why is Oneness unorthodox/frowned upon?

[he-man]

But, Albion, the scripture which He-Man provided helped me, once, when I was into oneness >
A Jehovah's Witness teacher was able to use this scripture to debunk me. But that did not mean he was into the right thing. Wrong people can point out how other wrong people are wrong, but they can not bring us to all that is right. In any case, this scripture does confirm that our Father and Jesus are not the same individual.
And . . . about there being one Savior > And He-Man has pointed out how there is "no" savior but God. So, He-Man has provided how only God is our Savior, and Paul and Peter have confirmed how Jesus is our Lord and Savior. And the scripture provided by He-Man shows how Jesus our Lord and Savior is a different Person than our Father is.

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant because Christ did not exist before and so the people were baptized by Moses who represented the Spiritual nature of Christ 1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; :2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
2Co 3:6, and Christ is the Spirit and “end” of the Old Testament, who giveth life to it, whereas “the letter killeth” Eph 3:7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of His power. Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
Note: ** by Jesus Christ is Omitted in the original translations.**

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father
Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his Lord; neither he that is sent greater than He that sent him. Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but He that said unto him, Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee. Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jesus said it was to the "will of God and not his will that he should die. Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou
Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

 

[he-man]

But, Albion, the scripture which He-Man provided helped me, once, when I was into oneness >
A Jehovah's Witness teacher was able to use this scripture to debunk me. But that did not mean he was into the right thing. Wrong people can point out how other wrong people are wrong, but they can not bring us to all that is right. In any case, this scripture does confirm that our Father and Jesus are not the same individual.
And . . . about there being one Savior >)

Gosh, if Christ pre-existed why were the Israelites baptized by Moses and not by Christ? 1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

 

[he-man]

Why is that? And what's the connection to the Jehovah's Witnesses, then--a former member, unofficial devotee, etc. ?

No, not ever a member, are you one? Gosh, if Jesus pre-existed, why were the Israelites baptized by Moses???
1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

 

[Albion]

Gosh, if Christ pre-existed why were the Israelites baptized by Moses and not by Christ?

Why were they baptized by Moses and not by the Father? You believe that he pre-existed, I assume.

 

[Albion]

No, not ever a member, are you one?

No, I'm not. But then again, I don't argue on behalf of Jehovah's Witness theology in post after post, either.

 

[com7fy8]

Gosh, if Christ pre-existed why were the Israelites baptized by Moses and not by Christ? 1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Because the law came through Moses, and they were with Moses under the law, at that time.

"For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17)

Jesus needed to die for us, first, before we could be "baptized into His death". (in Romans 6:3)

 

[he-man]

Because the law came through Moses, and they were with Moses under the law, at that time."For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17)

And NOW the rest of the story:
Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and [His Son] Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreseen before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

[he-man]

No, I'm not. But then again, I don't argue on behalf of Jehovah's Witness theology in post after post, either.

And NOW the rest of the story:
Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and [His Son] Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreseen before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

[Lavendar Frog]

The bible never says God is not one. Twice it refers to God as one and never as three. This makes no sense to me. Apostolic's are persecuted for this belief and to me It makes no sense.

All KJV's to follow:
Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.

Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

Unfortunately there are many a polytheistic argument when it comes to the triune nature of God. (Triune=three in one).
However, there is not three separate entities in Heaven. That would make Christianity a polytheistic religion like unto the pagans. Which isn't possible.

Scripture tells us God is a spirit. That covers God, the Holy Spirit, and the son of man/son of God. Because Jesus was begat upon Mary through the emissary of God and his Holy Spirit. Jesus was flesh but he was the embodiment of the Father, the Holy Spirit.
God is one.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The bible never says God is not one. Twice it refers to God as one and never as three. This makes no sense to me. Apostolic's are persecuted for this belief and to me It makes no sense.

