You seem to forget the the Holy Spirit did not descend upon him until his baptism. He was not exalted until AFTER his resurrection. Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Co 15:27 For He hath put all things under is feet. But when He saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under him. Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognised the mysterious and undefined existence of the Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One, and the Apostles' Creed, which is the earliest of the formulated I beg to disagree. Origen rejected the two-stage theory of the Apologists and maintained the eternal generation of the Son. But to reconcile this with a strict monotheism, he resorted to another philosophical framework, a Platonic hierarchical framework, and ended up by making the Son and the Holy Spirit not precisely creatures but 'diminished gods,' inferior to the Father who alone was God in the strict sense. The Post-Nicene Phase
Num 11:16 The Lord said to Moses: “Bring me seventy of Israel’s elders who are known to you as leaders and officials among the people. Have them come to the tent of meeting, that they may stand there with you. I will come down and speak with you there, and[n] I will take some of the power of the Spirit that is on you and put it on them. [/b]They will share the burden of the people with you so that you will not have to carry it alone. The idea of a co-equal Trinity, however, offers a reasonable means of expressing the inexpressible;but it must not be forgotten that Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word " Trinity" appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan.[/u]
Origen rejected the two-stage theory of the Apologists and maintained the eternal generation of the Son. But to reconcile this with a strict monotheism, he resorted to another philosophical framework, a Platonic hierarchical framework, and ended up by making the Son and the Holy Spirit not precisely creatures but 'diminished gods,' inferior to the Father who alone was God in the strict sense. The Post-Nicene Phase
If he were not an angel, the only thing left is a creature, that is man. You seem to forget the the Holy Spirit did not descend upon him until his baptism. He was not exalted until AFTER his resurrection. Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Co 15:27 For He hath put all things under is feet. But when He saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under him. Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognised the mysterious and undefined existence of the Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One, and the Apostles' Creed, which is the earliest of the formulated. Just a reminder, humans are mortal and do not pre-exist. Christ did not pre-exist as an entity but only as the foundation for the future plan of God, which God created as a creature and then bestowed upon him the Holy Spirit after Baptism and RESSURECTION.Huh? I was not born in 1848. I did not pre-exist. Why, Are you a Christadelphian? I do consider myself as 'a brother of Christ' but I do not belong to any organized religion. I am a representative of the teachings of Christ and believe in the resurrection, the return of Christ to Earth, and in the Kingdom of God to be established here on earth at his second coming.
Christadelphian [ ?krist?'delfe?n ] NOUN a member of a Christian sect, founded in the US in 1848, that claims to return to the beliefs and practices of the earliest disciples and holds that Christ will return in power to set up a worldwide theocracy beginning at Jerusalem. OxfordDictionaries ? © Oxford University Press
see all the above. But I invite you to partake and to 'Listen carefully to Me'.
Isaiah 55:1 "Ho! Everyone who thirsts, Come to the waters; And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat. Yes, come, buy wine and milk Without money and without price.
(2) Why do you spend money for what is not bread, And your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, And let your soul delight itself in abundance. (3) Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you The sure mercies of David.
That is not what Walter Tyndales Bible says:1. John 1:1: says that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.
This shows the son of God's divinity in the beginning with God at creation for God has no beginning or ending. For those who believe God was not divine and not God at all are proven wrong by the fact that this verse says he was God no matter what time frame they want to put it on.
John 1:14: the word became flesh and dwelt among men. The word becoming flesh is not because he was intended to be only human, but it does imply he was of a different nature which was deity. . Jerry kelso
Jn 1:1In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that wordHis subjection to the father was not about being inferior but in his role in the plan of redemption
, not to mention also the true context of the book of John which shows proof of Jesus being divine. ? Jerry kelso
Jn 1:1In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word
THE NEW TESTAMENT W TYNDALE Bible
SUMMARY
In the New Testament the eternity and divinity of the Son and the Holy Spirit were indicated clearly enough, but nowhere formally declared. There was no formal doctrine about Christ's origin, nature, and relation to the Father and to the Holy Spirit. There was no formal doctrine about a triune God.
That is not what Walter Tyndales Bible says:
The Gospel of St. John John 1:1 page 119 TYNDALES BIBLE
1:1 In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word. 1:2 The same was in the beginning with god.
