Mayorkas tells Border Patrol agents that ‘above 85%’ of illegal immigrants released into US: sources

[iluvatar5150]

That's sort of the conundrum I was describing.

On one hand, there are pragmatic cases to be made for both
A) limiting the flow of immigration and keep the the process more controlled and predictable

The problem with that is that the number of people trying to get here is overwhelming the resources we have. We can't really "limit the flow of immigration" unless we reduce the motivations that people have for coming here. Since one of the incentives is the ability to stay here while being stuck in bureaucratic limbo, a potential fix is speeding up that bureaucratic window, but beyond that, we'd have to fix central america and Venezuela, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

The only real way to make the process more controlled and predictable on our end is to staff way way up to increase the capacity of the bureaucracy.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The problem with that is that the number of people trying to get here is overwhelming the resources we have. We can't really "limit the flow of immigration" unless we reduce the motivations that people have for coming here. Since one of the incentives is the ability to stay here while being stuck in bureaucratic limbo, a potential fix is speeding up that bureaucratic window, but beyond that, we'd have to fix central america and Venezuela, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

The only real way to make the process more controlled and predictable on our end is to staff way way up to increase the capacity of the bureaucracy.

I think we have room to increase staffing to a point, but at a certain point we'll have to entertain other options.

We have a $25 Billion dollar per year budget for Border Protection.

Canada's budget for such matters is $1.5 billion over 5 years.


Like I noted before, I think we owe it to certain Central/South American countries to fix some of the issues we helped create. (that can be via some additional foreign aid or some sort of temporary subsidy arrangement, those decisions are above my pay grade)
But I do think some reasonable cutoffs need to be established for such endeavors.

I don't think it can be a permanent arrangement where "Because you wronged us back in the 70's and 80's, either give us money to fix all of our problems or forever deal with a never-ending flow of migrants"

 

[Belk]

America for Americans!

Unless they are Native Americans.

 

[jayem]

I know this post is tangential. The far larger problem--which hasn't been addressed in these discussions--is what to do with all the unauthorized immigrants who have been living in the US for years. Most of whom are working, and not otherwise involved in criminal activity. Latest numbers I've seen (from the Pew Research Organization) are from 2021. The best estimate is 10.5 million unauthorized immigrants--a number which is mostly stable since 2017. 7.8 million of whom are in the labor force. Undocumented immigrants comprise 22% of the total foreign-born population.

What we know about unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S.

A very reasonable, sensible, and humane attempt to deal with our millions of undocumented residents was introduced in the Senate in 2013. S.744 would have increased southern border security with construction of a physical barrier where practical, enhanced electronic monitoring, and enlarged the border patrol force. In return, it laid out a process by which long-term undocumented immigrants--with otherwise clean records-- would register, and be given provisional resident alien status. They could work legally, which means paying their share of FICA and other taxes. After 10 years, with good records and no felony convictions, they'd be granted permanent resident alien--"green card"--status. Or, they'd be eligible for the naturalization process in order to become citizens. The bill also included provisions from the DREAM Act, which provided a direct road to citizenship for foreign-born youth who've graduated from high school or college, or who have served in the US military. The link has many more details. S.744 passed the Senate 68-32. About 18 Republicans voted for it. Pres. Obama indicated he would sign it. But the Republican majority in the House claimed it's an amnesty, and wouldn't even give it a hearing. Of course, it's an amnesty. But one that must be earned over 10 years. What's wrong with that?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/744

Sorry for going off-topic.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

From what I recall, there were some credible allegations going around that she violated the terms of her visa when she came her which would’ve made her…. what’s the word???… it’s on the tip of my tongue…

Thank God for Marriage and Anchor Babies.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Also don't forget that he wanted to eliminate both the diversity lottery and family reunification visas, which of course happens to be the two main ways to immigrate besides employment visas.

I think family reunification visas were how his in-laws moved here, so idk, I can kind of understand his logic there.

 

[iluvatar5150]

And now these sketchy immigrants are being placed into schools while the students are being kicked out. American kids being kicked out of schools to shelter immigrants who are here claiming asylum.

