Colin Kaepernick sits during National Anthem

[Tallguy88]

Guy protests about oppression and people's first reaction is to dismiss any claims of oppression and then immediately tell him to fall back in line, shut up and play your game or 'git out ma country!'

I neither dismissed the supposed oppression nor told him to leave the country. I just scorned him for his shameful behavior during the national anthem.

Ultimately, all he did was hurt himself and his brand. Do you think football fans are going to be buying his shirts and stuff now? Do you think 49ers fans will be pressuring the team to sign him to a contract extension?

 

[Tallguy88]

Here's what a black Army Ranger vet has to say about this situation. I agree wholeheartedly:

"I understand Kaepernick's intention, however I disagree with his means. His NBA counterparts protested the same ideas in a way that neither hurt the country, nor ignored the ideals that people of color have fought and died which; ideals represented by the symbolism of the American Flag and words of the National Anthem.



As a member of a national organization, reaping the benefits of a country that apparently oppresses people who look like him, his argument is thin on a personal level.

Doing what Dwayne Wade and company did at a game opener to support BLM, or making a public verbal statement as Carmelo Anthony did, or even a written statement as Michael Jordan did are all more appropriate acts of protest.

He could write his congressman, he could petition, he could picket, he could join the service and actually fight for the rights he seems to think are not offered to him; his sitting through the National Anthem was a lazy lack of will and brain power.

To refuse to stand for the National Anthem is his right as an American, and I support that right, however I do not agree with that action.



There are a myriad of other ways to conduct social protest for people of color, that don't, whether by intent or otherwise, ignore the American principles that have given rise to extreme integration within a single American generation.

My father was born without the right to vote and in one generation I've been blessed to lead amongst the world's greatest fighting force.

To disrespect the country that has afforded him the opportunities and fortunes he acquired is only made more offensive by the fact that his life is the personification of the ideals I see in the American flag and National Anthem: a biracial child, raised by white parents, and who has accomplished much despite his "oppression." In how many more nations around the world can a story like that come to fruition?



He made valid points, I'm not ignoring that there are still issues with race in America. However, he is ignoring the positive ideals of America that every colored person who has ever served, fought--while some died--for, by refusing to stand. Proper action is exactly that, action, not the inaction of not standing because he couldn't think of a better way to protest."

http://ijr.com/2016/08/681907-army-...doing-instead-of-sitting-out-natl-anthem/amp/

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Whenever I hear the "love it or leave it" trope, my first reaction is to just turn it around on them. "You don't like the new America? Then you can just leave."

Of course, I don't actually mean it because I would never tell a fellow American he had to accept the country as is or find a new home. That is what a bad American would do, IMO.

Yes, I have encountered those "love it or leave it" type of Americans before.

You had better watch out for some of them if they think you are disrespecting their beloved America in any way, shape or form.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

The two American medalists in the shot put also did not put their hand over their hearts, but instead stood at attention. I wonder why they got a pass and Gabby Douglas did not.

People paid attention to Ms.Douglas's behavior. I looked it up. It wasn't posted here apparently but it did gain attention in the Internet press coverage at least.
Standing at attention is still showing respect.

 

[Tallguy88]

Eagles' Malcolm Jenkins supports Colin Kaepernick, but not the chosen gesture

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Eagles' Malcolm Jenkins supports Colin Kaepernick, but not the chosen gesture

But he also said,

"It's a tough situation, but at the same time, if you've got something that you're passionate about and that's your way of expressing it, you've got all the right to do it. I'm a guy of conviction, I speak out on things I see, so I can't really look at what he's doing and tell him he's wrong."

 

[Tallguy88]

But he also said,

"It's a tough situation, but at the same time, if you've got something that you're passionate about and that's your way of expressing it, you've got all the right to do it. I'm a guy of conviction, I speak out on things I see, so I can't really look at what he's doing and tell him he's wrong."