1:3 All things were made by it, and without it was made no thing, that made was. 1:18 No man saw god at any time. The only begotten son, which is in the father’s bosom, hath declared him.
Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto dieties, we know that a diety is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, on behalf of whom are all things, and on behalf of whom we live.
This particular God—the God of Israel—is holy, that is, He alone is transcendentally different, superior, and separate. John W. Ritenbaugh
Jn 1:1In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word
he-man,
1. The translation of John 1:1 can only coincide with Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth and in Genesis 1:26 let us make man in our image and in Genesis 4 I believe that says we must drive man out of the garden lest he eat of the tree of life and live forever in his sin with no hope of restoration. These are accounts of plural in the "Elohim" which shows compound unity.
2. Hebrews 1:9-10 shows that God told his God his throne would be forever and that he was the one who anointed him which shows compound unity in the God head and that the son was in subjection accordingly to the father in the whole plan of redemption for it is God the father who gave the son the throne and kingdom and then the kingdom will be given back to the father so God can be all in all. This proves your theory about the doctrine of subjection is not biblical.
3. The reason for the one God scriptures is all about unity and the number quantity was all about the heathens understanding there is only one God above all that is unified. The false Gods were for never in complete unity about everything and God wanted to distinguish and for heathens to understand this. It was never meant to show that God is one with 3 manifestations or just human and not deity. The bible doesn't agree with those doctrines across the whole of all the scriptures on the given subject. Jerry kelso
4. Christ's origin was before Abraham was, I am. His nature was to become man and his nature and not that of the angels. He was to be the suffering savior so he could identify with man and be the mediator. His relation to the father was about being the son in his role as Messiah and not the in depth facts about his role in the Godhead before he came to earth. The same with the Holy Spirit was about his role as messiah of which he had the Spirit without measure and declared later that he would go away and send the comforter to take his place and help them to remember things he said that they needed to know. God is a God of order and not confusion and his divinity of his role in the old testament was not what the role of the Messiahship was about.
- The argument of no formal declaration has no bearing to make the Godhead 3 in 1 valid. It is shown throughout the scriptures in compound unity and that they interact together in perfect harmony. Jerry kelso
THE NEW TESTAMENT W TYNDALE Bible
SUMMARY
In the New Testament the eternity and divinity of the Son and the Holy Spirit were indicated clearly enough, but nowhere formally declared. There was no formal doctrine about Christ's origin, nature, and relation to the Father and to the Holy Spirit. There was no formal doctrine about a triune God.
Origen rejected the Apologists two-stage theory and maintained the eternal generation of the Son. But to reconcile this with a strict monotheism, he resorted to another philosophical framework, a Platonic hierarchical framework, and ended up by making the Son and the Holy Spirit not precisely creatures but 'diminished gods,' inferior to the Father who alone was God in the strict sense.
Post Nicene Period, The Triune God
The Gospel of St. John John 1:1 page 119 TYNDALES BIBLEThat's right....no "formal" or official declaration. That came with the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople. But if we want to ask if it was believed earlier, that's a different matter.
Then go to the proper place to discuss JW'; CHRISTADELPHIANS, MORMONS, etc. I was warned not to discuss other religions in this forum. There is a proper place to discuss other religions. In the meantime:We are familiar with the[size=5=[b] Jehovah's Witness[/size][/b] understanding of the matter. I don't think much is going to be settled by you replaying it for us one more time.
Jn 1:1In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word
THE NEW TESTAMENT W TYNDALE Bible
SUMMARY
In the New Testament the eternity and divinity of the Son and the Holy Spirit were indicated clearly enough, but nowhere formally declared. There was no formal doctrine about Christ's origin, nature, and relation to the Father and to the Holy Spirit. There was no formal doctrine about a triune God.
Origen rejected the Apologists two-stage theory and maintained the eternal generation of the Son. But to reconcile this with a strict monotheism, he resorted to another philosophical framework, a Platonic hierarchical framework, and ended up by making the Son and the Holy Spirit not precisely creatures but 'diminished gods,' inferior to the Father who alone was God in the strict sense.
Post Nicene Period, The Triune God
Oh? Really? I thought immortality meant you can never die? Didn't Jesus DIE? 1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.You can say there was no eternal generation of the son as far as his human self and role for he was not born until the accepted time of a woman made under the law. Galatians 4:4.
