Boy killed for dressing like a girl.

[SolomonVII]

What ever happened to the good ol' fist fight to solve male dominance issues at school? I mean seriously- why not just deck a kid who keeps asking you to be his valentine? I don't think violence is a great solution, but there's some hard wired genetics which make a fist fight exactly what settles issues of pecking order.

It is no longer politically correct for boys to be boys. Society has become feminized. Masculine values are no longer accepted as being valid.
Violence was never a great solution, but when it was at least disapprovingly accepted without ever being officially condoned, there was always at least an unwritten code respected by all the parties involved.
I

don't think video games, etc. are much to blame. I think it's a complicated set of issues--however one which is at the top of my suspected list is actually the elimination from acceptable some more minor forms of violence as problem solving, particularly for boys.

Without valid role models of what masculine behavior really is, if video games are the only role models a boy has of masculine behavior, they may have some effect.
But, agreed, I doubt that they are ever more than a minor factor.

There's this weird sissification of boys going on and I think that leaves boys very confused and frustrated with the range of emotion which is acceptable to express.

The idea that gender is unimportant is a product of radical feminism.

Seriously, much of parenting these days is about removing as much perceived danger from childhood as possible- there's sun block and helmets and no more swings, no more high dives, elbow pads, and bottled water...I think that for boys in particular that leaves a huge gap for processing their male/aggressor/defender feelings.

I agree. Feminine values of nuturing, and basing values upon feelings rather than behavior has had a terrible consequence for boys.
I would really recommend listeinng to Dennis Prager(online) if this is where your believe lies. He is a very intelligent voice on this subject.

Boys are also required to spend more and more time in school- being, essentially little girls. If they show any boy-ness they are told they are defective, have ADD and thrown on medication--when really the flaw was in having little boys sit still and quiet for 2 hour stretches of time.

Ritalin is there more for teachers rather than for boys. It is not as if boys did not have to sit still in classes before, but there was a time that discipline taught them the consequences for lack of control.
Drugs teach them absolutely nothing. they control behavior, rather than forming the morality that boys especially require.

I dunno- personally I think there just ought to be school uniforms- even if that's jeans and blue t-shirt. Just remove how people dress from the swirling vortex of issues middle and high schoolers are dealing with.

It is insane to think that we can send our boys dressed as girls into that swirling vortex or hormones of a High School supercharged as they are with sexual thoughts and innuendo, and assume that there will be no consequences.
This is a failure of adults setting proper limits. Anti-authoritarian attitudes that came out of the sixties are not serving our children well at all.
Children need limits too. Freedom without limits is hellish.

My prayers for both boys and their friends and families.

Prayer just wouldn't really be able to express the contempt towards this form of child abuse that has been legislated in California.

 

[Caedmon]

What ever happened to the good ol' fist fight to solve male dominance issues at school? I mean seriously- why not just deck a kid who keeps asking you to be his vlaentine? I don't think violence is a great solution, but there's some hard wired genetics which make a fist fight exactly what settles issues of pecking order.

Because hitting another student, EVEN IF YOU DO IT IN SELF DEFENSE, receives such a severe punishment, that it's not an option. You get suspended. So the punishment for eliminating an environment not conducive to education is being deprived of education. Besides, there's no longer any honor among highschoolers. They'll attack you en masse, screw honor. And some don't hesitate to use weapons. I, personally, have always hated confrontation, so I would probably never hit someone, unless they were pounding me.

I don't think video games, ets. are much to blame. I think it's a complicated set of issues--however one which is at the top of my suspected list is actually the elimination from acceptable some more minor forms of violence as problem solving, particularly for boys. There's this weird sissification of boys going on and I think that leaves boys very confused and frustrated with the range of emotion which is acceptable to express. Seriously, much of parenting these days is about removing as much perceived danger from childhood as possible- there's sun block and helmets and no more swings, no more high dives, elbow pads, and bottled water...I think that for boys in particular that leaves a huge gap for processing their male/agressor/defneder feelings. Boys are also required to spend more and more time in school- being, essentially little girls. If they show any boy-ness they are told they are defective, have ADD and thrown on medication--when really the flaw was in having little boys sit still and quiet for 2 hour stretches of time.

I agree that boys have been deprived of much of their natural problem solving tactics. That's why kids who are incessantly picked on come to a boiling point and use powerful weapons, because they've been made to feel powerless and worthless, because they're trying to be "good little boys" and not "fall to their level," and thus be punished for standing up for themselves. Concerning medication, I think I might have benefited from it, although I'm not sure. I've always had a HORRIBLE time concentrating, and when I was in second grade, I was treated like crap and singled out as a classroom oddity for not being able to sit still for three hours to copy down dozens of sentences off the wall. And if I didn't finish copying them all down by lunch, I didn't get to go the special class during the afternoon where I actually got to express myself creatively and learn something beyond copying down other people's sentences. I was always terrified of not being able to copy them all down, and I never actually pulled it off. Imagine going through that for eight months.

