Can Christians go to hell?

[FreeGrace2]

As for being worthy so as to be forgiven:

Jesus says,

28 "... A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him."

(Matthew 21:28-32)....

Nothing said here changes the fact that forgiveness of sin is NEVER based on being worthy.

Again, such ideas only demonstrate a horrible failure to understand what grace is and means.

 

[Marvin Knox]

As I see it - there are two versions of the gospel being preached here. With a few small variances as to wording – they are as follows.

1. The law (both the one written on the hearts of every man in the form of conscience and the one written particularly for the Jews) has been shown unequivocally to not be able to make any man perfect –which is the requirement to live at peace eternally with an altogether holy God.

Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law and then laid down His life as a substitutionary sacrifice to cover the sins of all those who would trust in Him for their salvation.

Those who trust in Him are made new creations and part of the body of Christ.

They are immediately translated from the kingdom of darkness to the Kingdom of God.. They are placed (spiritually only in this age) on the throne where they rule with Christ in the Kingdom of God in this present age according to their faith.

They are given the Holy Spirit of God upon belief as a seal and a pledge that they will never again come into condemnation. A process of change is begun by God’s Spirit to change the person’s life in relation to the world and the sin in it. The cooperation of the believer plays a part in the amount of change and their overcoming sin that will be done in their life.

Every deed and word done by believers will be judged by God when they stand before Him at the Judgment Seat of Christ. The way that that loss and gain will be assessed is not totally specified in the scriptures except that believers are assured that it will be fair and just and that the consequences of sin in this life will be dire.

The consequences of the sins of God's children do and will effect our Lord Jesus Christ who bears the unbridled wrath of God for all of the sins of the world as well as effecting the particular child of God himself in various ways.

Believers are assured in this that they will never again face the full and unbridled wrath of God because of the finished work of Jesus Christ on their behalf.

Once sealed, believers will for all eternity be God's beloved children and never will they come under His wrath.

God's discipline will always be adjudicated as a loving Father would do with a much beloved love son.

Truly born again believers serve God and yield to the sanctification process mostly from love and gratitude for their eternal salvation and partly from the realization of the dire consequences of any unrepentant sin that will be experienced in this life, in the Kingdom age and very likely eternally in some way we cannot at this time fully understand.

2. The law (both the one written on the hearts of every man in the form of conscience and the one written particularly for the Jews) has been shown to not be able to make any man perfect without his due diligence in yielding to God's Spirit –which is the requirement to live at peace eternally with an altogether holy God.

Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law and then laid down His life as a sacrifice to cover the repented of prior sins of those who would trust in Him for their salvation at that point in time.

Those who trust in Him are made new creations and part of the body of Christ. They are immediately translated from the kingdom of darkness to the Kingdom of God.. They are placed (spiritually only in this age) on the throne where they rule with Christ in the Kingdom of God in this present age according to their faith.

Those said positions are only temporary and always dependent on the cooperation of the recipient.

Believers are given the Holy Spirit of God upon their initial belief as a provisional pledge that they may stay in those exalted positions with Christ dependent upon their words and actions in this life.

A process of change is begun by God’s Spirit to change the person’s life in relation to the world and the sin in it. The cooperation of the believer plays a part in the amount of change and the overcoming of sin that will be accomplished in their life.

Any blatant and unrepented of sins in this life that are found after examining the former believer's life will immediately remove the former true believer from the positions in Christ that were granted upon their initial belief.

In reality that false believer would have forfeited those positions and rights sometime before death itself- although he may well have thought that he was still a believer when he died.

Every unrepented of word and deed done by believers in this life will be judged by God when they stand before Him at the Judgment Seat of Christ. The consequence of any such sins found at that time will mean immediate condemnation and casting into outer darkness for eternity.

Every such sin of the outcast former believer will incur the full and unmitigated wrath of God the same as for anyone who rejected Christ all of his life.

For a person who trusted Christ for his salvation to not suffer eternal death because of any unrepented of sin would show God to be unjust in that He will visit that eternal condemnation of others who did not believe in this present life. To show grace to some and not to all would be immoral of God.

For God to be viewed as having visited His wrath vicariously on Jesus Christ on behalf of believers who are found lacking when examined upon their death is to be seen as undermining the idea of the purity and morality of God and therefore is considered heretical and a condoning of sin.