He did exist as God in the old testament as can be seen in creation, in his visit Abraham and directing Israel throughout the old testament. Now you may think it is impossible for him to be an entity especially like God who is immortal and become a human being. This is why the kenosis of Christ is important to understand and had to be done away with for nothing is impossible with God.
Ge 1:1 In the beginning God formed the firmament and the land. Jn 1:1 In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word 1:2 The same was in the beginning with god. THE NEW TESTAMENT W TYNDALE BibleJesus is called the Word and he was with God the father and he was the Word who was God as well as the father. He was also Yahweh in the old testament. Read the book of Joshua which means savior.
Duh? The word ἐκένωσεν is used in Philippians 2:7, "[Jesus] made himself nothing..." http://www.definitions.net/definition/kenosis Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, G2758 and the promise made of none effect: deprive of force, render vain, useless, of no effect, to make void void= Ρημ. καθιστώ άκυρο//αποβάλλω, εκκενώνωThe only way you could disprove is to try and disprove compound unity and the plural of Elohim in scripture. It can't be done. Jerry kelso
Oh? Really? I thought immortality meant you can never die? Didn't Jesus DIE? 1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
At first the Christian Faith was not Trinitarian. . It was not so in the apostolic and sub-apostolic ages, as reflected in the New Testament and other early Christian writings. The Encyclopedia of Religion And Ethics.
Theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity. The Encyclopedia of Religion[size-4] The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament. . . "is not. . . directly and immediately the word of God."[/size] The New Catholic Encyclopedia There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence of a Trinity within the Godhead. . . Even to see in the Old Testament suggestions or foreshadowings or 'veiled signs' of the trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers. Edmund Fortman The "Triune God"
Ge 1:1 In the beginning God formed the firmament and the land. Jn 1:1 In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word 1:2 The same was in the beginning with god. THE NEW TESTAMENT W TYNDALE Bible
He created the world by the word of His mouth (Ps. xxxiii. 6, 9). Natural sequences are His work (Jer. v. 22, 24; Ps. lxxiv. 15-17). He maintains the order of nature (Ps. cxlvii. 8-9, 16-18; Neh. ix. 6). He does not need the offerings of men, because "the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof" (Ps. xxiv. 1, 4, 7-13; compare Isa. i. 11; Jer. vii. 21-23; Micah vi. 6-8).
Nothing is affirmed of His substantial nature. The phrase "spirit of God" ("rua? Elohim") merely describes the divine energy, and is not to be taken as equivalent to the phrase "God is a spirit," viz., an assertion concerning His incorporeality (Zech. iv. 6; Num. xiv. 22; Isa. xl. 13). He can not, however, be likened to any thing (Ex. xx. 4-5; Isa. xl. 18) or to any person (Jer. x. 6-7). No form is seen when God speaks (Deut. iv. 15)
Duh? The word ἐκένωσεν is used in Philippians 2:7, "[Jesus] made himself nothing..." http://www.definitions.net/definition/kenosis Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, G2758 and the promise made of none effect: deprive of force, render vain, useless, of no effect, to make void void= Ρημ. καθιστώ άκυρο//αποβάλλω, εκκενώνω
empty= ρήμ. αδειάζω 11 καὶ that every tongue should confess that Yahshua Anointed is Master, to the glory of Elohim the Father.
9 Wherefore Elohim also hath highly exalted him, καὶ given him name which is above every name:
http://koine-bible.com/?wysijap=subscriptions
The word Elohim is the plural of El (or possibly Eloah) and is the first name of God given in the Old Testament: “In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth, (Gen. 1:1) The form of the word Elohim, with the ending -im, is plural and masculine, but the construction is usually singular, i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective when referring to the Hebrew god, but reverts to its normal plural when used of heathen divinities (Psalms 96:5; 97:7). The results of Source Criticism first proposed two authors (or sources) for the Pentateuch supposedly distinguishable by the use of the terms Yahweh and Elohim. Two additional sources were later proposed as P for Priestly, and D for Deuteronomic resulting in the JEDP theory of authorship, most notably associated with German scholar Julius Wellhausen (1844-1918).