I dunno- personally I think there just ought to be school uniforms- even if that's jeans and blue t-shirt. Just remove how people dress from the swirling vortex of issues middle and high schoolers are dealing with.

My prayers for both boys and their friends and families.

I agree about instituting school uniforms. These kids, some of them with unlimited cash flow from mommy and daddy, keep pushing the extreme of fashion farther and farther, buying $60 tshirts, huge, chunky gold and silver chains, $200 sneakers, you name it, and they use that as a one-up on the rest of the kids. And then they'll steal each others' clothes and sneakers, then comes the retaliation. Then add in all the other unfair pressures of highschool. Most public schools in America are a joke.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

LOL! It's a weird thread where Caedmon and I and Solomon and Stephen all agree....

Solomon- it is true that boys in the past were expected to sit in their classes- but now the school day is longer, the school year is longer and there is much shorter recess. There is a school district by me where recess (in elementary school, mind you) is 10 min, full day kindergarten has only 30 minutes of recess time--that means 5 year olds are in school for 8 hours and only get 30 minutes to play. It frustrates me to no end for these kiddos- since I know from homeschooling that the book learning which needs to take place can be done in two hours or less each day. Our oldest is a very distractable boy, who is very smart--but in order to succeed in a school setting at this point he'd have to commit huge amounts of brain power to sitting still and quietly, that I can't help but think that his leaning would be affected. Each year he improves more and more in sitting through lessons which are less engaging for him (probably just because of his maturity, teaching some coping mechanisms-paper clips don't stand a chance of not being mangled in our house, lol!-, and our greater allowance for him to stand while he works or to take quick breaks to run outside for a few quick minutes between assignments).

This whole case is interesting to me, as our aforementioned oldest son is very sensetive and emotional and wears his heart on his sleeve. He loves others with his whole being. He is not super athletic in traditional ways--he's great at martial arts, and climbing stuff and diving and running--but not so good at baseball and soccer and basketball stuff. He is all boy, and attraced to girls--but I really wonder if in a traditional school setting if he wouldn't be teased mercilessly. He's really smart and loves playing violin and writing stories and loves science and magic tricks and is fascinated by legends. LOL! Boys littler than him tend to idolize him and the other homeschool boys his age really like him (he's one of those people who being around makes you feel really loved)--but I do wonder if in a public, or even private school if his innocence and quirkiness wouldn't just make other boys really uncomfortable. My hope for him is that by the time he has to experience some of that, that he will really be comfortable with who he is, with his unique gifts and talents, and his young manhood.

It's a darn hard thing to try in this day and age to teach a boy to be a man--because it is so muti-faceted. Our boys need to be strong and dependable and tough, but at the same time emotionally sensitive and caring and possess domestic skills and communication skills. I guess a lot of people right now interpret that as allowing for anything to be "acceptable", rather than a as a challenge to shape and mold their boys into the men they want them to be. LOL! I sometimes sit and think about what I want to teach my kids from the perspective of a future spouse, I ask myself what would a wife want her huusband to value and know, what would a husband want his wife to value and know.

LOL! Sorry, I just realise dI was rambling waaaaaaay off topic...lol!

 

[BAFRIEND]

Yes you preface your comments with the requisite disclaimer, but sometimes reading ones body of work discloses a more malevolent intent. In addition what you wrote regarding Matthew Shepard is debatable, but that is beyond the point. People don't deserve to die because they are drug addicts, drunks, prostitutes or any other shortcoming in life. I always look at the situation and think:

Regarding Mathew Shepherd, I seen no reason for the killers to admit to the murder and the way it was carried out but lie about being solicitated for sex or being groped.

It would make no sense for them to make that up, none.

But the robbery, pistol whipping, and torture you will accept from them- but other facts you claim are lies. Pick and choose- that is called the political agenda and this time coming from GLB.

If I was killed because I went out to a bar, picked up some women, solicited them for sex, and got my throat cut and trick rolled, certainly I would be a victim and no one deserves that- but at the same time I would expect my family to be ashamed of my actions and could even acknowledge some accountability for not being intelligent enouph to watch my own back- but that is too much to expect from the victim mentality GLB political spin.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Regarding Mathew Shepherd, I seen no reason for the killers to admit to the murder and the way it was carried out but lie about being solicitated for sex or being groped.

It would make no sense for them to make that up, none.

But the robbery, pistol whipping, and torture you will accept from them- but other facts you claim are lies. Pick and choose- that is called the political agenda and this time coming from GLB.