The error of Oneness is that they deny the eternal Son of God pre existant before he came in the flesh. At least this is what i get from some of them who I have talked to. But this is a great error. Whosoever denies the Son hath not the father as scripture teaches

There are many verses about the Son of God and his pre existance before he came in the flesh.

 

[Dave-W]

Are you suggesting the UPCI doctrine of oneness is heretical?

Not suggesting - saying it outright.

 

[Dave-W]

My sister's inlaws are all UPC oneness pentecostals. The congreation her FIL and MIL attended has this verse on the wall behind the pulpit:

Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.

I am more used to it in the original Hebrew: Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Elohenu Adonai echad.

While traditional Judaism has confessed this verse for over 2000 years as a statement of God's absolute singularity; it actually supports the trinity. First off, "God" is said 3 times. Adonai Elohenu Adonai Then it uses the Hebrew word echad. Hebrew has 2 words for one, echad and yachad. Of the two, yachad more carries the idea of absolute singularity. Echad is also used in Genesis 2 where Moses taught that husband and wife are to become one [echad] flesh. So it is used to denote a composite unity like a husband and wife. (at least how it was used in the time of Moses)

 

[he-man]

All KJV's to follow:
Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.

Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

Unfortunately there are many a polytheistic argument when it comes to the triune nature of God. (Triune=three in one).
However, there is not three separate entities in Heaven. That would make Christianity a polytheistic religion like unto the pagans. Which isn't possible.

Scripture tells us God is a spirit. That covers God, the Holy Spirit, and the son of man/son of God. Because Jesus was begat upon Mary through the emissary of God and his Holy Spirit. Jesus was flesh but he was the embodiment of the Father, the Holy Spirit.
God is one.

Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, AND [Your Son] Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

 

[Lavendar Frog]

Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, AND [Your Son] Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

That doesn't discount all the other scripture wherein Jesus stated that he and the father are one. And that when one had seen him (Yeshua/Jesus) they had seen the father also.

 

[Lavendar Frog]

Not suggesting - saying it outright.

Actually, polytheism is heretical. Imagining three separate god's is the pagan way. Not the Christian.

 

[Dave-W]

Actually, polytheism is heretical. Imagining three separate god's is the pagan way. Not the Christian.

Tri-theism (3 gods) is a perversion of true trinitarian belief.

 

[Lavendar Frog]

Tri-theism (3 gods) is a perversion of true trinitarian belief.

Actually, believing there are three separate god's under the label of trinity, is a perversion of the first scriptures that inform us that there is only one God and there is no other besides him, and that he is a spirit. Which accounts for all descriptions pertaining to God, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit being one power alone. As God told us in the beginning and throughout the Biblical texts.
God is one.
God is a spirit.
When God created man he breathed into his nostrils and be became a living soul. That would be especially relevant to the conception within Mary of the son Jesus Christ. All accomplished through God's Holy Spirit.

ETA: The word, term, Trinity , is never used in scripture.
God is plural. This does not mean there are three separate entities sourced from God. It means that God acts from himself as a spirit to manifest by his will his presence on earth as it is in Heaven.

 

[Dave-W]

God is composite-unity One - Hebrew echad.

It does not say God is yachad - absolute singularity One.

Edited to add:

Don't know what happened to the rest of my post but I never saw it come up at all yesterday. Then I lost all access to this (and several others) site.

God is ONE. God is also THREE; and according to Revelation, God is SEVEN. At the same time. ALL the time.

No - it does not make sense. It is a logical nightmare. But the God I serve is way beyond any rule of logic.

 

[he-man]

That doesn't discount all the other scripture wherein Jesus stated that he and the father are one. And that when one had seen him (Yeshua/Jesus) they had seen the father also.

You forgot one!!!
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me,, that they may be one, as we are 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

 

[Lavendar Frog]

You forgot one!!!
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me,, that they may be one, as we are 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Where did I forget one, please. I had stated that Jesus/Yeshua had said that he and the father are one. Jesus was also imbued by God's Holy Spirit.