•JEDP Theory (basictheology.com)
•Pentateuchal Studies Today by Gordon Wenham (1996)
•The JEDP Theory from Wikipedia
http://www.theopedia.com/Elohim
Before the Nicene Creed: Since Christianity is a religion derived from Judaism, it should not be a surprise that from the beginning it has been adamantly monotheistic. The early 2nd century Apologists like Justin Martyr rejected Marcionite and Gnostic dualism wholeheartedly and asserted the oneness of God in strong, almost Platonistic language.1. Immortality is of God alone says Timothy.
The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking, it occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient Semitic language. The masculine plural ending does not mean gods when referring to the true God of Israel, since the name is mainly used with singular verb forms and with adjectives and pronouns in the singular (e.g. see Gen. 1:26). The word Elohim is the plural of El (or possibly Eloah) and is the first name of God given in the Old Testament: “In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth, (Gen. 1:1) The form of the word Elohim, with the ending -im, is plural and masculine, but the construction is usually singular, , i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective when referring to the Hebrew god, but reverts to its normal plural when used of heathen divinities (Psalms 96:5; 97:7). In a view common among both secular scholars and polytheists, the word's plurality is seen as reflective of an early Judaic polytheism. Originally meaning "the gods", or the "sons of El," the supreme being, the word may have been singularized by later monotheist priests who sought to replace worship of the many gods with their own patron god YHWH alone.To make the argument that the construction of Elohim is singular is ridiculous and improper hermeneutics based on not rightly dividing the word.
He created the world by the word of His mouth (Ps. xxxiii. 6, 9). Natural sequences are His work (Jer. v. 22, 24; Ps. lxxiv. 15-17). He maintains the order of nature (Ps. cxlvii. 8-9, 16-18; Neh. ix. 6). He does not need the offerings of men, because "the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof" (Ps. xxiv. 1, 4, 7-13; compare Isa. i. 11; Jer. vii. 21-23; Micah vi. 6-8).4. He created the world by the word of his mouth. In Hebrews 11 says that he created the world by faith. He didn't need faith but faith as in believing. Throughout the old testament God the father is seen as the architect of the plan and the son who was Yahweh was the executor of the plan
Nothing is affirmed of His substantial nature. The phrase "spirit of God" ("rua? Elohim") merely describes the divine energy, and is not to be taken as equivalent to the phrase "God is a spirit," viz., an assertion concerning His incorporeality (Zech. iv. 6; Num. xiv. 22; Isa. xl. 13). He can not, however, be likened to any thing (Ex. xx. 4-5; Isa. xl. 18) or to any person (Jer. x. 6-7). No form is seen when God speaks (Deut. iv. 15)5. To say that the Spirit is just the Spirit of God and not a real entity is a metaphorical mess and takes the reality out of the meaning of a person that has roles and functions that he performs.
Huh? Elohim is plural for angels, whom GOD commanded to help with the creation, not a mortal man like Jesus. Isa 54:16 Lo, I--I have prepared an artisan, Blowing on a fire of coals, And bringing out an instrument for his work, And I have prepared a destroyer [angel of the Lord] to destroy.6. I would like to know why you want to believe that Jesus was only human and not deity. Jerry Kelso
Before the Nicene Creed: Since Christianity is a religion derived from Judaism, it should not be a surprise that from the beginning it has been adamantly monotheistic. The early 2nd century Apologists like Justin Martyr rejected Marcionite and Gnostic dualism wholeheartedly and asserted the oneness of God in strong, almost Platonistic language.
Christ himself revealed the coming Spirit of God who also possessed divine attributes and too was spoken of as distinct from the Father. These statements of Jesus, along with the teaching of the epistles of Paul and John, presented a unique theological challenge to the early Christians. Speaking of Trinitarianism in the ante-Nicene period is somewhat anachronistic, since the word Trinity (Lat. trinitas) was first coined by the Latin father Tertullian in the 2nd century, and the Trinitarian doctrine was not solidified as dogma until the early 4th century. However, Roger Olson reminds us that "Christian belief in God as triune did not arise in the fourth century with Roman emporer Constantine and the Christian bishops that he dominated. Belief that it arose then as part of a vague paganizing or Hellenizing of Christianity is a caricature often promoted . Roger Olson, ]u]The Mosaic of Christian Belief,[/u] p. 135 The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking, it occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient Semitic language. The masculine plural ending does not mean gods when referring to the true God of Israel, since the name is mainly used with singular verb forms and with adjectives and pronouns in the singular (e.g. see Gen. 1:26). The word Elohim is the plural of El (or possibly Eloah) and is the first name of God given in the Old Testament: “In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth, (Gen. 1:1) The form of the word Elohim, with the ending -im, is plural and masculine, but the construction is usually singular, , i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective when referring to the Hebrew god, but reverts to its normal plural when used of heathen divinities (Psalms 96:5; 97:7). In a view common among both secular scholars and polytheists, the word's plurality is seen as reflective of an early Judaic polytheism. Originally meaning "the gods", or the "sons of El," the supreme being, the word may have been singularized by later monotheist priests who sought to replace worship of the many gods with their own patron god YHWH alone.