If I was killed because I went out to a bar, picked up some women, solicited them for sex, and got my throat cut and trick rolled, certainly I would be a victim and no one deserves that- but at the same time I would expect my family to be ashamed of my actions and could even acknowledge some accountability for not being intelligent enouph to watch my own back- but that is too much to expect from the victim mentality GLB political spin.

It makes plenty of sense for them to make it up. First, a panicked response is third degree murder. Something with more thought or planning is first or second. Second, it might convince a jury to acquit the defendant if it was a panicked response.

I don't know what happened that night, but there are sensible reasons to make up details.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Regarding Mathew Shepherd, I seen no reason for the killers to admit to the murder and the way it was carried out but lie about being solicitated for sex or being groped.

It would make no sense for them to make that up, none.

But the robbery, pistol whipping, and torture you will accept from them- but other facts you claim are lies. Pick and choose- that is called the political agenda and this time coming from GLB.

If I was killed because I went out to a bar, picked up some women, solicited them for sex, and got my throat cut and trick rolled, certainly I would be a victim and no one deserves that- but at the same time I would expect my family to be ashamed of my actions and could even acknowledge some accountability for not being intelligent enouph to watch my own back- but that is too much to expect from the victim mentality GLB political spin.

Shepard suffered a fracture from the back of his head to the front of his right ear. He had severe brain stem damage, which affected his body's ability to regulate heart rate, body temperature and other vital signs. There were also about a dozen small lacerations around his head, face and neck. His injuries were deemed too severe for doctors to operate. Shepard never regained consciousness and remained on full life support. As he lay in intensive care,

Anyone who rationalizes that this kid somehow deserved the above mentioned brutality needs to get right with God. I pray for those who have hardened their hearts.

 

[TheD]

Silly culture.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Anyone who rationalizes that this kid somehow deserved the above mentioned brutality needs to get right with God. I pray for those who have hardened their hearts.

I never said he deserved it. I stated that if I ended up in his shoes under the same or similar circumstances, my family would have every right to be critical and ashamed of my actions. Mathew Shepherd did not deserve to die, but he certainly did himself no favors by being a known drug user who would turn tricks from the gay bar. Those are just facts and trying to turn every murder of a gay person into a political ploy does more harm than good because straight people are not stupid either.

 

[lionroar0]

It's an all around bad case. Parents let child dress like a girl. School did not enforce it's dress code.

Child picks on another child.

Other Child shoots and kills the child dressed like a girl.

That's on heck of a slippery slope.

It seems to me that the children involved already had some bad blood between them before this incident.

It's an all around bad situation and my personal opinion is to pray for everyone involved and that some good may come from this.

Peace

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

I haven't read anything to indicate that the slain student's clothing was against any dress code.

 

[Lady Bug]

It's an all around bad case. Parents let child dress like a girl. School did not enforce it's dress code.

Child picks on another child.

Other Child shoots and kills the child dressed like a girl.

That's on heck of a slippery slope.

It seems to me that the children involved already had some bad blood between them before this incident.

It's an all around bad situation and my personal opinion is to pray for everyone involved and that some good may come from this.

Peace

Exactly lionroar. The whole situation is so messed up!

 

[SolomonVII]

LOL! Boys littler than him tend to idolize him and the other homeschool boys his age really like him (he's one of those people who being around makes you feel really loved)--but I do wonder if in a public, or even private school if his innocence and quirkiness wouldn't just make other boys really uncomfortable. My hope for him is that by the time he has to experience some of that, that he will really be comfortable with who he is, with his unique gifts and talents, and his young manhood.

Really, as long as the kid doesn't raid your panythose from your underwear drawer and your high heels from your closet before he leaves the house, I am sure he will be fine. Dress him up in t-shirts and jeans before you send him off, and there is nothing to worry about.

And the best thing that you can hope for is that his friends do razz him mercilessly for his quirkiness. If boys don't razz each other over each others weirdness, that just means that they don't really like each other.

The best thing that ya woman can do to teach a boy about manhood is have a father there for him. Maybe a woman needs a man as much as a fish needs a bicycle, but a boy needs a father. Soon enough the boy will discover that a typical male is just as likely to slip into his wife's pink housecoat when he invariably forgets to bring a new change of clothes to the shower than he is to pump a corpse full of lead like what happens in with the typical male behavior in Grand Theft Auto. The point is even the most macho men are not all that macho in real life. Having a father around provides this perspective.

And sheesh, stop worrying so much. You mothers are all alike, all this nurturing and doting.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I never said he deserved it. I stated that if I ended up in his shoes under the same or similar circumstances, my family would have every right to be critical and ashamed of my actions. Mathew Shepherd did not deserve to die, but he certainly did himself no favors by being a known drug user who would turn tricks from the gay bar. Those are just facts and trying to turn every murder of a gay person into a political ploy does more harm than good because straight people are not stupid either.