Believers serve God and yield to the sanctification process In this age out of fear of the full and unbridled wrath of God that awaits them if they do not yield to His Spirit.

Again – there may be a few variances that could be expressed here and there as to how everything works in each of the gospel messages. But generally these are the choices before us here on this thread.

Each person must make up his or her mind as to which is the gospel and which is not.

I don't believe that the Lord requires His children to understand perfectly every doctrine - including this vital and basic doctrine. But I do believe that the two expressions of the gospel message spelled out here stand in such stark contrast one from the other that the choice made may very well decide eternity for those weighing that difference.

P.S.

I have started a new thread using this particular post as the OP. It is entitled "Which of these two gospels is most correct?"

It should cut right to the heart of the matter - that is if people are honest as to their beliefs.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As for Hebrews 9:26, Hebrews 10:1-2, Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14:

Well, it is true that Christ died for the sins of the majority of the world (except for those who worship the beast - See Revelation 13:8). However, we have to also realize that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us of sin (in real time) if we walk in the light as He is in the light (by faith) (See 1 John 1:7). Furthermore, if all sin was truly forgiven for the believer, then why does sin still exist for the believer whereby they need to confess of it? (See 1 John 1:9).

In addition, it is also true that the believer today no longer has to offer animal sacrifices like the Old Testament saint anymore on a yearly basis for the same past sins that they already committed. For animal sacrifices in the OT were only a temporary atonenement and they had to keep revisiting the same past sins again and again so as to atone for them. This is not the case for the NT saint, who relies on Christ's sacrifice. For Christ's sacrifice takes away sin for the majority of the world once for all time so as to offer man the free gift of salvation by faith (which is a gift that is received, maintained and guarded over the rest of their lives).

Also, if one were to continue to keep reading past verse 14 in Hebrews 10, they would encounter verses 26-29. This lets us know that Christ's sacrifice is not a covering of future sin for the believer because it says,

26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
(Hebrews 10:26-29).​

Are folks here paying attention? The passage says,
IF WE WILLFULLY SIN after having received the knowledge of the truth, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SIN."
And verse 27 compares disobedience in the Old Covenant with verse 29 of disobedience in the New Covenant (and it tells us the punishment is even greater in the New).


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[Bible Highlighter]

As for some here who hold to the belief that the saint cannot keep God's perfect moral standards:

Well, Jesus says, be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48).
The Father is perfect because He is sinless and holy in conduct.
If it was not possible to be perfect, then Jesus would have never told us to be perfect.
Jesus also told two people to sin no more (John 5:14) (John 8:11); In fact, he even told one of them that if they were to sin again, that a worse thing would come upon them (John 5:14).
1 Peter 4:1 says they that have suffered in the flesh have ceased (stopped) from sin.
Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts.
In Matthew 19:21, Jesus says if you want to be perfect, sell all your possessions and come follow after Him.
James says, "If any man offend not in word, the same isa perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body." (James 3:2).
Revelation 14:3-5 says that the 144,000 are found without fault before the throne of God.​

As for those who believe that no sin can separate them from God after having believed on Jesus:

Well, Jesus says in Matthew 5:28-30 that if one looks upon a woman in lust their whole body could be cast into hell fire. Jesus says if we do not forgive others, the Father will not forgive us (Matthew 6:15). Jesus says by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned (Matthew 12:36-37). The apostle John says in 1 John 3:15 that if we hate our brother we are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. The apostle John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). In the parable of the Ten Virgins, the foolish virgins (i.e. believers) did not have enough oil in their lamps so as to have "light" so as to get to the wedding on time (i.e. our Marriage to Christ) (Matthew 25:1-13). The "Light" that we are to shine is defined as good works in the Bible. For Matthew 5:16 says, "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."​

As for those here who believe that the flesh of the saint will always be filthy their entire lives:

Actually, the Bible says,

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Corinthians 7:1).

As for 1 Corinthians 15:53 that talks about how this corruptible body must put on an incorruptible one. The NASB helps to clarify what it means by "corruptible."