He created the world by the word of His mouth (Ps. xxxiii. 6, 9). Natural sequences are His work (Jer. v. 22, 24; Ps. lxxiv. 15-17). He maintains the order of nature (Ps. cxlvii. 8-9, 16-18; Neh. ix. 6). He does not need the offerings of men, because "the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof" (Ps. xxiv. 1, 4, 7-13; compare Isa. i. 11; Jer. vii. 21-23; Micah vi. 6-8).
Nothing is affirmed of His substantial nature. The phrase "spirit of God" ("rua? Elohim") merely describes the divine energy, and is not to be taken as equivalent to the phrase "God is a spirit," viz., an assertion concerning His incorporeality (Zech. iv. 6; Num. xiv. 22; Isa. xl. 13). He can not, however, be likened to any thing (Ex. xx. 4-5; Isa. xl. 18) or to any person (Jer. x. 6-7). No form is seen when God speaks (Deut. iv. 15) http://www.theopedia.com/Elohim
Nothing is affirmed of His substantial nature. The phrase "spirit of God" ("rua? Elohim") merely describes the divine energy, and is not to be taken as equivalent to the phrase "God is a spirit," viz., an assertion concerning His incorporeality (Zech. iv. 6; Num. xiv. 22; Isa. xl. 13). He can not, however, be likened to any thing (Ex. xx. 4-5; Isa. xl. 18) or to any person (Jer. x. 6-7). No form is seen when God speaks (Deut. iv. 15) Huh? Elohim is plural for angels, whom GOD commanded to help with the creation, not a mortal man like Jesus. Isa 54:16 Lo, I--I have prepared an artisan, Blowing on a fire of coals, And bringing out an instrument for his work, And I have prepared a destroyer [angel of the Lord] to destroy.
Exo 14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:
Num 22:31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.
He was only human when God created him as a mortal, without immortality. Anyone who has immortality cannot die, as Jesus did as a mortal. People do not have immortality in the second death. 2Th 1:9 who shall suffer justice--destruction age-during--from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,
At least you have revealed the truth and that is the truth is found in the scripture and the scriptures show that the Father is neither person or originated, and the Son was created by God at his birth from his mother, and was separate person and the Holy Spirit is not a person, it is the power that comes from the Father.2. The truth is found in the scripture and the scriptures show that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are three separate persons ... The Father is called God and the Son is called God and the Holy Spirit is called God. Oneness doctrine is not scriptural or logical because it prohibits compound unity. There are also no references of him being a manifestation.
It has been made VERY Clear to you that the topic is to be discussed under another thread. SO STOP disobeying the RULES> I am not associated with any organized group, other than what the disciples taught in the scriptures through Jesus. Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;3. If you believe that Christ wasn't divine because he died you must be a Christadelphian or something to that effect because they believe Jesus was only human and not deity. God said he had a body prepared for him and it was human and when Christ died his divine nature didn't die because his spirit lived on.
All spirits return to God, as did the breath of life from Jesus, ‘Mr 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus shouted for help with a great voice, Eloi, Eloi, which is, being interpreted, "My God why are you so far from helping me?" 37 And letting go in a great voice, Jesus breathed out. Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.You could say that he died as the God man for that is what he was. The bible says that God had prepared a body for him and Jesus said he commended his Spirit to God the father. This means that his spirit had to leave for his physical body to die otherwise he wouldn't have died. Of course his spirit didn't die but his body had to so it could be resurrected and be the first fruits of the resurrection.