I am not sure but I believe sometimes our initial statements are designed to obfuscate our real feelings that come after the "But"

 

[HalaM]

Exactly lionroar. The whole situation is so messed up!

It is really refreshing to me that I am not reading a bunch of stupid Bible quotes about the child being sinful. I've been volunteering in places that have these sorts of people around, and none of them has ever told me it was "just because they wanted to do it". It seems to be something that is born into them.

The very idea that the parents threw her out is messed up!

HalaM

 

[BAFRIEND]

I am not sure but I believe sometimes our initial statements are designed to obfuscate our real feelings that come after the "But"

You already know that it is my position that homosexuality is objectively evil. I hold that a person with such an orientation can in fact be in God’s grace and can go to heaven if they do not lead a gay lifestyle. But those homosexuals that are gay through leading a gay lifestyle and their supporters are in a state of perpetual sin.


The Church's view through a quote form the Pope:

"Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency toward an intrinsic moral evil and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder."
"The use of the sexual faculty can be morally good" only in a marital relation framed by procreation, he added. "A person engaging in homosexual behavior therefore acts immorally."

The Pope says and the Church teaches that homosexuality is an objective disorder and intrinsic moral evil.

I happen to agree with our Church and if you do not then all I have to say is that you are in OBOB.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

You already know that it is my position that homosexuality is objectively evil. I hold that a person with such an orientation can in fact be in God’s grace and can go to heaven if they do not lead a gay lifestyle. But those homosexuals that are gay through leading a gay lifestyle and their supporters are in a state of perpetual sin.


The Church's view through a quote form the Pope:


The Pope says and the Church teaches that homosexuality is an objective disorder and intrinsic moral evil.

I happen to agree with our Church and if you do not then all I have to say is that you are in OBOB.

And knowing the belief of the Church, I know that does not include tacit approval of a young Gay boy being kicked and beaten to death, then hung on a fence to slowly die.

 

[BAFRIEND]

And knowing the belief of the Church, I know that does not include tacit approval of a young Gay boy being kicked and beaten to death, then hung on a fence to slowly die.

Which I never did.

I stated he was not a very good selection for hate crime poster boy by the GLB as his murder was a trick roll robbery not a hate crime. If he did not go to the bar and leave with strangers in order to trade them sex for drugs this would have had a different ending for Mathew Shepherd.

Moral of the story: Prostitution is illegal for a reason.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Which I never did.

I stated he was not a very good selection for hate crime poster boy by the GLB as his murder was a trick roll robbery not a hate crime. If he did not go to the bar and leave with strangers in order to trade them sex for drugs this would have had a different ending for Mathew Shepherd.

Moral of the story: Prostitution is illegal for a reason.

The court did not agree with your theory that Matthew Shepard was rolled. In order to have been tricked rolled the defendant would have had to been a TRICK. You are basing your facts on a 20/20 piece that has been disputed.

But all this aside. Matthew Shepard was a child of God. God will have his vengeance on those that Kicked and beat him into unconsciousness and left him to die alone outdoors. God will also deal with those that make excuses for killers.

 

[BAFRIEND]

The court did not agree with your theory that Matthew Shepard was rolled. In order to have been tricked rolled the defendant would have had to been a TRICK. You are basing your facts on a 20/20 piece that has been disputed.

But all this aside. Matthew Shepard was a child of God. God will have his vengeance on those that Kicked and beat him into unconsciousness and left him to die alone outdoors. God will also deal with those that make excuses for killers.

Never made any excuse for any killers (show me).

I am not aware of the 20/20 piece that you are now insinuating I am borrowing facts from. But thank you for making me aware that a major media source is telling the real truth.

St. Paul tells us that Christians will be known by how they lived. In Mathew Shepherd's case he died intoxicated offering two men he had met at a gay bar drugs for sex.

 

[SolomonVII]

Just with the superficial details that is all we can know about this case, there is a lot of reasons why we could suspect this murdered boy of being a sociopath. Breaking social norms by cross-dressing, the amorality associated with much of the promiscuity of homosexual culture, the juvenile delinquency often associated with boys in group homes, the bullying of younger children-these are all behaviors associated with the sociopathy.

The thing is though, there is no reason why the martyrs of a post-Christian world would need to share in the innocence of Christ. Christ and his followers became martyrs because of their innocence. Now martyrdom has become so associated with innocence that merely the model of victimhood confers innocence on the victim in the mind of most moderns. Certainly it is a heretical twist on the original story, but heretical perversion of the basic Catholic teaching are nothing new.

As Christians who see thieves and an evil man hanging on the cross alongside Jesus, we are still in a position to understand that there is a difference between being a victim and being a martyr, between the persecution of the innocent and the curses that evil bring into the world and onto one's person.

The cult of victimhood of the modern world recognizes no such distinction.