But he did point out that his way of protesting was wrong. Which is the main thing I've been ssying.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Here's what a black Army Ranger vet has to say about this situation. I agree wholeheartedly:

"I understand Kaepernick's intention, however I disagree with his means. His NBA counterparts protested the same ideas in a way that neither hurt the country, nor ignored the ideals that people of color have fought and died which; ideals represented by the symbolism of the American Flag and words of the National Anthem.



As a member of a national organization, reaping the benefits of a country that apparently oppresses people who look like him, his argument is thin on a personal level.

Doing what Dwayne Wade and company did at a game opener to support BLM, or making a public verbal statement as Carmelo Anthony did, or even a written statement as Michael Jordan did are all more appropriate acts of protest.

He could write his congressman, he could petition, he could picket, he could join the service and actually fight for the rights he seems to think are not offered to him; his sitting through the National Anthem was a lazy lack of will and brain power.

To refuse to stand for the National Anthem is his right as an American, and I support that right, however I do not agree with that action.



There are a myriad of other ways to conduct social protest for people of color, that don't, whether by intent or otherwise, ignore the American principles that have given rise to extreme integration within a single American generation.

My father was born without the right to vote and in one generation I've been blessed to lead amongst the world's greatest fighting force.

To disrespect the country that has afforded him the opportunities and fortunes he acquired is only made more offensive by the fact that his life is the personification of the ideals I see in the American flag and National Anthem: a biracial child, raised by white parents, and who has accomplished much despite his "oppression." In how many more nations around the world can a story like that come to fruition?



He made valid points, I'm not ignoring that there are still issues with race in America. However, he is ignoring the positive ideals of America that every colored person who has ever served, fought--while some died--for, by refusing to stand. Proper action is exactly that, action, not the inaction of not standing because he couldn't think of a better way to protest."

http://ijr.com/2016/08/681907-army-...doing-instead-of-sitting-out-natl-anthem/amp/

That's something the separatists in the issue don't want to recall. Or write about. It doesn't fit the segregationist rhetoric that intends to divide the country over race rather than unite it so as to be an inclusive society without victim blaming. And victim claiming.

Groups are coming out now intending to conjure in American nomenclature a divisive hate language that puts everyone firmly behind a wall generated by implied correct behaviors or the opposition. Only the laws of the land are fast becoming textualized in their own way. Change your mind or else! "Else" encompasses a rather broad territory of adjectives and nouns.

 

[zephyrWiccan]

Here's what a black Army Ranger vet has to say about this situation. I agree wholeheartedly:

"I understand Kaepernick's intention, however I disagree with his means. His NBA counterparts protested the same ideas in a way that neither hurt the country,

How in the heck does some football playersitting during the national anthem "hurt the country"?

And what kind of weak-butt country is harmed by a man exercising his freedoms (which the country is supposed to stand for and be known for, but as we see here when any real freedom is exercised, the 'country' gets butthurt and doesn't like it)

nor ignored the ideals that people of color have fought and died which; ideals represented by the symbolism of the American Flag and words of the National Anthem.

And here we see someone (sadly) who is brainwashed into nationalistic fervor and rituals.

There are a myriad of other ways to conduct social protest for people of color, that don't, whether by intent or otherwise, ignore the American principles that have given rise to extreme integration within a single American generation.

American principles? you mean like freedom of expression? Like, sitting down when everyone else stands up? Those sorts of principles? Sounds like the opposite of ignoring American principles.

He could write his congressman, he could petition, he could picket, he could join the service and actually fight for the rights he seems to think are not offered to him

And here is another indicator of nationalistic and militaristic brainwashing of the writer of this little piece. being in the "service" does not make you some magical defender or fighter for rights. For the most part, all you are is a pawn for the military industrial complex and their politician cronies. It's been many decades since soldiers in the US have fought to defend any actual rights of citizens in this country.


