple.

 

[SneakerPimp53]

Bull. I'm not talking basic cleanser, moisturizer and toner. I'm talking about the expectation of men I've gone out with - that I look physically attractive beyond basic polish when out in public with them. Granted, I genuinely enjoy makeup, aestetics and fashion, but I also know that there is an expectation that I look a certain way when out in public, with a date in the first little while. You pay for dinner, I put in the effort and not look like a slob on the date.

So it's your personal hobby, but when you're dating it's his responsibility to pay for your personal hobby?

And I'm sorry, but waxing and shaving is an expensive habit to keep up. As much as a smooth surface is more attractive to me, I also know it's social conditioning largely determined by men. By no means am I nessecarily complaining (eyebrow waxing makes one hell of a difference for most women), but the extra waxing, body sugaring and shaving a woman does while at least, in the early or honeymoon stage of a relationship, ads up to just as much as a few steak dinners.

Most hair salons are more than willing to throw in an eyebrow wax with a normal hair cut. If you choose to use extensive body waxing that's your issue, and no one else's. Shaving isn't going to break the bank, and even with body waxing it certainly wouldn't come close to the cost of a steak dinner.

You spend X amount on the first dinner date, but I've already spent $15 on my brows, another $40 on a bikini wax,

I suppose if he's going to be seeing your bikini line on a first date at least he's getting his money's worth.

nearly $20 by the time I've bought razors and shaving cream for my under-arms and legs.

So when you're not dating someone you cease shaving your legs and pits? You know he has to buy shaving cream and razor blades for his face. Blades for men's razors are anything but cheap. It's called basic personal grooming, you can pay for it, you're a big girl.

Add all that in to the fact that the pro waxing is once a month, legs & underarms twice/week for a woman with relatively fair and fine hair - and yes, that is a sizeable amount of dough I've also spent to make my SO happy. That also, doesn't include the outfits I'm expected to don when I go meet your (male) friends at the club for the first time, the hostess gift I brought to the pre-drink because a lot of the SOs seem to forget this, and the undie set. And unless I'm going to Wal Mart, that's a sizeable amount of my disposable income I've invested to make my SO happy.

It's all about compromise. If you're going to expect me to look gorgeous all the time, you better be putting in just as much time, effort and disposable income percentage in some capacity.

Okay, and I spend $50 a month on a health club membership. Add into that at least 2 hours a day of my time. Then there's all the work out supplements you need: a good $100 a month on whey protein, $110 on Cassein protein $80 a month on pre work out nutrition, $120 a month on recovery supplements, $70 a month on a good men's multi-vitamin. For some guys a personal trainer in the mix, that's going to be 90 dollars (or more) for an hour session. Not to mention all the money that goes into eating properly.

So where's my credit for all the money that goes into maintaining my appearance? I'm wagering you don't go out with a lot of fat boys.

 

[Rose of Eden]

I was raised in the school where the man always pays. I always ask to pay for my share, though, to be polite. If he insists on paying after I ask, then I let him pay and leave it at that. (And I NEVER allow myself to feel as though I "owe" him anything in return...I mean, it's just dinner!) If a man were to ever not pay for me on a date, I really wish I could say that it wouldn't bother me. I wouldn't want it to bother me. But deep down, it kind of would. I would wonder if he really cares about me and if he's even interested. Does he think I'm not worth spending money on? But then again, it really depends. After reading a lot of these posts in this thread, I think it would all depend on why he isn't paying for me.

The only real issue I have with dates and paying is when I can clearly see that the man is being selfish and stingy. You know, the type of people who have (at least some) money and spend tons of money on themselves, but whenever they have to spend money on ANYONE ELSE, they don't want to part with a dime. If I see this in a man, it screams extreme selfishness and tells me that he values himself way above everyone else. It hurts and it turns me off! I dated a guy who blew hundreds of dollars every month on his own junk that he loved (his games, techie gadgets, CDs, movies, etc.) but then he didn't want to spend the money to come visit me for my birthday (he lived a couple hours away). I guess I wasn't "worth" it.

But like I said, for me it really depends on the "why." So I think that I would be completely okay and understanding about a man not paying if he had a good or noble reason for it (like if he couldn't afford it, or some other good reason). And if he showed that he cared in other ways. After all, money really isn't the most important thing. I've had wonderful dates where I paid for myself and even where no money was spent. Both people showing that they love and care for each other in various ways is what's really important.

So, to sum up, I think the most important thing is that both people show each other that they care.

IMHO (though I can't speak for all women!) it's the action of taking care of a lady that is important, not really how much he actually spent.

I agree!