The application of this old pagan conception of a Trinity to Christian theology was made possible by the recognition of the Holy Spirit as the required third "Person," co-equal with the other " Person" The idea of the Holy Spirit, as an emanation from God, had been known to the Jews from early times; but the Hebrew word which was used was roach, literally meaning "wind" or "breath of Life," this being translated into Greek as PNEUMA, which has precisely that significance, the action of the Spirit being described theologically as "pneumatic."4. Belief in the triune God is believing in Monotheism of One God. But the context is shown in compound unity of 3 persons unified in one perfect harmony which is shown throughout the criptures.
Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word " Trinity" appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan.Now tell me what is your motive to prove that there is only 1 person in the Godhead.
Listen to my answer for a change: The scriptures show that the Father is neither person nor originated. and the Son was created by God at his birth from his mother, and was separate person and the Holy Spirit is not a person, it is the power that comes from the Father.So what is your real motive to show just one God in the Godhead or that Jesus was just only human or whatever you really believe? Be plain for a change. Jerry kelso
At least you have revealed the truth and that is the truth is found in the scripture and the scriptures show that the Father is neither person or originated, and the Son was created by God at his birth from his mother, and was separate person and the Holy Spirit is not a person, it is the power that comes from the Father. It has been made VERY Clear to you that the topic is to be discussed under another thread. SO STOP disobeying the RULES> I am not associated with any organized group, other than what the disciples taught in the scriptures through Jesus. Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. All spirits return to God, as did the breath of life from Jesus, ‘Mr 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus shouted for help with a great voice, Eloi, Eloi, which is, being interpreted, "My God why are you so far from helping me?" 37 And letting go in a great voice, Jesus breathed out. Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. The application of this old pagan conception of a Trinity to Christian theology was made possible by the recognition of the Holy Spirit as the required third "Person," co-equal with the other " Person" The idea of the Holy Spirit, as an emanation from God, had been known to the Jews from early times; but the Hebrew word which was used was roach, literally meaning "wind" or "breath of Life," this being translated into Greek as PNEUMA, which has precisely that significance, the action of the Spirit being described theologically as "pneumatic."
Thus, in the Book of Genesis, where it is related that God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath
of life, the reference is to this Spirit, which had also moved upon the face of the waters in the earlier act of creation; and Job' speaks of the Spirit of God as being in his nostrils, and says: "The
Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life." Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word " Trinity" appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan.
The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognised the mysterious and undefined existence of the Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One, and the Apostles' Creed, which is the earliest of the formulated articles of Christian faith, does not mention it. Aristotle, On the Heavens, I.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: grace is the gift of God. Listen to my answer for a change: The scriptures show that the Father is neither person nor originated. and the Son was created by God at his birth from his mother, and was separate person and the Holy Spirit is not a person, it is the power that comes from the Father.
It is, indeed, derogatory to speak of the divine Being as "He" or " Him " ; for there is an indication of sex in the word, and in the spiritual sphere there is no such thing. God, in fact, as the scriptures say, is Spirit, anomni present, omnipotent, omni percipient All-in-All, completely incomprehensible to the mere reason, but in some degree intelligible to spiritual thought which has detached itself from material concepts. It is really quite vain, therefore, to exercise the mind as to whether He is Three in One, or Many in One, or simply One. He transcends numbers, eludes intellectual divisions or unification, and rises as far above the definitions implied in Polytheism or Monotheism as infinity is above finiteness. In a spiritual sense He is Everything, He is the Whole; and therefore He can be no more than One, and no less than all the possible fractions of One.
He is personal inasmuch as He pervades each one of us; and He is impersonal in as much as he pervades everything. Being beyond human ideas of bulk, and outside our three-dimensional conception of position. [Wiegell]
If Adam was first that precludes any pre-existence of Christ Jesus who died, God didn't, for God is immortal and Christ was a mortal until after his resurrection. Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.Jerry Kelso 2. If you believe that Jesus didn't pre-exist before his birth as Yahweh or God before this is why you don't believe he is deity and don't believe that he was the God-man.
The Holy Spirit is NOT a PERSON, it is the power that emanates from God. It is an insult to speak of God as a person. What you say is A Common idiom for the purpose of showing that God will guide us spiritually.Jerry Kelso 3. The Holy Spirit speaks and comforts and leads, guides and directs etc. and is called God. He is referred to as a person.