The mayor said:

Adams and several other mayors of sanctuary cities, including Denver and Chicago, requested additional funding from the White House and Congress, as well as coordination with state and local governments, to deal with migrants. Denver has received more than 34,000 migrants, and Democratic Mayor Mike Johnston said “cities will have to look at dramatically reducing the amount of services we offer” due to the migrants.

Adams announced a 5% budget cut for all city services in September, but migrants are still straining the city resources, he said at a September event.

Entire NYC High School Goes Temporarily Virtual To Make Room For Roughly 2,000 Illegal Migrants

An entire New York high school will temporarily go virtual to make room for roughly 2,000 migrants, it announced Tuesday.

dailycaller.com

I skipped over this post before because I assumed that the school was actually teaching the migrants and kids were actually getting stuck at home for a while.

Now I see that it was for one single day so that these people could ride out a storm indoors.

Is that really what you’re complaining about? That kids have to go to online school for one day, so a bunch of homeless migrants can stay dry for a day?

 

[Ana the Ist]

From the article:

"What is a magnet is the fact that the time in between an encounter of an individual at the border and their final ruling in their immigration case can sometimes take six or more years. That is a magnet, which is why precisely why I am working with Republicans and Democrats in the United States Senate to deliver a solution for the American people, to deliver a fix to an immigration system that everyone agrees is broken, and that is long overdue," he said.​

​

Why aren't Republicans hammering on this? Why aren't they trying to beef up the asylum/immigration courts to handle more cases and reduce the bottlenecks?

Because it's not a solution.

I don't know how you think this magically happens...perhaps there's some magic wand that gets waved and suddenly immigration courts quadruple and deportation officials quintuple, and this long and wasteful process suddenly becomes quick and efficient.

How about this instead...crossing the border illegally is a felony, and a minimum 2 years in jail, and if you're lucky enough to have your asylum case heard before that and you win...maybe you get out.

See...that's a non-explanation of the problem. Joe Biden isn't deporting most of these folks. In fact, he told the people who do the deporting...to not do any deporting.

ICE deported less than 5% of all migrants encountered in 2023 – far fewer than total sent back under Trump

In its 2023 annual report released last week, ICE readily noted its number of expulsions was double those of the previous year, but under Joe Biden’s presidency the agency is deporting far fe…

www.google.com

They deported less than 200k people entering in 2023.

There needs to be a complete reexamination of the issue at this point. Painting right wing conservatives as racists or xenophobic is as dumb as them painting anyone on the left as a "marxist" who "hates the US" and wants it destroyed.

I can certainly understand why people see it those ways...those people do exist on both sides. That doesn't address the problem though...and if you don't understand its a problem at this point...you probably shouldn't be voting. I could go to third world nations and ask the uneducated about what would happen if 10 million people crossed their borders in a space of 5 years or so and they could rattle off a realistic list of economic, crime, educational, cultural, and all sorts of other issues that would be problems.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The problem with that is that the number of people trying to get here is overwhelming the resources we have. We can't really "limit the flow of immigration" unless we reduce the motivations that people have for coming here. Since one of the incentives is the ability to stay here while being stuck in bureaucratic limbo, a potential fix is speeding up that bureaucratic window, but beyond that, we'd have to fix central america and Venezuela, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

The only real way to make the process more controlled and predictable on our end is to staff way way up to increase the capacity of the bureaucracy.

It's nice you seem to understand the drain on resources happening...good for you.

Recall that under Trump...the deportation phase of rounding people up resulted in human chains around the illegals and folks demanding they be allowed to stay? That has to end...and it doesn't matter if you've been here 3, or 5, or 8 years...it's back to your homeland you go.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Because it's not a solution.

Why isn't it part of a solution? People follow incentives. Trump was a jerk, and migrants thought they'd be treated harshly if they came here, so they stopped coming here as much when he was running things. Biden is perceived as nicer, so they have more incentive to come.

Bureaucratic backlog enabling them to run free temporarily is another incentive.

I don't know how you think this magically happens...perhaps there's some magic wand that gets waved and suddenly immigration courts quadruple and deportation officials quintuple, and this long and wasteful process suddenly becomes quick and efficient.