 

[darktipper]

Okay, and I spend $50 a month on a health club membership. Add into that at least 2 hours a day of my time. Then there's all the work out supplements you need: a good $100 a month on whey protein, $110 on Cassein protein $80 a month on pre work out nutrition, $120 a month on recovery supplements, $70 a month on a good men's multi-vitamin. For some guys a personal trainer in the mix, that's going to be 90 dollars (or more) for an hour session. Not to mention all the money that goes into eating properly.

So where's my credit for all the money that goes into maintaining my appearance? I'm wagering you don't go out with a lot of fat boys.

Score! lol Nice. People don't know that body building is expensive unless you do body weight exercises. Yes it is hard work to stay in decent shape. The whole make up thing is kind of out of there. I don't fully pay attention to it.

If I go out on a date and if I pull out my money and the woman tell me no I got this date just out of the goodness of her heart, then she is a keeper(I know that she is into me and the date experience. This gives me motivation to take her out more often because I know that spending some money on her will be no problem). I know women how gave like that are in happy relationships. They are the type of women who don't expect the guy to do everything. In biblical times yeah it would be best if a guy fully provided because most of the women back then we not allowed to work/jobs too dangerous/their sons worked to provide for the mother if the father passed(Jesus did that when Joseph passed). Women did not have as many opportunities to make money like now. Also this day and age you do have women making more money than some of the men that they date and they still want him to pay up. Smh lol. If you open door for her you get dumped. If you dont pay that much for a date you get dumped. If you go dutch you will get dumped. If she pays more going semi dutch then you get dumped. If you spend tons of cash on her then she will stay but she may not be faithful. I still say it is a lose lose for a lot of men. There is no guarantee that she will stay for a while even though she is getting free meal and stuff. You almost might as well put the money in a savings account or buy a gadget to trick out your ride. Or donate to the needy

 

[Nom De Guerre]

Smh lol. If you open door for her you get dumped. If you dont pay that much for a date you get dumped. If you go dutch you will get dumped. If she pays more going semi dutch then you get dumped. If you spend tons of cash on her then she will stay but she may not be faithful. I still say it is a lose lose for a lot of men. There is no guarantee that she will stay for a while even though she is getting free meal and stuff. You almost might as well put the money in a savings account or buy a gadget to trick out your ride. Or donate to the needy

I think any reasonable guy is going to agree with you, women are pretty petty that way, and they're definitely pretty shallow at times as well (let's not bring up the whole concept of women basically being a prostitute you pay for); I've had girlfriends whom paid for everything, I kind of felt like the jerk when it was happening...

I like to pay, but if she insists (like really insists) then go ahead, be my guest lol otherwise whatever. Money comes and goes man, and really, what's a bit of money compared to makin' a girl feel special? If she actually becomes your wife, lol, then you'll see how much time, effort, and stress a woman will go through just to maintain a home/family; so c'mon man, just let it go.

They say the secret to marriage is a happy wife, "a happy life is a happy wife."

ETA:The hard part is finding one you're willing to put up with, and vice versa, once the honeymoon stage wares off...

 

[Rhye]

Threads like this always remind me of the boyfriend I had last century.

El Torito. Mexican caesar salad. The waiter asked if I wanted chicken, my boyfriend looked at me and shock his head......so I didn't add the chicken. =/

 

[Nom De Guerre]

Threads like this always remind me of the boyfriend I had last century.

El Torito. Mexican caesar salad. The waiter asked if I wanted chicken, my boyfriend looked at me and shock his head......so I didn't add the chicken. =/

What!? And he still wasn't a keeper? I'm shocked, shocked I say

 

[Rhye]

What!? And he still wasn't a keeper? I'm shocked, shocked I say

I have more stories about him.

 

[Nom De Guerre]

I have more stories about him.

I need to sleep, so you're welcome to share them here and I'll read them later or you can tell me them later G'night sweet Ethnography!

 

[Rhye]

I need to sleep, so you're welcome to share them here and I'll read them later or you can tell me them later G'night sweet Ethnography!

I'll tell you later, plus I still have to get back to your last VM message.

Goodnight, sleep well!

 

[K9_Trainer]

Eh, it doesn't really matter to me who pays for what, as long as the relationship feels equal. I don't like feeling like I'm being put on a pedestal, nor do I like feeling like I owe anybody anything.

The best advice I can give to other ladies who feel the same as me and for that reason would rather pay half or take turns paying the whole bill but find that men are stubborn and won't let them: Pay him back without him knowing it. Buy tickets in advance to a concert or game he wants to see, cook him dinner or breakfast at your house, make lunch for a picnic, buy him snacks/coffee, buy small gifts, stuff like that. Then you don't have to feel bad or like you owe him, and he can't exactly make a big deal out of paying.

Really the only time money seems to ever be an issue is on dates involving movies or dinner. Just what society focuses on I guess. But there's more to relationships than eating out and watching movies.

 

[Miles]

It's customary for the man to pay, so I generally do. That said, I also like to save money. If she insists on paying, I'm not going to stop her.

