why is Oneness unorthodox/frowned upon?

[Albion]

It's surprising that anyone wouldn't understand that "when you've seen me, you've seen him" (paraphrased) means just what we would mean when saying "if you've seen one ranch house, you've seen 'em all." No, it doesn't mean that you've literally seen every ranch house in the country, nor did Jesus mean that they had literally eyeballed their Heavenly Father.

 

[Albion]

You forgot one!!!
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me,, that they may be one, as we are 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

So.....what you want us to know is that the Father and the Son are "one" in the same sense as you and I are one as believers. OK.

 

[he-man]

Where did I forget one, please. I had stated that Jesus/Yeshua had said that he and the father are one. Jesus was also imbued by God's Holy Spirit.

So you think we are all gods because they may be one, as we are ?
Jn 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Re 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:,worship God: [not Jesus] for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[he-man]

re you hungry? Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
Luk 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Re 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called the word of God.
7 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the angels that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me,, that they may be one, as we are 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

 

[he-man]

So.....what you want us to know is that the Father and the Son are "one" in the same sense as you and I are one as believers. OK.

So you think we are all gods because That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:
that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: [not Jesus]for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Are you hungry? Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
Luk 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Re 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called the word of God.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the angels that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. .

 

[Lavendar Frog]

So you think we are all gods because they may be one, as we are ?
Jn 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Re 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:,worship God: [not Jesus] for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

I think I choose to believe what the master Jesus tells us.
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

 

[he-man]

I think I choose to believe what the master Jesus tells us.
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Ye are gods (theoi este). Another direct quotation after eipa but without hoti. The judges of Israel abused their office and God is represented in Psa_82:6 as calling them “gods” [RWP] and then ]Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
So, Think again; Proverbs 16:19 Better to be of a humble spirit with the lowly, Than to divide the spoil with the proud.

 

[Imagican]

If UPCI is "Oneness Pentacostal", then yes, it is considered a heresy because the Bible is clear that God is three persons in one God, all of them present at the same time.

I personally believe you are confused. "Trinity" is NOT Biblical. It is a 'man made concept' that some insist is based on the Bible. But the truth is, the Bible actually contradicts the concept. NO where in the Bible is Christ offered as COeternal with God. Nor that He is equal in any manner. Christ Himself openly stated that it is GOD that is greater than the Son. That it is God that KNOWS all, not the Son. And it is NEXT to God that His Son now sits. Plainly illustrating that the Son if NOT God. He is exactly who He has told us He is: The Son of the Living God. Never ONCE did Christ reveal that He is GOD. Not ONCE in four Gospels and all the epistles. He even rebuked a man that called him 'good master' stating that there is ONLY ONE THAT IS GOOD: God.
So please, you can certainly state what you believe, but when you state that the Bible teaches 'trinity' or even HINTS at it is not correct. Even those that created it STATE that it is NOT a concept mentioned in the Bible.
Blessings,
MEC

 

[Albion]

I personally believe you are confused. "Trinity" is NOT Biblical.

We've been over this many times. The word itself is manmade, but the fact that the Father is God, the Son is God, the HS is God, and yet there is only one God is plainly stated in Scripture. Call it by whatever term you prefer, but it's there.

 

[A New Dawn]

I personally believe you are confused. "Trinity" is NOT Biblical. It is a 'man made concept' that some insist is based on the Bible. But the truth is, the Bible actually contradicts the concept. NO where in the Bible is Christ offered as COeternal with God. Nor that He is equal in any manner. Christ Himself openly stated that it is GOD that is greater than the Son. That it is God that KNOWS all, not the Son. And it is NEXT to God that His Son now sits. Plainly illustrating that the Son if NOT God. He is exactly who He has told us He is: The Son of the Living God. Never ONCE did Christ reveal that He is GOD. Not ONCE in four Gospels and all the epistles. He even rebuked a man that called him 'good master' stating that there is ONLY ONE THAT IS GOOD: God.
So please, you can certainly state what you believe, but when you state that the Bible teaches 'trinity' or even HINTS at it is not correct. Even those that created it STATE that it is NOT a concept mentioned in the Bible.
Blessings,
MEC

I believe you are confused. Just because something is not mentioned by name does not mean that it is not a Biblical truth. Christ was clear that He was equal with the Father while his humility prevents him from saying it. Not just his humility, but the fact that he would have been crucified before his time had he come right out and said it. The Trinity is demonstrated at Jesus' baptism. John recognizing who Christ was, Christ being baptized, the Father stating "This is my beloved son", the Holy Spirit descending in the form of a dove. Besides which, how can someone have the authority to deliver people from their sins if they don't have the authority? That is exactly, EXACTLY, what the pharisees understood Jesus to be saying and why they needed to get rid of him. Because He claimed to be God.

