Sanhedrin plans to put Pope on trial

Jan001 · Jul 29, 2015

Rhamiel said:
well the promises of God are for the "children of Abraham"
there is no talk of paternal lines or maternal lines
just his descendants

Exactly.

Abraham is my father and I am not Jewish.

Genesis 15:18
On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates,

Galatians 3:6-8
Just as Abraham “believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” 7 so, you see, those who believe are the descendants of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, declared the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the Gentiles shall be blessed in you.”

So, according to Scripture, I have a God-given right to live in Israel even though the current government will not allow it.

Rhamiel · Jul 29, 2015

thank you Jan
of course those who support the apartheid modern nation-state of Israel will disagree with that

Open Heart · Jul 29, 2015

Jan001 said:
Abraham is my father and I am not Jewish.

You are not a physical descendant of Abraham, nor are you adopted into his family as converts like Ruth and Rahab are. You are not entitled to the Land his descendants are promised.

ebia · Jul 29, 2015

Okay, now what counts as "descended"?

Rhamiel · Jul 29, 2015

Open Heart said:
You are not a physical descendant of Abraham, nor are you adopted into his family as converts like Ruth and Rahab are. You are not entitled to the Land his descendants are promised.

who is a Jew?

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, that is one inwardly; and the circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

when I was baptized, I became a part of the Body of Christ
is Jesus Christ a Jew?
am I part of His Body?

are the members of this Sanhedrin "in the spirit"?
would St. Paul call them true Jews?

Rhamiel · Jul 29, 2015

ebia said:
Okay, now what counts as "descended"?

Zionists seem to see it as mostly biological but they seem to make exceptions for those who convert to Talmudic Judaism

Talmudic Judaism is not the same as the religion practiced in the Old Testament

St. John the Baptist said that God could raise up "children of Abraham" from the very stones, many see that as a prophecy about God accepting the gentiles as adopted children
St. Paul talks about the "wild vines" being grafted in while some of the original branches have been "cut off"

2 John 1:7
For many seducers are gone out into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh: this is a seducer and an antichrist.

does an antichrist have the right to the land that God has promised to His people?

the promise of the Land is to His people
remember St. Paul says that you are a Jew who is one inwardly
and that gentiles have been grafted on

Open Heart · Jul 29, 2015

ebia said:
Okay, now what counts as "descended"?

Oh please. Let's not miss the point by being engrossed by the details. The point is that the promise is to physical descendants, not spiritual descendants.

ebia · Jul 29, 2015

Open Heart said:
Oh please. Let's not miss the point by being engrossed by the details. The point is that the promise is to physical descendants, not spiritual descendants.

It's more than a detail; it's a crucial point.

ebia · Jul 29, 2015

Rhamiel said:
Zionists seem to see it as mostly biological but they seem to make exceptions for those who convert to Talmudic Judaism

Talmudic Judaism is not the same as the religion practiced in the Old Testament

St. John the Baptist said that God could raise up "children of Abraham" from the very stones, many see that as a prophecy about God accepting the gentiles as adopted children
St. Paul talks about the "wild vines" being grafted in while some of the original branches have been "cut off"

2 John 1:7
For many seducers are gone out into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh: this is a seducer and an antichrist.

does an antichrist have the right to the land that God has promised to His people?

the promise of the Land is to His people
remember St. Paul says that you are a Jew who is one inwardly
and that gentiles have been grafted on

I'm with you on this.

But those who insist on physical descent need to define it.

Open Heart · Jul 29, 2015

Rhamiel said:
Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, that is one inwardly; and the circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

There is nothing wrong with saying someone has the heart of a Jew. Paul is giving Gentiles, who must have at times felt excluded or second class, a boost to their self esteem. But it is figurative. Elsewhere throughout the NT, the word Jew is used in the normal sense, as in Jew and Greek being distinct (although equal.)

Rhamiel · Jul 29, 2015

Open Heart said:
Oh please. Let's not miss the point by being engrossed by the details. The point is that the promise is to physical descendants, not spiritual descendants.

being part of the Body of Christ is now summed up as a "detail"?

and you are being misleading by saying that you think it is promised to the "physical descendants"
as you believe a convert who has 0% Hebrew DNA is acceptable
but a Christian with 50% Hebrew DNA is not acceptable if their Dad instead of their Mom was the Jew

Open Heart · Jul 29, 2015

ebia said:
But those who insist on physical descent need to define it.

de·scent
dəˈsent/
noun

an action of moving downward, dropping, or falling.
"the plane had gone into a steep descent"
synonyms: dive, drop; More
the origin or background of a person in terms of family or nationality.
"American families of Hungarian descent"
synonyms: ancestry, parentage, ancestors, family, antecedents

Open Heart · Jul 29, 2015

Rhamiel said:
being part of the Body of Christ is now summed up as a "detail"?

Oh please, non sequitor. Read my remark again. I was perfectly clear.

Lavendar Frog · Jul 29, 2015

Open Heart said:
A re-established and self declared Israeli Sanhedrin, the religious High Court composed of 71 sages, has declared that it is putting Pope Francis on trial unless he retracts his statement that the Jews have no right to the land of Israel or to Jerusalem.
Read more at http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/4...d-sanhedrin-jewish-world/#UGCOf3lZ4MirU1v5.99

Uppity bunch ain't they.
They put Jesus on trial. Over 2000 years later they're still that type.
Can they crucify people in Israel today now that they have their own government in place and don't have to seek Rome's permission again?
Ironic isn't it? Over 2000 years ago Jews tried the son of God, found him guilty of blasphemy, and then asked Rome to kill him for them.
Now, the same little body of power wielders 2000+ years later think they'll try Christ's Vicar in a land they claimed as theirs. When people were already living there. Because it's the desert and looked like the right parcel of sand to set up camp and proceed to slaughter the natives in the name of the God of peace.

I doubt Francis is worried.

ebia · Jul 29, 2015

So if one has Jacob as an ansestor, that meets the condition.

Given which, and the various diasporas of Jews across the Middle East, that likely qualifies the vast majority - perhaps all - the people of that region

ebia · Jul 29, 2015

Open Heart said:
de·scent
dəˈsent/
noun

an action of moving downward, dropping, or falling.
"the plane had gone into a steep descent"
synonyms: dive, drop; More

the origin or background of a person in terms of family or nationality.
"American families of Hungarian descent"
synonyms: ancestry, parentage, ancestors, family, antecedents

.

Rhamiel · Jul 29, 2015

Romans 11:23
And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

St. Paul is talking about the "natural branches" (the Jews) who were "broken off"

they have been broken off because of unbelief
but if they repent and believe, God will "graft them in again"

so any Jew who rejects Christ has been "broken off"
how can they be counted as the "chosen people" or "Israel" if they have been "broken off"?

Open Heart · Jul 29, 2015

ebia said:
It's more than a detail; it's a crucial point.

You missed the point. Never mind.

Open Heart · Jul 29, 2015

Rhamiel said:
Zionists seem to see it as mostly biological but they seem to make exceptions for those who convert to Talmudic Judaism

Because that is how one is adopted into the Tribe. Once one is a Jew, there is no distinction between one and any other Jew. It is considered that all one's ancestry is now dropped, and that Abraham is now your father and Sarah is now your mother. This is why when you take your Hebrew name, it is ______ bar Avraham, or for women ______ bat Sarah.

Open Heart · Jul 29, 2015

Rhamiel said:
St. John the Baptist said that God could raise up "children of Abraham" from the very stones

Could, not will.

Sanhedrin plans to put Pope on trial

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