I'm surprised that some feel like those who pay for a date are "owed" anything. Even the idea of subtly finding ways to pay them back is foreign to me. It must be a cultural thing.

 

[IreneAdler]

Ok,
I was raised in the school of paying half the bill for the first few dates.
Or something similar, that pretty much balances out how much each person spent on the date.

I've heard the whole "The person who does the asking out should do the paying." thing but I still don't feel comfortable with it all the time.

There are also moments that my other female friends seem far more in tune with. Like when I started talking to this guy when we were out on the town and she excused herself to the ladies room when we walked into dunkin' because she "knew" he was going to pay for my hot cocoa. I didn't. I said thank you, but I was surprised and felt a tad uncomfortable about it.

I'm cool with guys holding doors open and being chivalrous in their behavior, but for some reason the line gets drawn for me when money is involved.

It makes me feel like they're trying to buy me or I feel like I'm using them. Is there a norm for this?

Do these situations make anybody else really uncomfortable?

EDIT: One of my friends also told me that if a guy asks you out and you don't let him pay it's emasculating. That it hurts their feelings. Is that true?

This has always been an issue for me. The guy I'm seeing now insists on paying, even if I ask. I reciprocate by making him dinner because he can't try to pay me for that . The only time I've gotten to pay for anything was when he forgot his wallet because we left in a hurry (which was fine by me since I invited him, not the other way).

Before him I was like you already said: whoever asks, pays. That seems fair to me.

 

[CocoaBean]

Eh, it doesn't really matter to me who pays for what, as long as the relationship feels equal. I don't like feeling like I'm being put on a pedestal, nor do I like feeling like I owe anybody anything.

The best advice I can give to other ladies who feel the same as me and for that reason would rather pay half or take turns paying the whole bill but find that men are stubborn and won't let them: Pay him back without him knowing it. Buy tickets in advance to a concert or game he wants to see, cook him dinner or breakfast at your house, make lunch for a picnic, buy him snacks/coffee, buy small gifts, stuff like that. Then you don't have to feel bad or like you owe him, and he can't exactly make a big deal out of paying.

Really the only time money seems to ever be an issue is on dates involving movies or dinner. Just what society focuses on I guess. But there's more to relationships than eating out and watching movies.

 

[Verve]

The only real issue I have with dates and paying is when I can clearly see that the man is being selfish and stingy. You know, the type of people who have (at least some) money and spend tons of money on themselves, but whenever they have to spend money on ANYONE ELSE, they don't want to part with a dime. If I see this in a man, it screams extreme selfishness and tells me that he values himself way above everyone else. It hurts and it turns me off! I dated a guy who blew hundreds of dollars every month on his own junk that he loved (his games, techie gadgets, CDs, movies, etc.) but then he didn't want to spend the money to come visit me for my birthday (he lived a couple hours away). I guess I wasn't "worth" it.

I've totally dated a couple of guys like that. Just because I was willing to pay my half they stopped thinking of the relationship as a priority because they had more disposable income than they would have had in a "normal relationship.

Most hair salons are more than willing to throw in an eyebrow wax with a normal hair cut. If you choose to use extensive body waxing that's your issue, and no one else's. Shaving isn't going to break the bank, and even with body waxing it certainly wouldn't come close to the cost of a steak dinner.

Where do you get your hair cut? Last I checked it was an extra $10-$12...but that's pretty much pocket change when you consider costs men have too.

I only get that done if I feel I'm losing control of the arch. IMHO a girl can keep up with most of it tweezing occasionally. I'm not very hairy though...

Okay, and I spend $50 a month on a health club membership. Add into that at least 2 hours a day of my time. Then there's all the work out supplements you need: a good $100 a month on whey protein, $110 on Cassein protein $80 a month on pre work out nutrition, $120 a month on recovery supplements, $70 a month on a good men's multi-vitamin. For some guys a personal trainer in the mix, that's going to be 90 dollars (or more) for an hour session. Not to mention all the money that goes into eating properly.

So where's my credit for all the money that goes into maintaining my appearance? I'm wagering you don't go out with a lot of fat boys.

Good points but you need to think, some of us ladies are concerned with health and fitness too.

 

[Verve]

And thank you ladies for suggestions on how to keep it even when the guy insists on paying.

It's so intimidating when a guy just jumps straight to "dinner and a movie" dates.
Maybe that just shows a lack of creativity. Makes me wonder how many girls he has taken on dinner and a movie dates before and if I'm just a space filler.

 

[Nom De Guerre]

lol, do what Chelsea did to me then. She looked at me and said, "Oh, and I do not go to movies. So make a mental note of that."

ETA: you can change your mind later-on if you really want to go see a movie, at that point we'll probably just smile and be like "okay, whatever you want babe."