FreeGrace2,
You and I have been round and round this topic a few times over the years. We should not have to do it again, but for the sake of others who read this thread, I'll present the exegesis one more time.
You cite John 10:28 in isolation from the rest of John’s Gospel.
Absolutely not true. Jesus taught in John 5:24 WHEN one HAS eternal life; when they believe. That's when they have it. So when Jesus says in 10:28 that "I give THEM eternal life", He means those who have believed. And the promise for those He gives eternal life is that they WILL NEVER PERISH.
That is a direct promise of eternal security. There's no other way to slice it.
It is true that ‘I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand…. no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand’ (emphasis added).
Which makes this a promise of eternal security, and in total harmony with Paul's teaching that eternal life is a gift of God from Rom 6:23 and that the gifts of God are irrevocable in Rom 11:29. Therefore, eternal life is irrevocable.
BUT this is what can happen. Take a read of John 15:6. This is in the context of being in the vine – God’s vine – and Jesus being the true vine and God the Father being the vinedresser (John 15:1). This is what John 15:6 states, ‘If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned’ (
ESV).
First, this is a farming metaphor. If your view were correct, then Jesus was teaching that we have the power or ability to separate ourselves from the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1;13,14, 4:30). But we don't. No where in Scripture do we read that we can get rid of the indwelling Holy Spirit, or break that seal. Only assumption can lead to such a conclusion.
Second, the issue of "abiding" is not about relationship, which your view demands. But rather, it is about fellowship, which it seems your view has no place for. Yet we find the word "fellowship" 14 times in the NT of the KJV. It is very important. So important, that Jesus gave a parable on the subject; the prodigal son. Throughout the parable, the son always remained the son, even when he decided to demote himself to 'servant' and the father always remained the father.
What "died" in that parable was fellowship, not relationship.
The gracious power of God is comprehensively sufficient to protect every born-again Christian believer forever and ever amen. But a believer can in the end be lost, because salvation is conditional.
It's conditioned on an act of faith, not a life-long continuation of faith. Just consider all the passages where believers are encouraged and commanded to stay "in the faith". In NONE of those passages do we find any warning that if we don't, we'll lose salvation.
None of our enemies will be able to snatch us out of the Father’s/Jesus’ hands.
Actually, what Jesus said goes much farther than just enemies. His use of "no one" really means "no person". And I'm sure all believers do consider themselves persons. So Jesus was actually teaching that even believers cannot remove themselves out of the Father's hand.
BUT … BUT, any Christians can turn from Jesus, enter into disbelief, commit apostasy and perish by wilful acts of their own. That’s what John 15:6 teaches.
There are NO verses that teach that apostasy will result in loss of salvation.
Therefore, John 10:28-29 is not an absolute that guarantees once-saved-always-saved.
Yes it is. For the reasons just noted.
Eternal life is granted to those who continue to believe.
Are you aware of the verses that use the aorist tense for 'believe' in relation to being saved? Paul used the aorist tense in Acts 16:31 and in Rom 10:9.
And Jesus used the aorist tense in Luke 8:12 in reference to the first soil in the phrase "lest they believe and be saved".
Yet, in the very next verse, He used the present tense of 'believe' but added "for a while". How would one explain that?
Here's the bottom line: if your claim were correct, Jesus would have switched tenses; He would have used the present tense in v.12 and the aorist tense in v.13.
Thus, eternal life only continues as long as a person continues to believe.
Nope. The aorist tense refutes that claim.
And eternal life is a gift of God, and the gifts of God are irrevocable.
He or she can commit apostasy by not continuing to believe in Christ for eternal life and repudiating belief in Jesus.
No argument.
I know people for whom this has happened and is continuing to happen – apostasy – and they were once vibrant Christians.
Yes. Charles Templeton, the mentor of a young Billy Graham just entering the ministry was one.
