Anathema to Sabbath-keepers - Council of Laodicea

[Cain Spencer]

Sometimes that's what it feels like.

Now you know how we Roman Catholics feel about u guys!

You're talking about those after 1054? No need to be confused.

(T_T) ~ Wat!?

How boutz ya going over to here and give them a piece of our mind

http://www.christianforums.com/t7462687/
sabbath for Jews and Gentiles

Maybe I will.

 

[Standing Up]

Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church. “Ancient Christianity Exemplified,” Lyman Coleman, ch. 26, sec. 2, p. 527.

I'd agree it's clear that Christians continued to observe the sabbath for centuries. But they also began to observe Sunday (Acts) because of first fruits offered and because of Pentecost poured out on Sunday.

Later on, because of associated persecution, anything perceived as Jewish was prohibited. Later still, new rules were established, which are simply Old Covenant things yoked onto Christians (like the priest class separated from the priesthood of believer). The issue IMO is be convinced in your own mind and understand why you're doing it. Is it because it is part of the Mosaic Law? I'm not under that covenant. Is it because of something else? Then do it. Honor God. The just shall live by faith.

 

[Pythons]

Your Neighbor ( the o.p. ) is a theological Adventist, of the 'seventh day' variety....
...Therefore he would understand that Saturday worship is binding in the Christian era.

He also believes that Jesus is not God, in keeping with the prophet Ellen White he quotes from time to time.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7074576/

“As Jehovah, the supreme Ruler, God could not personally communicate with sinful men, but He so loved the world that He sent Jesus to our world as a revelation of Himself.” {E. G. White, Manuscript Releases Volume 9, p. 122} 1903

The teaching goes on to describe that Jesus is actually Michael the archangel....
...Jesus could have sinned and been annihilated by "God" and ceased to exist forever.
...Etc, etc, etc.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Tough to get a straight answer from RC or EO on this; because of infalliblity questions I suppose.

I proved a very straight answer. The problem with LLOJ is that he could not understand that it was a local council that was not binding on the Catholic Church.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Here is another historical attitude documented of the way they understood things back then..

“Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands.” “The Anti-Nicene Fathers,” Vol 7,p. 413. From “Constitutions of the Holy Apostles,” a document of the 3rd and 4th Centuries.

Something called 'the anti-Nicene fathers' is unlikely to win over the hearts of Christians here.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

In Jerome’s day (420 A.D.) the devoutest Christians did ordinary work on Sunday. “Treatise of the Sabbath Day,” by Dr. White, Lord Bishop of Ely, p. 219.

Then why not quote Jerome instead of some unknown, undated person of later centuries?

Check this out: "All Christians wore pink hats on Tuesdays of the fourth month" -vol. 2 of my Gospel Truth and CF, 1995, by me

Anyone can present quotes that make any claim you want.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church. “Ancient Christianity Exemplified,” Lyman Coleman, ch. 26, sec. 2, p. 527.

That is a meaningless quote from a meaningless source.

Christians were gathering for worship on Sundays since the first century.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

“The seventh-day Sabbath was…solemnised by Christ, the Apostles, and primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in manner quite abolish the observations of it.” “Dissertation on the Lord’s Day,” pp. 33, 34

Meaningless source and false quote.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

From the apostles’ time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observance of the Jews’ Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it.” “Sunday a Sabbath.” John Ley, p.163. London: 1640.

False statement from a meaningless source making a claim about the early church in the 17th Century.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church. “Ancient Christianity Exemplified,” Lyman Coleman, ch. 26, sec. 2, p. 527.

Don't ignore the early sources that show that Christians were gathering on Sunday from very early on. Why are you using a source that selectively presents information? Isn't that called 'propaganda'?

 

[Standing Up]

Just to refresh:

363 Synod of Laodicea
In the period between the First and Second Ecumenical Councils there was a Local Council in Laodicea (c. 363) that decreed, by its 7th Canon: "Persons converted from heresies, that is, of the Novatians, Photinians, and Quartodecimans: . . . shall be received by way of renouncing the heresy and through chrismation." Thus, we see here as well that the more tolerant view prevailed over the more rigid. However, St. Basil the Great’s canons or the Laodicean canons, as authoritative as they may have been, were not as yet laws for the whole universal Church. A decision of an Ecumenical Council[23] was needed. Later, the Sixth Ecumenical Council decreed (in Canon 2) to accept the canons of St. Basil the Great and the canons of Laodicea as laws for the whole Church. This took place more than three centuries later.[24]
http://www.holy-trinity.org/ecclesiology/pogodin-reception/reception-ch1.html

 

[Standing Up]

Something called 'the anti-Nicene fathers' is unlikely to win over the hearts of Christians here.