New American Standard Bible
For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

King James Bible
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.​

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[Bible Highlighter]

As for John 20:31 and believing on Jesus to have eternal life:

Well, this is more than just a belief alone on the person of Jesus and His finished work.
This would also include believing on everything Jesus taught, said, and commanded us to do, too.
In other words, if one ignores the commands of Jesus and or the Commands in the New Testament, then they are following another Jesus.
For Jesus considers obedience in line with being His Lord.
For Jesus says, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46).
Jesus considers us loving Him with obeying Him.
If you love me, keep my Commandments (John 14:15).
Jesus considers if you are his friend, you will keep His Commandments (John 15:14).
1 John 2:3 says we can have an assurance in knowing the LORD if we find that we are keeping His Commandments.
However, 1 John 2:4 says that he that says he knows Him and do not keep His Commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.


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[Bible Highlighter]

As for the question that was asked: "Why do you think Christ died for sins, if sins will keep one out of Heaven?"

Christ died for the sins of the majority of the world (except those in Revelation 13:8), but that does not mean everyone is forgiven, though. Proper faith in the LORD is the access key to Christ (Who is the source of our eternal life). Christ can only redeem sins (in real time) personally for an individual if they are truly remorseful over their sin. Hence, the difference between the believer and the unbeliever. If one does not have a Godly sorrow over their sin (whereby they will confess and forsake it), then there is no real repentance (See 2 Corinthians 7:10) (Also see Matthew 12:41, cf. Jonah 3:6-10) (Also see Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 1:7). For the unbeliever is not sorry over their sin; And the true believer is genuinely sorry or remorseful over their sin (Whereby they truly love the LORD, not by having a mere mental ascent alone (with nothing in their life to show for it, but they love the LORD in deed and in truth).


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[steephenkarar]

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
II Corinthians 13:5 NKJV

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As for those who suggest that James 2:18 teaches that James is talking about being justified before men only:

Well, this is not true. For James says,

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?”‭‭ (James 2:21).

Yet, in Genesis 22, we learn that nobody who was an unbeliever was present. In fact, even Abraham's servants were not present when he was offering his son Isaac.​

As for those who believe Matthew 7 is talking about a condemnation of being justified by works:

Well, they first need to show which verse or verses clearly do so. Second, on the contrary, Jesus said that the believer's response on that they did works was not a condemnation of works. Jesus's response to their doing works was that they worked iniquity (See Matthew 7:23). Iniquity is intense sin. Jesus is not condemning anyone here for believing that God does the good work in us and that we have to be loyal to our Lord.​

As for the small minority of those folks who think that Matthew 7 is not specifically condemning (or talking about) believers:

Jesus says,

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”‭ (Matthew 7:22).

Do the words of these people that Jesus quotes sound like unbelievers?
Surely not.​

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[steephenkarar]

For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Galatians 6:8 NKJV

 

[EmSw]

For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Galatians 6:8 NKJV

Sadly, we have those who believe you can sow to the flesh and still reap everlasting life.

 

[Marvin Knox]

For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Galatians 6:8 NKJV

Sadly, we have those who believe you can sow to the flesh and still reap everlasting life.

The unique thing about me as a new creation in Christ is that I have two natures.

I have an old nature (the flesh). I have a new nature (the spirit).

I can sow to either nature or both natures at different times in my life since accepting Christ.

Obviously to sow to the spirit is to be preferred.

What I sow to the flesh will, in the end, be burned and destroyed like so much wood hay and stubble.

What I sow to the spirit will remain and well up in me to everlasting life.

This is basic Christianity stuff.

Actually it's basic systematic theology stuff.

Trouble is that you do not believe in systematic theology. You believe in picking and choosing what scriptures you will include in your theology.

I believe in including them all in a balanced theology.

My comparing scripture with scripture ends in the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Yours ends in another gospel - which in reality is not a gospel at all.

 

[EmSw]

The unique thing about me as a new creation in Christ is that I have two natures.

I have an old nature (the flesh). I have a new nature (the spirit).

I can sow to either nature or both natures at different times in my life since accepting Christ.

Obviously to sow to the spirit is to be preferred.

What I sow to the flesh will, in the end, be burned and destroyed like so much wood hay and stubble.

What I sow to the spirit will remain and well up in me to everlasting life.

This is basic Christianity stuff.

Actually it's basic systematic theology stuff.

Trouble is that you do not believe in systematic theology. You believe in picking and choosing what scriptures you will include in your theology.

I believe in including them all in a balanced theology.

My comparing scripture with scripture ends in the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Yours ends in another gospel - which in reality is not a gospel at all.

I am really surprised you admit to serving the old man, Marvin. I guess Paul's words have no meaning to you.

