Colin Kaepernick sits during National Anthem

[Ophiolite]

@Ophiolite,

Although I disagree with @Tallguy88 on occasion, I will testify to the fact that he is not a bigoted fool. He is not racist against African Americans or against any other minority. I know this because I have talked to him before about my own people, Native Americans. And flaming a staff member or other members on this site is not wise.

Thank you for your information and advice. I value your input.

Please note that I did not call Tallyguy88 a bigoted fool. I very clearly stated that it might be an option were I a citizen of the US, but I am not such and did not take up the option. Lest this be thought a cynical manipulation designed to flame, yet avoid the consequences, I shall state the following.

In my view Tallguy88's post has, for me, the strong appearance of bigotry and has for me the strong appearance of foolishness. Having observed these appearances, and believing them to be inappropriate for a member, and more so for a staff member, I felt my integrity would be damaged if I did not make comment.

My questions were designed to provide Tallguy with the opportunity to demonstrate that appearances can be deceptive.

 

[nChrist]

I respect and enjoy our country, our freedoms, and our way of life. I know that generations of veterans paid for these good things with sacrifices, blood, sweat, and tears. I have the greatest respect for our veterans and the symbols that represent them and our country. This obviously includes our flag and national anthem. I don't like folks who disrespect the symbols of our country, nor do I respect the method they have chosen to express a grievance.

 

[aieyiamfu]

The National Anthem is not merely a nationalistic display. If he considers himself a citizen, he must either show respect for the country's National Anthem, or renounce his citizenship. It is obvious he has no loyalty to the USA, so he might eventually turn out to be an enemy of the people. We don't even know if he has already been subverted.

It is much more likely someone who pays respect to some stupid song, or mindlessly recites some nationalistic mantra every morning will turn out to be an enemy of the people. The state is not the people and being patriotic to said state is no indication an individual will treat fellow humans any better, it does in fact have a strong correlation with treating them worse.

 

[aieyiamfu]

No. Actually the enemies of the United States flourish because of the freedoms they have. But their primary objective is to destroy those freedoms. Even responsible blacks recognize that Black Lives Matter is essentially subversion of law and order. And when there is no law and order, what you have is anarchy. A person who sincerely believes that the USA is oppressive should migrate to North Korea, Iran, or Saudi Arabia, and see how far he gets with his rants. To disrespect the flag or the National Anthem is to display enmity to the country to which they belong (applicable to any country).

Why do you want to be the possession of a country? Why not be free? Just because America is not the most oppressive does not mean it is not opressive. Why do statist always want people to leave if they show any evidence of thinking for themselves. Anarchy means without rulers not chaos, rulers bring more chaos than any anarchist. No anarchist has ever invaded another country, or used nuclear weapons on them, or stolen from people in the name of society, governments especially the Amerikan government engage in these types of activities.

 

[nChrist]

Just a reminder: the members of our Armed Forces serve, protect, and defend every day - with or without a war.

 

[aieyiamfu]

Just a reminder: the members of our Armed Forces serve, protect, and defend every day - with or without a war.

Really? I was in the Army for 11 years never saw any defending or protecting going on.

 

[aieyiamfu]

Taking an oath to do something should events come about to necessitate it, and actually doing that something in your job while you're working said job, are two very different things.

The last time one could even reasonably argue that soldiers have fought to defend our rights was WWII, and even then one could argue against it (Japan had no ability to invade and take us over, all they could do was a surprise attack on our naval forces and then a war of attrition in islands in the middle of the Pacific; Germany didn't even have the capability of crossing the English Channel with enough force to take over England, they sure as heck weren't going to be able to cross the Atlantic and take us over and subvert our rights, and until they were forced by treaty obligations in our attack on Japan, they were interested pretty much entirely on their campaign into the USSR - and then of course there's the fact that FDR essentially set up policies that pretty much dared and near-openly demanded Japan attack us)

I have always thought the war of 1812 was the.last time the military did any protecting.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

People paid attention to Ms.Douglas's behavior. I looked it up. It wasn't posted here apparently but it did gain attention in the Internet press coverage at least.
Standing at attention is still showing respect.