The last time one could even reasonably argue that soldiers have fought to defend our rights was WWII, and even then one could argue against it (Japan had no ability to invade and take us over, all they could do was a surprise attack on our naval forces and then a war of attrition in islands in the middle of the Pacific; Germany didn't even have the capability of crossing the English Channel with enough force to take over England, they sure as heck weren't going to be able to cross the Atlantic and take us over and subvert our rights, and until they were forced by treaty obligations in our attack on Japan, they were interested pretty much entirely on their campaign into the USSR - and then of course there's the fact that FDR essentially set up policies that pretty much dared and near-openly demanded Japan attack us)

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

^It's like the same only different. Does more than one repeating the same thing make a false thing true?

 

[Shiloh Raven]

But he did point out that his way of protesting was wrong. Which is the main thing I've been saying.

Actually he said, "If you want change and you want things to get better across the country, there's different ways to go about it." (emphasis mine). But then he said, "It's a tough situation, but at the same time, if you've got something that you're passionate about and that's your way of expressing it, you've got all the right to do it. I'm a guy of conviction, I speak out on things I see, so I can't really look at what he's doing and tell him he's wrong." (emphasis mine)

Jenkins said he prefers working in the community and "talking to the people who can make some change." As an example, Jenkins was among a small group of players who recently met with Philadelphia police commissioner Richard Ross Jr. to discuss ways they could help improve relations between local communities and the police. While his approach is different, Jenkins believes that "if you've got something on your heart and that's your way of expressing it, then to each his own." (emphasis mine)

 

[zephyrWiccan]

But he did point out that his way of protesting was wrong. Which is the main thing I've been ssying.

Actually, he literally SAID that he can't tell him he's wrong. Right in your own article. So no, he did not point such a thing out, and LITERALLY said the EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

[Tallguy88]

Actually, he literally SAID that he can't tell him he's wrong. Right in your own article. So no, he did not point such a thing out, and LITERALLY said the EXACT OPPOSITE.

He said it hurt the cause

 

[Shiloh Raven]

He said it hurt the cause

But he did not say that Kaepernick's approach is wrong. He also said he understands where Kaepernick is coming from.

"We're all faced with opportunities. For myself, we stand there and we stand for the national anthem, and sometimes those thoughts go through your mind, like, 'Do I want to actually acknowledge this?' Because you might be upset about what's going on."

 

[zephyrWiccan]

He said it hurt the cause

Goalpost shift much?

 

[Ophiolite]

It's his right to not stand. It's my right to ridicule him for it.

I imagine it would be my right to call you a bigoted fool, were I citizen of the US. Since I am not I shall instead ask a couple of questions. You will help me understand your position if you can answer these as clearly as possible.

1. Do you believe that black persons in America should be treated equally in all respects as their white brothers and sisters?
2. Do you think they are?
3. If there is inequality in the treatment of blacks do you think it is appropriate for those with the ear of the media to draw attention to this inequality?
4. Do you think symbolic gestures are more important than human rights?
5. If so, why?

 

[Shiloh Raven]

@Ophiolite,

Although I disagree with @Tallguy88 on occasion, I will testify to the fact that he is not a bigoted fool. He is not racist against African Americans or against any other minority. I know this because I have talked to him before about my own people, Native Americans. And flaming a staff member or other members on this site is not wise.

 

[aieyiamfu]

The country is more than the state. If the government ceased existing, there would still be America. What are the French on now? The Fifth Republic? Each new government isn't a new France.

I hope we don't have America if the government ceases to exist, then we will just have another crappy government like France.

 

[aieyiamfu]

I grew up in the 50-60s, in an original colony state. We were always very patriotic and Memorial Day was a big deal.
In school, hand over heart for the pledge, but not for the National Anthem. For that you stood at attention, looking at the flag. From all the research that I have done, hand over heart for the Anthem did not start at all until around 1976 and became expected after 9/11. I still don't do that, but it does not mean that I don't respect my country. The Anthem is not a vow, the pledge is.

They are both mindless indoctrination into this Amerikan system.

 

[aieyiamfu]

One would hope that with the right to vote any "uprising" would be the peaceful ballot box.

Electing new masters may give an illusion of freedom but it is nothing. But my point was not that we need an uprising but that the military does not in any way defend the constitution.