Obviously it would take time to build up those resources, but even absent the recent-ish surges, they could probably use it. I've never heard of our immigration courts being described as speedy.

How about this instead...crossing the border illegally is a felony, and a minimum 2 years in jail, and if you're lucky enough to have your asylum case heard before that and you win...maybe you get out.

That would also address the incentives.

See...that's a non-explanation of the problem. Joe Biden isn't deporting most of these folks. In fact, he told the people who do the deporting...to not do any deporting.

Deporting is something you can only do once they've gotten here. I'm talking about reducing the incentives to come here in the first place.

There needs to be a complete reexamination of the issue at this point. Painting right wing conservatives as racists or xenophobic is as dumb as them painting anyone on the left as a "marxist" who "hates the US" and wants it destroyed.

Wanting strong borders and a well-managed immigration system is fine, but it doesn't take a lot of unpacking to find xenophobia, racism, and other distasteful attitudes underpinning a lot of the furor. Why did the Trump administration slash the refugee cap by over 80%? Why did he tell The Squad to go back to their home countries? Why is he out there trying to use his birther arguments against Nikki Haley? It's not because he thinks that's not going to go over well with his audience.

 

[rjs330]

Being released into the country is roughly analogous to being out on bail. You still have a trial/hearing to decide your ultimate fate. What I’m arguing for is more staff so folks are “on bail” for less time. You seem to think that’s a bad thing.

These are not legal citizens. And so many of them disappear into the country never to be seen again. They shouldn't be "out on bail". If be happy to spend th money if it was to hold the people there until they were fully vetted and processed.

No, I meant refugees, which is why I made the distinction you left out. There’s a cap on the number of refugees we allow in every year, while afaik there is no cap on asylum grants. Trump slashed the refugee cap.

Well something needs to be cut. Which do you want? Asylees or refugees. We can't afford both.

We have room.

No we don't. Cities and states are having serious issues with these folks. They don't have housing for them, or good jobs for them. Most of these people are very poor and not skilled. We have our own poor that can't afford housing and that we are spending 75% of our budget on now.

I say we need to shut the spicket off. Fix our immigration laws to make it a much easier and less costly to come here to live. The process is too hard and complicated and costly. Secondly no one coming here should be provided welfare type services until they are a citizen. We could have employers who sponsor people if they are in need of workers and can't find Americans to do the job. We need a data base if all the immigrants who are here legally so employers can verify their identity and legality before hiring them. And if an employer hired illegals then they should be fined heavily and eventually lose their business license if they continue.

 

[stevil]

Why aren't Republicans hammering on this? Why aren't they trying to beef up the asylum/immigration courts to handle more cases and reduce the bottlenecks?

Probably because an overloaded immigration and asylum system means that Republicans can campaign on it.
When they are in opposition, right wing media will run it, and hype it up, and when they are in power, right wing media will down play it.

So just like being the party of "Law and Order", the party of "Fiscal responsibility" they are the party of "Secure Borders" it doesn't matter if its true or not, the party can campaign on it, and the media outlets like Fox News can build up a narrative on it.

 

[rjs330]

Why isn't it part of a solution? People follow incentives. Trump was a jerk, and migrants thought they'd be treated harshly if they came here, so they stopped coming here as much when he was running things. Biden is perceived as nicer, so they have more incentive to come.

Bureaucratic backlog enabling them to run free temporarily is another incentive.




Obviously it would take time to build up those resources, but even absent the recent-ish surges, they could probably use it. I've never heard of our immigration courts being described as speedy.



That would also address the incentives.




Deporting is something you can only do once they've gotten here. I'm talking about reducing the incentives to come here in the first place.



Wanting strong borders and a well-managed immigration system is fine, but it doesn't take a lot of unpacking to find xenophobia, racism, and other distasteful attitudes underpinning a lot of the furor. Why did the Trump administration slash the refugee cap by over 80%? Why did he tell The Squad to go back to their home countries? Why is he out there trying to use his birther arguments against Nikki Haley? It's not because he thinks that's not going to go over well with his audience.

