why is Oneness unorthodox/frowned upon?

[he-man]

Still waiting for an answer to post 143.

Isaiah 66:1 Thus says the LORD:
"Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
(2) For all those things My hand has made,
And all those exist,"
Says the LORD.
"But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.
Therefore, Some people choose to trust in men and others trust what God says: Ps 20:7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 

[he-man]

Still waiting for an answer to post 143.

Isaiah 66:1 Thus says the LORD:
"Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
(2) For all those things My hand has made,
And all those exist,"
Says the LORD.
"But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word. Threfore: Some people choose to trust in men and others trust what God says: Ps 20:7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 

[Berean777]

Maybe you should make this clear to other posters and not simply identify yourself as "Christian?" Just a thought.

Just because a wrong Label is used it doesn't mean that it is true. The first Christians were the church at Babylon and they ascribed to three relationship functions of the Godhead in one Devine infinite being.

As I stated before if you want God to be inclusive of the spiritual temple you need to say that all members of the trinity are dwelling in the temple and not just one. This reveals the identity of God as one infinite being who indwells believers as both those relationships as Father and Son. That infinite being is God who is one indivisible infinite Holy Spirit.

If there is exclusion of two members of the Godhead from his spiritual temple, then you have the Holy Spirit as the definite article and two other members who are also Holy Spirit but with an indefinite article in identitity as having separable wills with distinct Spirit, which is a flaw in the definition of the trinity.

If the Godhead doesn't dwell in the believer through all three functional relationships of Father, Son and Holy Spirit then you have a partial spiritual dwelling with only third moving in. It would be saying that God partially moved into his temple and you know and I know that this is not true. God fully moved into his temple and all three are the one God dwelling in his temple. How can you say that this does not reveal God's identitity, well he certainly isn't three distinct spirits.

As a Christain I believe that triune Godhead spiritually dwells in his temple and so we don't look outwardly, we look inwardly where we cry ABBA, meaning Father.

 

[Berean777]

...

 

[Albion]

Just because a wrong Label is used it doesn't mean that it is true.

All I was saying is that it would make things a lot clearer, a lot sooner, for people discussing such topics with you if you identified your church up front.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Can you see how the infinite Holy Ghost can be both these relationships and speak from both of them distinctly as if they are two persons, but in reality they are not two persons but the Holy Ghost speaking as the Father and also as the Son.

The key to understanding the Trinity and God is to know that they are all of like mind, in total agreement, in 100% perfection as God is perfection.

It is remembering this that it all makes sense.

A non-perfect example, but one that I think we can all understand is if my boss is the Vice-President of the company, but he cannot attend an important meeting, a meeting that must have his vote recorded and that must have his point of view on a topic explained and that person would send someone else. The person going (me in this example) knows the topic of the meeting, has been working on this project with him for years, would be able to go to a high-level meeting to explain the exact point of view of the other person and to vote as that person intended. I then of like mind and understanding with who I am representing. I know the complex situation as I have been working on it each day with the person I am representing.

Do you know why the Holy Spirit will not speak of his own?

The Holy Spirit functions on His own all the time. In the Word we are told what the Holy Spirit does.

The Holy Spirit convicts the saved Christian of their sin.
The Holy Spirit prays on our behalf for what we do not know that we need.
The Holy Spirit provides spiritual comfort to us when we are distraught.
The Holy Spirit resides in each saved person.
The Holy Spirit confirms with our spirit that we are the children of God.
The Holy Spirit is part of our inheritance in Christ. The Holy Spirit in us is our guarantee of our place in the Body of Christ and our guarantee of our future inheritance after death.

Now if you think about the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is sent to indwell a believer after salvation and forgiveness of sin by our Lord Jesus Christ. So the Holy Spirit's primary role with us is after salvation. Why would the Holy Spirit speak for Himself, when the only way for the Holy Spirit to be part of a human beings life is through salvation in Jesus Christ?

Between which two relationships is the Holy Spirit speaking on behalf?

This question is a little confusing, but the Holy Spirit role is to sanctify us (to help us become more like Jesus Christ who is God who lived on earth). The Holy Spirit is always pointing to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is always pointing to the Father.

The Father and the Son speaking amongst themselves is what the Holy Ghost is reporting on. The Holy Ghost doesn't speak of himself because he has presented himself as these two relationships to his creation as Father and also Son.

No. Each member of the Godhead is of the same understanding.

What do you think the Holy Spirit needs to say about Himself? He is God Himself. Do you think He should be patting Himself on the back or doing something else? What do you see about Him that makes Him less than the Son or the Father, being that they are all God?