 

[A New Dawn]

I think on this topic that there is a lot that can quote scriptures on both sides to support their beliefs. I have heard both but I am not here to decide which is right as if there is a God surely in the end we will know if they are all one or a trinity.

I think you err. There is nothing in scripture to support a modalistic belief in God.

 

[he-man]

I personally believe you are confused. "Trinity" is NOT Biblical. It is a 'man made concept' that some insist is based on the Bible. But the truth is, the Bible actually contradicts the concept. NO where in the Bible is Christ offered as COeternal with God. Nor that He is equal in any manner. Christ Himself openly stated that it is GOD that is greater than the Son. That it is God that KNOWS all, not the Son. And it is NEXT to God that His Son now sits. Plainly illustrating that the Son if NOT God. He is exactly who He has told us He is: The Son of the Living God. Never ONCE did Christ reveal that He is GOD. Not ONCE in four Gospels and all the epistles. He even rebuked a man that called him 'good master' stating that there is ONLY ONE THAT IS GOOD: God.
So please, you can certainly state what you believe, but when you state that the Bible teaches 'trinity' or even HINTS at it is not correct. Even those that created it STATE that it is NOT a concept mentioned in the Bible.Blessings, MEC

AMEN!

 

[Albion]

I personally believe you are confused. "Trinity" is NOT Biblical. It is a 'man made concept'....

One God. Father is God. Son is God. Holy Spirit is God.

That's the belief that is referred to by the term "Trinity." To deny it is to deny the Bible's witness.[/QUOTE]

 

[he-man]

One God. Father is God. Son is God. Holy Spirit is God.That's the belief that is referred to by the term "Trinity." To deny it is to deny the Bible's witness.

What it means is that Christ and the Holy Spirit and the Father are NOT a Trinity. Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.

 

[Albion]

What it means is that Christ and the Holy Spirit and the Father are NOT a Trinity.

Quite the contrary. It should be beyond debating that if there is only one God and three "somethings" are God, you've got a situation that the word "Trinity" describes. You can't say that there are three gods, for that would contradict the Bible. And you can't say that any one of two of these three are not God, for that would ALSO violate Scripture.

 

[he-man]

Quite the contrary. It should be beyond debating that if there is only one God and three "somethings" are God, you've got a situation that the word "Trinity" describes. You can't say that there are three gods, for that would contradict the Bible. And you can't say that any one of two of these three are not God, for that would ALSO violate Scripture.

That would require Unbelief: Hebrews 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; (13) but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

 

[Albion]

That would require Unbelief: Hebrews 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; (13) but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

All I can conclude from this reply is either that you didn't understand or didn't want to.

 

[he-man]

All I can conclude from this reply is either that you didn't understand or didn't want to.

Huh? You said, " And you can't say that any one of two of these three are not God, for that would ALSO violate Scripture." So, either your scriptures are lacking or your timing is off. Christ was not a god, before his ascension and will not be a god after his ascension. There is only ONE God, to think otherwise would violate the scriptures.
1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. (12) He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. (13) These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Jn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[Albion]

Huh? You said, " And you can't say that any one of two of these three are not God, for that would ALSO violate Scripture."

I really don't know what you're going on about. The Bible clearly teaches that God is one, that the Father is God, that the Son is God, and that the Holy Ghost is God.

Create whatever word you want that describes this...or don't call it anything, if that's your choice...but the fact is exactly as stated there.

 

[he-man]

that the Father is God, that the Son is God, and that the Holy Ghost is God.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that He is excepted who put all things in subjection under Him.
28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to Him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all
Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.