Perceptions can be important in this issue. And being perceived as less accepting is a good thing. As we saw it lessened the flow. Not only is Biden nicer he is also far weaker on the issue. He is allowing the flood and encouraging it.

The courts are not speedy due to the process itself and what it entails. It's not just the courts itself that is the issue. If we didn't let so many in we wouldn't have the backlog. It ALL starts with the border. Only allow in the number of people that can be processed with what we have. Put the process at the border. You don't get let loose until you are processed. You do t get in at all until there is room for you.

Reducing the incentives is what Trump was with ng in and everyone including you hated the man for it. But I do agree that the government incentives need to end. People coming here are more than welcome if they come here to work and be citizens. That's why I'm all for businesses sponsoring jobs when they can't find Americans to do them. That way the immigrant has a job when they come.

Yes it does take a lot of unpacking to find all those negative stereotypes that the left lives to toss at anyone who doesn't want a flood of people coming in. If you look at the stats of people who are against what is happening now you would have to paint most Americans with your xenophobic, racist brush. Most of us could care less about the color of your skin. What we care about is the inability of America to handle the influx, provide for them and making sure they are a right fit for this country and want to be productive functioning citizens that are not a drain on our resources or criminals who would harm Americans or other immigrants.

And by the way this isn't a Trump thread. Bash the man on the threads that are about him.

 

[rjs330]

Probably because an overloaded immigration and asylum system means that Republicans can campaign on it.
When they are in opposition, right wing media will run it, and hype it up, and when they are in power, right wing media will down play it.

So just like being the party of "Law and Order", the party of "Fiscal responsibility" they are the party of "Secure Borders" it doesn't matter if its true or not, the party can campaign on it, and the media outlets like Fox News can build up a narrative on it.

I disagree with the campaign accusation that they are unwilling to do it for campaign reasons. Remember when Trump and the Republicans tried to do something and the Democrats and the left went nuts about it?

Now I do agree that the Republicans have done little to nothing to streamline the process or make significant changes in the laws around immigration. We could make coming here illegally a felony. We could create in the law the right to limit the number of immigrants, asylees, and refugees. We could streamline the process to come here legally. We could create databases for businesses to determine if an employee is a legal employee. We could fine them and remove their licenses. We could have businesses sponsor workers to come and work for them when Americans don't want to. We could build a border wall and have heavy security on the border. But the moment we try anything the left starts hollering about racism, brown people and xenophobia.

 

[rjs330]

Since one of the incentives is the ability to stay here while being stuck in bureaucratic limbo, a potential fix is speeding up that bureaucratic window, but beyond that, we'd have to fix central america and Venezuela, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

A better fix is to not let them in in the first place until they are processed. They stay where they are and wait their turn.

 

[rjs330]

Unless they are Native Americans.

That's nonsense. Native Americans can live wherever and do whatever they like in America. You know they are not forced to live in the reservation right?

 

[rjs330]

I skipped over this post before because I assumed that the school was actually teaching the migrants and kids were actually getting stuck at home for a while.

Now I see that it was for one single day so that these people could ride out a storm indoors.

Is that really what you’re complaining about? That kids have to go to online school for one day, so a bunch of homeless migrants can stay dry for a day?

You totally miss the big picture. Schools were not built to house migrants. They were built to educate kids. Why were the migrants there living in tents in the first place? Because we let them in with no place to go. That's the real problem. Continuing to let them in will always create problems. I mean in this situation why not close the schools to let all the homeless Americans stay there during a storm? There's lots of storms where the American homeless have to tough it out. No one is closing the schools down for them?

No these people should not have been there in the first place. That's the larger issue.

 

[stevil]

We could have businesses sponsor workers to come and work for them when Americans don't want to. We could build a border wall and have heavy security on the border. But the moment we try anything the left starts hollering about racism, brown people and xenophobia.

Well, the wall is horrendously expensive. And it was touted as being a solution to drugs, but from what I gather the vast majority of the drugs come in via ports of entry.

Ripping kids away from parents, shipping them across the country and not then knowing how to ever return them to the parents is shocking stuff.
Partitioning in court to not have to provide soap or toothbrushes for people locked up in detention centres for multiple months is pretty inhumane.