Listen to what Jesus states in context to the giving of the Holy Ghost on Pentecost.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

who will come on Pentecost to make their dwelling with the believers?

John 16:12-15 NASB
“I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15“All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you."

This verse with the verse before it and a few verses after it explain well.

We Jesus says, meaning the Father and the Son. But hold on a second isn't the Holy Ghost coming?

We have God dwelling inside of each one of us. The Father and the Son do not dwell within us.

Jesus has told us that He will never leave or forsake us. That when two or more believers gather in His Name, that He is with them also. [/QUOTE]

Yes, but he is speaking of these two relationships and not of himself. So the trinity exists in the believers because the Holy Ghost is the Father and also the Son to his creation.

Nope. Our God is a triunal God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Berean777]

All I was saying is that it would make things a lot clearer, a lot sooner, for people discussing such topics with you if you identified your church up front.

Yes you are correct, I will take onboard and accept this advice from a brother in Christ. Thank your and

God Bless

 

[Berean777]

The key to understanding the Trinity and God is to know that they are all of like mind, in total agreement, in 100% perfection as God is perfection.

It is remembering this that it all makes sense.

A non-perfect example, but one that I think we can all understand is if my boss is the Vice-President of the company, but he cannot attend an important meeting, a meeting that must have his vote recorded and that must have his point of view on a topic explained and that person would send someone else. The person going (me in this example) knows the topic of the meeting, has been working on this project with him for years, would be able to go to a high-level meeting to explain the exact point of view of the other person and to vote as that person intended. I then of like mind and understanding with who I am representing. I know the complex situation as I have been working on it each day with the person I am representing.



The Holy Spirit functions on His own all the time. In the Word we are told what the Holy Spirit does.

The Holy Spirit convicts the saved Christian of their sin.
The Holy Spirit prays on our behalf for what we do not know that we need.
The Holy Spirit provides spiritual comfort to us when we are distraught.
The Holy Spirit resides in each saved person.
The Holy Spirit confirms with our spirit that we are the children of God.
The Holy Spirit is part of our inheritance in Christ. The Holy Spirit in us is our guarantee of our place in the Body of Christ and our guarantee of our future inheritance after death.

Now if you think about the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is sent to indwell a believer after salvation and forgiveness of sin by our Lord Jesus Christ. So the Holy Spirit's primary role with us is after salvation. Why would the Holy Spirit speak for Himself, when the only way for the Holy Spirit to be part of a human beings life is through salvation in Jesus Christ?

This question is a little confusing, but the Holy Spirit role is to sanctify us (to help us become more like Jesus Christ who is God who lived on earth). The Holy Spirit is always pointing to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is always pointing to the Father.




No. Each member of the Godhead is of the same understanding.

What do you think the Holy Spirit needs to say about Himself? He is God Himself. Do you think He should be patting Himself on the back or doing something else? What do you see about Him that makes Him less than the Son or the Father, being that they are all God?




John 16:12-15 NASB
“I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15“All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you."

This verse with the verse before it and a few verses after it explain well.

We have God dwelling inside of each one of us. The Father and the Son do not dwell within us.

Jesus has told us that He will never leave or forsake us. That when two or more believers gather in His Name, that He is with them also.

Did you say that The Father and the Son don't dwell inside of you.

But please consider what Jesus said to his disciples.

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It is totally related when I asked if the fullness of the Godhead dwells in the believer. Because God said he will dwell in his temple, therefore you would either have inclusion of the trinity in the believer or exclusion. When there is exclusion then that points to only one relationship dwelling in his temple while the others are not. What would that mean?

It would mean that you can't have God saying I will dwell in my spiritual temple to only have one member of his Godhead dwelling, therefore if all three are dwelling then the Holy Ghost is the Father and the Son.

The apostles certainly thought so according to their statements mentioning that the Holy Ghost purchased us with his own blood. Off course he can only take credit for it because the Holy Ghost by relationship to his creation is the Son who suffered.

Know this much, if you DO NOT have the Holy Spirit, then you ARE NOT one of Christ's own. The Holy Spirit residing in each individual is the qualifier, so He is not chopped liver. That is why Jesus sends the Holy Spirit to each believer upon salvation.

Ephesians 1:13-14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Corinthians 1:22
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

 

[Berean777]

Know this much, if you DO NOT have the Holy Spirit, then you ARE NOT one of Christ's own. The Holy Spirit residing in each individual is the qualifier, so He is not chopped liver. That is why Jesus sends the Holy Spirit to each believer upon salvation.