Romans 6:6
knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

Was your old man crucified with Him, or are you still serving it? Doesn't Paul say that the body of sin might be done away with? Why is it you still admit to be a slave to sin?

Do you not know that sowing to the flesh is corruption and not everlasting life? Your gospel doesn't know what to believe. And my friend, you don't compare scripture with scripture. Your exclusion of Romans 6:6 shows us that. Your balanced theology is teetering on its edge.

One more verse you have apparently dismissed -

Ephesians 4:22
that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,

You are to put off your former behavior, the old man, Marvin. You don't know who to serve, the old man or new man. Serving the old man, shows you haven't escaped corruption, which is what people will reap if they sow to it.

 

[steephenkarar]

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:16‭-‬21 NKJV

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Galatians 5:24
“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
‭‭
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[sdowney717]

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:16‭-‬21 NKJV

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

There exists a born again from above, born of God spirit in a new creation in Christ Jesus, and that spirit has eternal life, is made according to God's will in holiness and righteousness and cannot be corrupted by sin or Satan,

1 John 5:18
[ Knowing the True—Rejecting the False ] We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

If you are His, then you are being led by the Spirit.

Philippians 2:12-14New King James Version (NKJV)
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

14 Do all things without complaining and disputing,

verse 13, should create some awesome fear and trembling about how you walk out your life in this body. Since all men will give an account to God for the deeds done in the body, and your decisions do have consequences also in this life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

As for Hebrews 9:26, Hebrews 10:1-2, Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14:

Well, it is true that Christ died for the sins of the majority of the world (except for those who worship the beast - See Revelation 13:8).

No. Jesus Christ die for all. Heb 2:9 and 2 Cor 5:14 and 15. There are no exceptions noted in Scripture. How would come to the conclusion that Rev 13:8 teaches that Christ didn't die for those who worship the beast.

 

[FreeGrace2]

As for John 20:31 and believing on Jesus to have eternal life:

Well, this is more than just a belief alone on the person of Jesus and His finished work.
This would also include believing on everything Jesus taught, said, and commanded us to do, too.

Seems most, if not all, of your theology is based on opinions that are NOT found in the Word of God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

As for the question that was asked: "Why do you think Christ died for sins, if sins will keep one out of Heaven?"

Christ died for the sins of the majority of the world (except those in Revelation 13:8), but that does not mean everyone is forgiven, though. Proper faith in the LORD is the access key to Christ (Who is the source of our eternal life). Christ can only redeem sins (in real time) personally for an individual if they are truly remorseful over their sin. Hence, the difference between the believer and the unbeliever. If one does not have a Godly sorrow over their sin (whereby they will confess and forsake it), then there is no real repentance (See 2 Corinthians 7:10) (Also see Matthew 12:41, cf. Jonah 3:6-10) (Also see Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 1:7). For the unbeliever is not sorry over their sin; And the true believer is genuinely sorry or remorseful over their sin (Whereby they truly love the LORD, not by having a mere mental ascent alone (with nothing in their life to show for it, but they love the LORD in deed and in truth)....

So then, one must believe AND feel remorseful for their sins?

Please support this from Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

As for those who suggest that James 2:18 teaches that James is talking about being justified before men only:

Well, this is not true. For James says,

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?”‭‭ (James 2:21).

Yet, in Genesis 22, we learn that nobody who was an unbeliever was present. In fact, even Abraham's servants were not present when he was offering his son Isaac.​

Please prove that James 2:21 refers to justification in God's eyes only.

And then please prove that Gen 22 wasn't meant for anyone else to read. Duh.​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

There exists a born again from above, born of God spirit in a new creation in Christ Jesus, and that spirit has eternal life, is made according to God's will in holiness and righteousness and cannot be corrupted by sin or Satan,

1 John 5:18
[ Knowing the True—Rejecting the False ] We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

If you are His, then you are being led by the Spirit.

Philippians 2:12-14New King James Version (NKJV)
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

14 Do all things without complaining and disputing,

verse 13, should create some awesome fear and trembling about how you walk out your life in this body. Since all men will give an account to God for the deeds done in the body, and your decisions do have consequences also in this life.

Let's just take the first verse shall we?

1 John 3:9 is in context to 1 John 3:10 and 1 John 3:15.

1 John 3:10 says he that does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God.

1 John 3:15 says he that hates his brother is a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding within them.


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