Yes, they criticized her, calling her unpatriotic among other things, even though, as you say, she was showing respect. Others who did the same thing, stood at attention, were not criticized.

 

[zephyrWiccan]

Just a reminder: the members of our Armed Forces serve, protect, and defend every day - with or without a war.

Just a reminder, no, they don't.

 

[aieyiamfu]

Yeah, he should be happy that he is more privileged and ignore those who are not as lucky! Makes perfect sense! It's like when someone asks me for food on the street, I say how happy that I am able to eat a meal everyday when I want and then I walk on my merry way.

Why not, if your life is comfortable you should despise those who are not, it's the American way.

 

[aieyiamfu]

He said his group was oppressed. He clearly is not, though.

Being famous or affluent is not a bar to oppression.

 

[aieyiamfu]

I find it disturbing that so many in this thread have no concept of what freedom and liberty mean. Basically many in this thread feel you are free to believe what they believe or else you should leave the country?

By that logic, everyone white and black involved in the Civil Rights movement and protests weren't real Americans but instead ungrateful traitors that should have just left the country and gone somewhere else?

If you understand freedom and liberty and have read the Declaration if Independence, Federalist Papers and Constitution then you will support Kapaernicks choice and right.

Innocent unarmed civilians are beaten and or killed every year by police and when the dust settles the officers are usually exonerated because police procedure is so ridiculously one-sided in granting police near unlimited power in doing their jobs.

It takes a lot of courage to take a public stand, to go against the norm, and I applaude him for it. Decent and protesting and free speech is suppose to be at the core of being an American. ..but apparently we have forgotten all that and our history. ..

Awesome post.

 

[777Sloan]

.

 

[nChrist]

Really? I was in the Army for 11 years never saw any defending or protecting going on.

Duh? Was our homeland attacked by any foreign power during your 11 years of service? This is without mentioning our allies. Peace does require strength and effort.

 

[aieyiamfu]

How dare anyone, let alone a minority, ever question America or challenge American exceptionalism!

How dare anyone, let alone a minority, living in America not be patriotic for this country!

Never mind the fact that it is a country born out of genocide and slavery. Never mind the fact that it is a country that was originally founded on racism and white supremacy which only benefited white people, the White Anglo Saxon Protestant male in particular. Never mind the fact that minorities have consistently dealt with oppression and discrimination in this country since before its inception and they still have to fight against racism and discrimination today. I know... "Get over it and stop living in the past!"

Sadly it is not in the past.

 

[aieyiamfu]

Duh? Was our homeland attacked by any foreign power during your 11 years of service? This is without mentioning our allies. Peace does require strength and effort.

Peace requires staying out of other nations affairs unless the people (not the state) of that country request our assistance.

 

[aieyiamfu]

I know Tallguy will not be surprised by my response. He knows exactly how I feel about the American flag and the country it represents. But for the record, I would advise those who read my response to not waste their time telling me about the natives who serve and have served in the United States military. They will not like my answers.

And with said and out of the way....

I fully support Colin Kaepernick and his choice to not stand because of what he believes in. I am in solidarity with him. I do not stand for the anthem or for the pledge of allegiance either. I will not pledge my allegiance to a country that was born out of the blood and bones of my ancestors and out of the enslavement of African slaves.

I bet I would enjoy your answers.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Just a reminder, no, they don't.

Ask someone in military uniform next time you see them if they do.

 

[aieyiamfu]

Did he say he was oppressed? It's like people don't read anymore.

Anything more than a few sentences seems to strain the average American attention stand, opinions are formed without any meaningful information.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Well expressed. Respect for the Armed Forces be as refreshing as it rare.

True.When I see uniformed military and even police , I thank them for their service.

The way of the country now is to renounce the effectiveness of military and police. Law and order.
And then fan the flames of cultural divides to white hot temperatures.
While seeking legal means to make public all manner of depravity under the cloak of it being a civil right.