That is your PRESUMPTUOUS opinion showing a lack of proper social reserve or modesty. 1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.Jerry Kelso 4. Jesus commended or gave up his human spirit to the Lord in death. He was resurrected with a new body which was his physical body for spirit doesn't have flesh or bones. He was the God man and to say this proves he was never deity is like saying man is deity because he has a spirit.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? The Holy Spirit is NOT a PERSON, it is the power that emanates from God. It is an insult to speak of God as a person. What you say is A Common idiom for the purpose of showing that God will guide us spiritually.Jerry Kelso 5. Do you believe Christ was given deity and is now deity or not? If you do not then you won't believe that the Holy Spirit is a person of the Godhead.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did design for, he also did appropriate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. That is A Common idiom for 'he is “first born from the dead” (Col_1:18), the Eldest Brother in this family of God’s sons' [RWP]Jerry Kelso 6. Jesus never mentioned the word trinity but he did claim to be the Son of God and never denied being deity and this is why the jews were mad at him most for. Christ didn't take the nature of angels on and he was not made a new creation or reborn of the spirit as in being saved.
Ever hear of the word ‘GOD’? God is infinite and is spirit and above us, etc.Jerry Kelso 7. Being derogatory of calling God he? That is ridiculous! I could say it is ridiculous because he made us in his image and why because we are just human and not a God.
What? You mean you do not know that angels cannot sin for they are immortal. Those were messengers of man, not angels of God. Your biased opinion is showing you up.Jerry Kelso The angels intermixed with the daughters of men and propagated and that is impossible of sex with men.
The church is a body or assembly of people and is not called ‘he’ or ‘she’ but could be called ‘it’. Jesus is the headstone of the ecclesia. 1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (kephale̅ tou Christou ho theos). Rather, God is the head of Christ, since kephale̅ is anarthrous and predicate. [RWP] 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.Jerry Kelso Jesus who is deity is the head of the body and he was male and he was the God-man. The church is called he which is a male reference.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?Jerry Kelso 8. God can be one in three persons for they are totally united and never out of agreement with each other and they are deity and it is impossible for them to not be one in unity. no big deal.. he is God with whom nothing is impossible .
If Adam was first that precludes any pre-existence of Christ Jesus who died, God didn't, for God is immortal and Christ was a mortal until after his resurrection. Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
The Holy Spirit is NOT a PERSON, it is the power that emanates from God. It is an insult to speak of God as a person. What you say is A Common idiom for the purpose of showing that God will guide us spiritually.
After the image (kat' eikona). An allusion to Gen_1:26, Gen_1:28. The restoration of the image of God in us is gradual and progressive (2Co_3:18), but will be complete in the final result (Rom_8:29; 1Jo_3:2). [RWP]
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did design for, he also did appropriate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. That is A Common idiom for 'he is “first born from the dead” (Col_1:18), the Eldest Brother in this family of God’s sons' [RWP]
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having appropriated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
4309 proorizw design for, intend for, appropriate
That is your PRESUMPTUOUS opinion showing a lack of proper social reserve or modesty. 1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? The Holy Spirit is NOT a PERSON, it is the power that emanates from God. It is an insult to speak of God as a person. What you say is A Common idiom for the purpose of showing that God will guide us spiritually.
After the image (kat' eikona). An allusion to Gen_1:26, Gen_1:28. The restoration of the image of God in us is gradual and progressive (2Co_3:18), but will be complete in the final result (Rom_8:29; 1Jo_3:2). [RWP] Rom 8:29 For whom he did design for, he also did appropriate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. That is A Common idiom for 'he is “first born from the dead” (Col_1:18), the Eldest Brother in this family of God’s sons' [RWP]
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ever hear of the word ‘GOD’? God is infinite and is spirit and above us, etc. What? You mean you do not know that angels cannot sin for they are immortal. Those were messengers of man, not angels of God. Your biased opinion is showing you up.
The church is a body or assembly of people and is not called ‘he’ or ‘she’ but could be called ‘it’. Jesus is the headstone of the ecclesia. 1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (kephale̅ tou Christou ho theos). Rather, God is the head of Christ, since kephale̅ is anarthrous and predicate. [RWP] 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
The Spirit of God makes his home (oikei) in us, not in temples made with hands (Act_7:48; Act_17:24). [RWP]