Sanhedrin plans to put Pope on trial

[Jan001]

The callings of God are to the covenant. The gifts of God are the Land forever, and his protection when the covenant is observed.

Acts 7:5
He gave him no inheritance here, not even enough ground to set his foot on. But God promised him [Abraham] that he and his descendants after him would possess the land, even though at that time Abraham had no child. NIV

I believe I have a God-given covenantal right to live in Israel and to own land in Israel if I so choose. I am a daughter of Abraham. I am not Jewish. The land was given to Abraham and all his descendants. I am a descendant of Abraham by adoption as a result of my faith in Jesus Christ. This gives me full legal rights to the land even though I was never Jewish and will not be converting to Judaism.

Romans 4:16
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. NIV

Galatians 3:7
Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. NIV

Regardless of my God-given legal right via adoption to own a bit of land and live in Israel, I am not allowed at present because of Israel's current ruling authorities.

The pope will soon officially recognize Palestinian Statehood. I believe he understands that the Christian Palestinians have a God-given legal right to live there because they are Abraham's adopted children.

http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2015/05/vatican-officially-recognizing-palestinian-state

 

[Open Heart]

I believe I have a God-given covenantal right to live in Israel and to own land in Israel if I so choose. I am a daughter of Abraham. I am not Jewish. The land was given to Abraham and all his descendants. I am a descendant of Abraham by adoption as a result of my faith in Jesus Christ. This gives me full legal rights to the land even though I was never Jewish and will not be converting to Judaism.

I understand your reasoning, but I do not accept it. You are adopted into the family of God, yes. That is not the same as being adopted into Israel. You are part of the commonwealth, Yes. That is also not the same as being part of Israel. You are spiritually circumcised. That is ALSO not the same as being part of Israel. You are simply not part of Israel. YOu are not a Jew, by your own admission, and the Land is not yours.

 

[BukiRob]

I understand your reasoning, but I do not accept it. You are adopted into the family of God, yes. That is not the same as being adopted into Israel. You are part of the commonwealth, Yes. That is also not the same as being part of Israel. You are spiritually circumcised. That is ALSO not the same as being part of Israel. You are simply not part of Israel. YOu are not a Jew, by your own admission, and the Land is not yours.

They are just pushing this replacement theology.... I don't get it at all.

 

[Open Heart]

They are just pushing this replacement theology.... I don't get it at all.

You and I are on the same page.

 

[Rhamiel]

They are just pushing this replacement theology.... I don't get it at all.

did Christ replace David as King?

it is not really a replacement, but rather a fulfillment

You and I are on the same page.

you might want to read more about what the Church had to day about herself

 

[Open Heart]

you might want to read more about what the Church had to day about herself

The Church sees herself as the NEW Israel. The New Israel doesn't replace Israel any more than New York replaces York.

 

[ebia]

The Church sees herself as the NEW Israel. The New Israel doesn't replace Israel any more than New York replaces York.

More like as the New Heavens and New Earth are to the old, or the New Jerusalem to the old

 

[Open Heart]

More like as the New Heavens and New Earth are to the old, or the New Jerusalem to the old

So now you are saying God has destroyed the Jews?

 

[ebia]

So now you are saying God has destroyed the Jews?

Did I say that?

 

[StephanieSomer]

it is my understanding that the promise of land in the Old Testament was always conditional?
you keep my commandments, you can have this land
when the Jewish people did not follow God, they would be invaded or exiled?

The promise was quoted in post #2. It was NOT conditional. It was a promise made by God to Abraham. His progeny are the rightful owners of the land, by God's own decree.

 

[Open Heart]

Did I say that?

Well you were comparing the New Israel with the New Jerusalem, which would make Israel like this Jerusalem, which will be destroyed at the end of the world IOW Israel would have been destroyed when the New Israel came into being. That's why I was asking you for clarification if you really meant that God had destroyed all the Jews? It doesn't make any sense to me either, but it did sound like that was what you were saying.

 

[ebia]

Well you were comparing the New Israel with the New Jerusalem, which would make Israel like this Jerusalem, which will be destroyed at the end of the world

Will it?

IOW Israel would have been destroyed when the New Israel came into being. That's why I was asking you for clarification if you really meant that God had destroyed all the Jews? It doesn't make any sense to me either, but it did sound like that was what you were saying.

 

[BukiRob]

Will it?

Well then, you MUST be a believer in Torah then right? Because during the Millenail reign we find the following will happen.