You need solutions that are practical and humane and address the issues. If you have an issue like "drug trafficking" you should do an analysis, and find out the biggest bang for your buck.

Trump's idea of shooting immigrants in the legs or putting crocodiles in moats are ridiculous. Putting razor wire in rivers is down right evil, and murderous. Get people caught up in wire while they are in water and causing them to drown. These people aren't deserving of death. They are desperate and trying to seek help.

Trump's characterisations of Mexicans being drug dealers or of Muslims as being terrorists is about racism.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Why isn't it part of a solution?

Because if a Democrat is in office, they aren't being deported.

I'm sorry, but that appears to be the problem. We can talk about how it became a problem...because we only need to go back pre-Trump to Obama and see that he was in fact deporting illegals. Lots of them. However, Trump was a 1 platform president (essentially) and it was a "fix the problem of illegal border crossings" platform (essentially).
I know it sounds stupid...but for years the left took the opposite position.

1. It's not a problem.
2. If it was a problem, it's Trump’s fault.

Both 1 and 2 are blatantly false. I understand people got this message thousands of times....but it's false.

Bureaucratic backlog enabling them to run free temporarily is another incentive.

Let's imagine we somehow speed up the toilet they all get flushed down....

Do they get deported at the end of the process? Are there penalties for repeat offenders?

If not...all you're doing by speeding up the process is massively incentivizing everything.

That would also address the incentives.

That's the penalty in Mexico if I'm not mistaken. Of course, that's for white people going south...brown people going north are now a cartel boom industry.

Deporting is something you can only do once they've gotten here. I'm talking about reducing the incentives to come here in the first place.

The incentive is this...

Neighbors Form Human Chain to Block ICE from Detaining Father and Son: They Were 'Bullying' Them

"They came to the wrong community on the wrong day," one neighbor said

people.com

See these idiots? See what they're doing? They prevented these people from being deported.

We have to eliminate a lot of stupid people from this country before we can remove the incentive. What do you propose? Obstruction? Arrest everyone in the human chain?

As long as 35-50% of the nation is dumb enough to let them stay...or worse, demand they be allowed to stay...speeding up the process does nothing.

Wanting strong borders and a well-managed immigration system is fine,

Ok.

but it doesn't take a lot of unpacking to find xenophobia, racism, and other distasteful attitudes underpinning a lot of the furor.

Let's pretend they're all racists and xenophobic and bigots and whatever...

Is it possible that for bad reasons they've identified a real problem with real devastating effects on things like poverty, crime, and educational/healthcare opportunities for US citizens?

Because I'll agree...there are bigots there that don't really understand the issue.

But also...there's stupid everywhere in this country. Those folks forming a human chain probably don't realize the connection between illegal immigrants and....idk...identity theft....

Op-Ed: Feds ignore illegal alien ID theft plaguing Americans as U.S. coffers fill

The historic surge of illegal immigrants across America’s southern border is fueling a hidden crime spree few in Washington seem willing or able to address: widespread identity theft by migrants

www.thecentersquare.com

Right? They're clueless. Or how about organized crime?

Michigan: Criminal gangs from Central and South America are burglarizing 'high-end homes' - Voz Media

Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchardsaid the robbers are "folks coming from outside of Michigan" looking for "jewelry and money."

voz.us

Human trafficking...

6th-grade teacher, college professor among 160 arrested in Ohio human trafficking bust

In addition to the arrests, "Operation Buyer’s Remorse" identified more than 100 human trafficking survivors who are now being connected to services.

www.usatoday.com

Shall I continue? I'll agree there are racists and bigots on one side of the argument. Can you concede there are piles of stupid drooling fools on the other side who think this is all about bigotry and that's why they oppose meaningful reform?

 

[Ana the Ist]

All I'm saying here @iluvatar5150 is that it's entirely possible to have bad intentions and be 100% correct about a problem and it's solution and it's also possible to have good intentions and be 100% wrong about a problem and it's solutions....

Because politics are a pragmatic and practical endeavor, not a moral one. Nobody will ever be a morally good person because of their politics.