why is Oneness unorthodox/frowned upon?

So tired of folks over complicating a mysterious yet simple subject.

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. This does not mean three Gods.

Just because the word "trinity" is not found in scripture, does not mean the term "Trinity" cannot be used to explain or show the nature of God.

This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. The concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture.


examples:

God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

May God give you more and more grace and peace.
1 Peter 1:2

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And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
Acts 10:38

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For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:19

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I believe that this page explains the trinity nicely

http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

People seriously need to quit over complicating the truth of scripture. It is upsetting to see some folks acting as if the bible is not clear on the nature of God.

The trinity is the truth no matter how much some folks want to deny it. The truth is the truth. Denying it does not make it anything close to false.

Winepress777 said:

(Joh 3:13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

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Interesting you would quote this verse, here is an OT version of a similar verse:

Genesis 19:24: "24 Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens."

God bless you and keep you,
Ken

If you can explain what's not to be believed with the statement I made, I'd love to hear it. To me, One God..with Father, Son, and HS each identified as God = the Trinity.

he-man said:

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that He is excepted who put all things in subjection under Him.
28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to Him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all
Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

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Albion said:

We've been over this many times. The word itself is manmade, but the fact that the Father is God, the Son is God, the HS is God, and yet there is only one God is plainly stated in Scripture. Call it by whatever term you prefer, but it's there.

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I would say God is the Father, God is the Son, and God is the Holy Spirit.

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ken777 said:

I would say God is the Father, God is the Son, and God is the Holy Spirit.

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That isn't quite what the Bible says, however. If you are saying that one divine being appears to us as different persons at different times, what do you do about the many times one of them is mentioned simultaneously with one or both of the others?

LovelyGiselle said:

This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. The concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. examples:The trinity is the truth no matter how much some folks want to deny it. The truth is the truth. Denying it does not make it anything close to false.

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Some people choose to trust in men and others trust what God says: Ps 20:7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.

Albion said:

If you can explain what's not to be believed with the statement I made, I'd love to hear it. To me, One God..with Father, Son, and HS each identified as God = the Trinity.

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Some people choose to trust in men and others trust what God says: Ps 20:7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Still waiting for an answer to post 143.

Albion said:

That isn't quite what the Bible says, however. If you are saying that one divine being appears to us as different persons at different times, what do you do about the many times one of them is mentioned simultaneously with one or both of the others?

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I think what he is trying to say is that God has three relationships within his being. God is infinite Holy Spirit (John 4:24 ). The Holy Spirit who was upon the waters created life and became the Father and when the invisible Father who is the Holy Ghost entered his Creation as The Emmanuel he became the preeminent Son.
If we look at these two relationships we see according to John in context to John 14:23 which is of the giving of the Holy Ghost on Pentecost that both the Father and the Son will make their dwelling with the believers.
Can God create two separate relationship identities within his infinite being and speak from two distinct positions as Father and as Son?
I believe Jesus says that he can.
If we consider the church in Babylon we see that they have the correct identity by saying three functional relationships within the one personal God. So the word EKHAD or one represents the group by which through the one Holy Spirit we become part of the trinity as the third member of the Father and Son relationship.
Jesus says we will come and make our abode with the believers.
If you modeled God as three distinct persons you would have to say there is three Spirits where the Holy Spirit is one, the Father is a Holy Spirit and the Son is also a Holy Spirit. So this would point to three Holy Spirit distinct and divisible from one another as one definite article and the other two as indefinite.
The church of the east avoids this dilemma and says there is only one infinite and indivisible Holy Spirit who within his devine being exists two relationships by virtue of what the Holy Ghost had done. When he created life he became the Father of all and when he entered his Creation to reveal himself he would be identified in the role as the Son.
Jesus would tell Philip to not look beyond his person for another distinct person called the Father and he was to consider him as the Father and the image of the invisible God where the fulness of the God head dwells in.
Jesus says why are you looking past my person for the Father Philip don't you know that I am the Father and that I am in the Father and the Father is in me within the context of the one indivisible Holy Ghost who is The one God (John 4:24).
John 14 should be read carefully in context to why Jesus prevents Philip from looking passed his person for another person called the Father.
This is not modalism because God the Holy Spirit is omnipresent and can take two relationship roles and speak as two devine presences within his one indivisible being. Finite beings can't do this but the infinite omnipresent Holy Spirit can and he does do just that.
The Holy Ghost transcends time and space and the same devine being can be as the cloud and the Son of man simultaneously speaking with two different voices from two different directions and be the same personal God revealing himself through the three aspects of what he is. The three relationships are a family of three where we also are adopted into this family through the Spirit that indwells us where we become part of the trinity, as Jesus says you in me and I in you.

Albion said:

That isn't quite what the Bible says, however. If you are saying that one divine being appears to us as different persons at different times, what do you do about the many times one of them is mentioned simultaneously with one or both of the others?

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three manifestations, not three Persons

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ken777 said:

three manifestations, not three Persons

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I would not use the word manifestation because if you do then they will charge you with modalism. Modalism is when God is being the Father at one time and then the Son in another time then the Holy Ghost on Pentecost.

God's triune being is not manifestations but rather relationships that existed upon the creation of the world.