ISAIAH 2:2-4
2 And it shall come to pass at the end of the days, that the mountain of the house of Yahweh shall be established at the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Yahweh, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

(Zechariah 14:16-19) And it shall come to pass, that every one who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoever will not come up of all the families of the earth to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up, and does not come, who have no rain: there shall be the plague, with which Yahweh will smite the heathen who do not come up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that do not come up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

So in your view, the Torah is not for the gentile yet during the mellinial reign ALL mankind will will observe the Torah or Adonai will close up the heavens so that their will be no rain for those who fail to come up to Jerusalem

 

[pdudgeon]

Well then, you MUST be a believer in Torah then right? Because during the Millenail reign we find the following will happen.

ISAIAH 2:2-4
2 And it shall come to pass at the end of the days, that the mountain of the house of Yahweh shall be established at the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Yahweh, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

(Zechariah 14:16-19) And it shall come to pass, that every one who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoever will not come up of all the families of the earth to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up, and does not come, who have no rain: there shall be the plague, with which Yahweh will smite the heathen who do not come up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that do not come up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

So in your view, the Torah is not for the gentile yet during the mellinial reign ALL mankind will will observe the Torah or Adonai will close up the heavens so that their will be no rain for those who fail to come up to Jerusalem

please keep three things in mind;
First that this happens during the Millennial reign of Christ on earth.
That the purpose of such a reign is for all to recognize Jesus as King.
That sin is still present on earth, but it will be exposed for what it is, and dealt with by Jesus.

so no, the purpose is not to glorify the Torah itself or to glorify the feasts.
The purpose is to glorify the King, Jesus--the creator and author of the Torah--
who Himself epitomizes and fulfills all the feasts.

to do otherwise would be to glorify the creation instead of the creator.

 

[BukiRob]

please keep three things in mind;
First that this happens during the Millennial reign of Christ on earth.
That the purpose of such a reign is for all to recognize Jesus as King.
That sin is still present on earth, but it will be exposed for what it is, and dealt with by Jesus.

so no, the purpose is not to glorify the Torah itself or to glorify the feasts.
The purpose is to glorify the King, Jesus--the creator and author of the Torah--
who Himself epitomizes and fulfills all the feasts.

to do otherwise would be to glorify the creation instead of the creator.

We agree to disagree....

 

[pdudgeon]

Well you were comparing the New Israel with the New Jerusalem, which would make Israel like this Jerusalem, which will be destroyed at the end of the world IOW Israel would have been destroyed when the New Israel came into being. That's why I was asking you for clarification if you really meant that God had destroyed all the Jews? It doesn't make any sense to me either, but it did sound like that was what you were saying.

I had to read that a couple of times to understand what you were saying in turn, but I think that now I've got the picture of your argument.
In essence (please correct me if i am wrong in this) but when we who are not Jews speak of the New Jerusalem, the Jews and Messianics who are reading this exchange believe that we are referring to the Jewish people themselves. And thus the 'replacement theory" is born.

That is not the case, i assure you.
When we refer to the New Jerusalem, we are discussing the physical land and buildings of the city that is called Jerusalem , which shall be created by God in heaven, and subsequently brought by Him to the newly created new Earth which He also creates at the end of Revelation.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new Earth....." In other words, all traces of the physical and spiritual destruction that has been wrought by satan and his band of militants who were fighting against Christ and His army at the last stand will be erased by God.
In it's place will be the New Jerusalem located on the New Earth. Sin will not be known there, nor will the ravages of past death and destruction ever be present. Instead, everything and everyone will glorify God. Yes, 'everyone' includes both Jews and the Messianics.

God is fully able to preserve and protect the Jews and Messianics and Christians who are alive at the end of the age of the old earth and who have remained faithful to Him, and translate ALL of them in new bodies to the New Jerusalem.

So no people are being lost or replaced here.

 

[pdudgeon]

We agree to disagree....

and that's fine.
we understand in part down here anyway, so i'm perfectly fine with acknowledging that.

 

[Solace Girl]

This doesn't surprise me as the land has passed through so many hands throughout the centuries. As the Catholic Pope, it doesn't make sense that he would support the Jewish claim since Catholics held the land once (even if it was for a very short time in the grand scheme of history). The sun and moon will fall before God forgets the Jews, but the land itself is more symbolic at this point.

 

[Open Heart]

The sun and moon will fall before God forgets the Jews, but the land itself is more symbolic at this point.

It is already back in the hands of the Jews. Am Yisrael chai.

 

[Zach91]

I realize that I am a Protestant, and therefore a guest on this forum. With that being considered, I will try to be reserved and not debate Catholic theology. God gave the Jewish people the land of Israel. It is God's land, but he essentially leased it to Abraham and his descendants. Therefore the Jews have a right to Israel until Christ returns. Neither the Pope nor anyone else can take that away.