Ante-Nicene ...

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Tough to get a straight answer from RC or EO on this; because of infalliblity questions I suppose.

The evidence is that the decisions of the local synod of Laodicea were accepted as binding on the whole Church of the time.

As I pointed out to you earlier, infallibility is a Western concept.

We receive the canons of the councils as canonical, which means as 'the rules.' Rules are neither immutable nor infallible. There is a canon, 14 I believe, from the 7th EC that declares that all Readers and Acolytes in the Church must always go about in public in their rassa, their black robe/vestment. I don't.

Likewise, the anti-Rabbinic statements of some ECs, and the overall anti-Rabbinic sentiment of the declarations found in several councils are steeped in historical context that is not profitable to explore here. Suffice to say, the East was far more inclined to hold onto or be friendly with Semitic concepts. Many of the practices later deemed heretical (quartodeciman) began in the East.

We still refer to Saturday as Sabbaton, and liturgies are done on Sabbath. As to whether working on Saturday is required- seriously? Who does. This issue is moot in our culture.

What is not moot is the legacy of unused and uneneforced canons. They should be repealed if not seen as rule- or if they are, why. But we don't hold ECs since the schism.

I observe my day of rest on Saturday, and day of worship on Sunday. The canon is foolish and frivolous.

One of the reasons EO and RC members are reluctant to speak on this matter or others involving ECs is because they don't feel historically or theologically prepared to do so, any more than a typical Protestant is prepared to give an able defense of sola scriptura.

Are Sabbatarians heretics? By ancient definition, one who choses, yes. Moral definition is quite another thing.

If they were honest, they'd admit seeing us that way- captives of Rome and sol invictus- so let's not pretend offense. I think both sides are frivolous and self-aggrandizing.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

I am a Sabbath keeper and am extremely happy. I do not think you will go to hell for not keeping it. But you will be rewarded for your works.



Steve

Or, not works, as the case may be, if one accepts your premises.

That bit right there was double-talk on your part. Rewards are a part of salvation, and you do believe that Sabbath has such eternal consequences, now don't you.

The reward for the Sabbath is temporal. Please show me where it is written that there are eternal consequences for the ordinal Sabbath.

 

[visionary]

Or, not works, as the case may be, if one accepts your premises.

That bit right there was double-talk on your part. Rewards are a part of salvation, and you do believe that Sabbath has such eternal consequences, now don't you.

The reward for the Sabbath is temporal. Please show me where it is written that there are eternal consequences for the ordinal Sabbath.

As Yeshua said ".. least in the kingdom"

 

[Thekla]

Just to add - some canons respond to a particular local crisis. Once that crisis has receded, the canon is not enforced. Should the crisis re-emerge, the enforcement would perhaps be utilized.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Just to add - some canons respond to a particular local crisis. Once that crisis has receded, the canon is not enforced. Should the crisis re-emerge, the enforcement would perhaps be utilized.

What would some of those canons be Thekla? Just curious

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Rdr Iakovos Or, not works, as the case may be, if one accepts your premises.

That bit right there was double-talk on your part. Rewards are a part of salvation, and you do believe that Sabbath has such eternal consequences, now don't you.

The reward for the Sabbath is temporal. Please show me where it is written that there are eternal consequences for the ordinal Sabbath.

As Yeshua said ".. least in the kingdom"

And be happy keeping and doing them

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

Young) Matthew 5:19 "Whoever therefore may loose one of these commands--the least--and may teach men so, least he shall be called in the reign of the heavens,
but whoever may do and may teach [them], he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens".

Young) Revelation 14:12 Here is endurance of the Saints:
here [are] those keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

Young) Revelation 22:14 `Happy are those doing His commands


http://www.christianforums.com/t1457666-101/
Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

Bobby McFerrin - Don't Worry Be Happy - YouTube


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[dollarsbill]

Christians have a New Covenant. No Sabbath commands therein.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Christians have a New Covenant. No Sabbath commands therein.

W/o Sabbath, Law and Food threads, what else would the Sabbatarian SDAs and MJs disucss?

http://www.christianforums.com/t6748067/
Is the fourth commandment done away with?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7587809/#post58409220
Why break the 4th commandment?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7444270/
New Sabbatarian subforum?


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