Jesus says. ....

John 17:5
5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

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You see the relationship of Father and Son were defined at the point when the world was created, that is the Holy Spirit became the invisible Father and when the Holy Spirit revealed himself in flesh he became the preeminent Son.

Isaiah 9:6 spells out the dual relationships that the Holy Ghost defined at the inception of the world.

After all who bleed on the cross at calvary?

Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

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Two relationships of the one Holy Ghost who holds both these relationships and when we enter as his third member through his Holy Spirit we are called the sons of God. Jesus said as I am in the Father and the Father in me, you also will be in me and I in you. The triune family is complete through the redemptive blood of the Holy Ghost shed on the cross as the suffering Son.
God needed not manifest from one form to another as his identity was defined at the inception of the world, where the Father and the Son relationship were both eternally present because both these are the same functional roles of the Holy Ghost. Notice in Genesis the author writes that the Holy Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters and this devine being said LET us as both Father and Son relationship within the same infinite Spirit, create man in our own image.

It is evident that the Holy Ghost entered his own creation as the preeminent Son. It is quiet incredible when you think that before God would create life, he would do an inspection of his created works.
The author tries to portray this quality inspection when on countless occasions the statement is made as follows. ......

Genesis 1:31
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day.

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I love it how the Holy Ghost comes on tera firma as the Son to do a final inspection before creating Adam.

What wonder I say I salute you Lord. Hehe amazing!

Berean777 said:

I think what he is trying to say is that God has three relationships within his being.

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There's a "relationship" between the persons of the Trinity, but it's not a refutation of the Trinitarian belief to describe the "threeness" of God as him simply having three different relationships with us or of being manifested to us in three different ways or roles.

The Scriptural passages dealing with any of the persons make that interpretation impossible. That's why it was condemned in the early church as a false belief.

LovelyGiselle said:

So tired of folks over complicating a mysterious yet simple subject.

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. This does not mean three Gods.

Just because the word "trinity" is not found in scripture, does not mean the term "Trinity" cannot be used to explain or show the nature of God.

This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. The concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture.


examples:






I believe that this page explains the trinity nicely

http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

People seriously need to quit over complicating the truth of scripture. It is upsetting to see some folks acting as if the bible is not clear on the nature of God.

The trinity is the truth no matter how much some folks want to deny it. The truth is the truth. Denying it does not make it anything close to false.

Click to expand...

Amen. The Word is clear that there is a Trinity of God. Good way to explain it. Oneness doctrine is so crazy because the Word is clear. Someone should count how many times the Father and the Holy Spirit are spoken about. It is many, many times.

ken777 said:

three manifestations, not three Persons

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Well, there's a reason that Modalism--what you describe here--was condemned as a false belief in the early church. It sounds reasonable enough to our ears to say that the three names of the Deity are describing different ways that one God interacted with mankind, but the verses in Scripture dealing with the persons rule that out. And when you say "not Persons" we agree that the word is not describing three separate individual beings. That is also ruled out by Trinitarians.

Amen. The Word is clear that there is a Trinity of God. Good way to explain it. Oneness doctrine is so crazy because the Word is clear. Someone should count how many times the Father and the Holy Spirit are spoken about. It is many, many times.

What is important:

The Father sent His Son to the earth to die for our sins.
Through faith, we are saved by Jesus Christ.
At salvation, the Holy Spirit is given to us by Christ to help us live our new lives as a new creation.
The Holy Spirit is our guarantee/promise that we are Christ's own.
The Holy Spirit is given to us as part of our inheritance in Christ until we receive our full inheritance.
The Holy Spirit prays for us when we do not know what to pray for ourselves.
When we are judged, Jesus will advocate for us and our advocate Has taken our sin upon Himself, allowing us to appear without sin, through Christ to the Father.

What does Jesus say, "No man comes to the Father, but by Me".

Each of the Trinity has a clear role. Each member of the Trinity in their role points us to the other members of the Trinity.

Read the words of Jesus, He said "I can do nothing that I have not seen my Father do".

ken777 said:

three manifestations, not three Persons

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No, three individual persons. The Father sent the Son. The Father did not send Himself in some other manifestation. The Word tells us that the Son is the only begotten of the Father, which means the Son was not created. Begotten is not created.

The Holy Spirit resides in us after Salvation. This is not the Father, or the Son, but the Holy Spirit.

Albion said:

There's a "relationship" between the persons of the Trinity, but it's not a refutation of the Trinitarian belief to describe the "threeness" of God as him simply having three different relationships with us or of being manifested to us in three different ways or roles.

The Scriptural passages dealing with any of the persons make that interpretation impossible. That's why it was condemned in the early church as a false belief.

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You said of God having three different relationship with us.

If these aren't relationships with us his creation, then with whom are these relationships with?

For example:

To whom is God the Father to?
To Whom is God the Son to?
To whom is God the Holy Spirit to?

Are you saying that non of these three relationships are to us?
If not, then to whom are they?

Verses:
John 17:21-22
that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one"

JESUS

Matthew 6:9-13
Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 8:19
Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.


John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

HOLY SPIRIT

John 14:16-17
“And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him for he dwells with you and will be in you.”

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.”

John 16:8-11
“And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.”