Ephesians 1:13-14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Corinthians 1:22
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

It comes back to the question of whether you believe that the triune Godhead dwells in his spiritual temple. I believe that The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit dwell in me.

 

[Berean777]

I was baptised in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit where the Godhead dwells in me, for I am the spiritual temple of the Living God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Did you say that The Father and the Son don't dwell inside of you.

But please consider what Jesus said to his disciples.

You can read that however you like, but it does not change what the Bible says. Now, when we are saved, we become a child of God. Of GOD. So, God is dwelling within us. If you have an issue that that is the Holy Spirit, than you should read more of the Bible which makes clear that we have not received our full inheritance yet, and that with the Holy Spirit in us, we have God Himself within us.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It comes back to the question of whether you believe that the triune Godhead dwells in his spiritual temple. I believe that The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit dwell in me.

Interesting.

Then why is our body called the temple of the Holy Spirit particularly?

 

[Berean777]

This is the concept of the spiritual oneness, as Jesus said I am in the Father and the Father I me, so also you will be in me and I in you. John 14 is completely in context to the giving of the Holy Ghost and guess what Jesus says in a little while the world will see me no more but you will see me for I will not leave you as orphans. John 14:23 says who exactly is coming to make their dwelling with us and Jesus says the Father and I will come, for the relationship of the Holy Ghost to his creation is between these two whom the Spirit speaks about and reveals all truth to the believers. There is one infinite Holy Spirit and we are one with the Spirit which makes us one with the triune God. The trinity in us.

Has anyone written a book about the trinity living in us, maybe someone will.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I was baptised in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit where the Godhead dwells in me, for I am the spiritual temple of the Living God.

Just because you have not received your full inheritance now, does not mean that you are lacking in anything. You are a co-heir of the Father with Jesus Christ? Why are you so worried if the Father and Son resides in your body right now? What are you lacking or what do you see us lacking that the Holy Spirit is within us? It's very odd.

Are you not happy with what God HAS given you?

 

[Berean777]

You can read that however you like, but it does not change what the Bible says. Now, when we are saved, we become a child of God. Of GOD. So, God is dwelling within us. If you have an issue that that is the Holy Spirit, than you should read more of the Bible which makes clear that we have not received our full inheritance yet, and that with the Holy Spirit in us, we have God Himself within us.

Ok.

 

[Berean777]

Interesting.

Then why is our body called the temple of the Holy Spirit particularly?

Because the infinite Holy Ghost is the one indivisible God who has defined himself from the beginning as the Father and Son relationship towards his creation, call them a family and in the same way our families are modelled after.

 

[ToBeLoved]

This is the concept of the spiritual oneness, as Jesus said I am in the Father and the Father I me, so also you will be in me and I in you. John 14 is completely in context to the giving of the Holy Ghost and guess what Jesus says in a little while the world will see me no more but you will see me for I will not leave you as orphans. John 14:23 says who exactly is coming to make their dwelling with us and Jesus says the Father and I will come, for the relationship of the Holy Ghost to his creation is between these two whom the Spirit speaks about and reveals all truth to the believers. There is one infinite Holy Spirit and we are one with the Spirit which makes us one with the triune God. The trinity in us.

Has anyone written a book about the trinity living in us, maybe someone will.

No, why would anyone right a book about something that does not exist?

Only in our perfect heavenly bodies after death is that possible. Why you are unsatisfied with God residing in you as He does now, is the question? You demand now, what God has already promised you? His promise of your future full inheriance and the Holy Spirit in you as a seal and guarantee is not enough?

WOW. Just WOW.

 

[Berean777]

Just because you have not received your full inheritance now, does not mean that you are lacking in anything. You are a co-heir of the Father with Jesus Christ? Why are you so worried if the Father and Son resides in your body right now? What are you lacking or what do you see us lacking that the Holy Spirit is within us? It's very odd.

Are you not happy with what God HAS given you?

There is nothing lacking you are blessed ToBeLoved or should I say YouAreLoved by the Lord. What I am saying is that the Godhead dwells in his temple. It is not a partial dwelling, it must be Father and Son as Jesus said in John 14:23.

God bless

 

[ToBeLoved]

Because the infinite Holy Ghost is the one indivisible God who has defined himself from the beginning as the Father and Son relationship towards his creation, call them a family and in the same way our families are modelled after.

Can you list the verses of scripture that says that? If that is what God has told us, it is in scripture.