What would you do if your teen told you. They were fondling their younger sibling private parts?

[Armoured]

What he did was exactly what my brother did. I can understand that they didn't tell the police. I didn't even tell my parents. He only did it once and tried to make up for it the rest of his life and even brought me to the Lord.
That's why they should ban inappropriate content, things like this, I'm almost sure it plays a big part, teenage boys get to see that filth, a demon comes in and they can't control themselves.

Those darn inappropriate content demons!

 

[jared1236]

In light of the Duggars. What would you do if your teen told you, They were fondling their younger sibling private parts? Would you turn it into the cops, therapist or deal with it your self?

In no way this matter should leave the household. I would talk to both the siblings. To one who did that despicable act I would ask what was wrong . Why he/she did that? And to the victim sibling I would ask how he/she feels about it. And try to smooth things out as an adult. And I would pray because thats really an awful act! God save that sibling form Satan's influence.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Depends on what the victim wanted. If someone molests my child and my child wants to press charges, I would support that. They have rights. If the child didn't want that, then I suppose it depends. I'm not going to force a victim to go to the police.

Definitely therapy, no matter what else we chose to do or not do.

If the victim is a minor, they don't have a choice. At least they didn't back in 1988, when I went through it. I was molested by one of my older brothers and someone (we never figured out who) reported it. Someone from CPS came to my school and talked to me about it, and my brother was removed from our house. By this time he was actually 18, but since it all happened when he was still under 18 (and had in fact not been a recent occurrance when things came to a head), he was treated as a minor, and his record was sealed. I never asked if I wanted to press charges, and I never testified at any hearings. I went to counseling, as did he, first separately, and then together.

We got through it, got over it, and settled into a normal sibling relationship as it should be, and I put it behind me.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

After piecing myself back together enough to function after being shattered, I'd seek a safe place for the teen to live outside of the family home. I'd ask family members or close friends who were trustworthy and had no minor children of their own in the home if he could stay with them. It wouldn't be permanently exiling the teen, but protecting the younger siblings by keeping them under separate roofs. While the Duggars did eventually send Josh away, he apparently remained in the home after they were made aware of him molesting the girls, and he repeated the offense. That would be the first of many steps.

I'd obtain professional and appropriate long-term psychiatric treatment for him, and separate and equally comprehensive treatment for the victims. I'd let the victims know that they could speak about it as openly as they needed, or keep it more private if they preferred.

My brother was removed from our home by order of CPS, and my father stayed in a hotel with him until they could get him set up in an apartment. He was just about to graduate high school anyway (I actually did get permission to attend because we would be supervised at all times - but the photos taken of the two of us together look very awkward).

CPS (AKA Northeast Parent and Child where we are) also were the ones who provided the counseling service, and that was also court-ordered.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

and yet Duggar's head is being demanded.

It's not so hard to understand. The Duggar family set themselves up as being so much better than the rest of us heathens because they are "right with God and Jesus" and they have the proper attitudes and approach about sex and relationships and marriage. And raising kids, too.

And then this comes out about Josh. Ah, yes, what's that verse about pride going before destruction and a haughty spirit before the fall???? That's the definition of KARMA in a nutshell.

 

[Corduroys]

I don't know the Duggars but Christians are not better than non Christians, we all sin. I think most Christians believe this.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

^^^ You haven't been here long enough, I reckon. And you obviously don't know squat about the Duggars or their mindset.

 

[Corduroys]

Well assuming they were proud and set themselves up as being so much better than non Christians etc that would actually be a sin in itself. I sympathise with you if this is true, the hypocrisy must be annoying.

Edit: Sorry confused logic on my part, I am tired.

 

[Gadarene]

It's not so hard to understand. The Duggar family set themselves up as being so much better than the rest of us heathens because they are "right with God and Jesus" and they have the proper attitudes and approach about sex and relationships and marriage. And raising kids, too.

And Dunham's never tried to engage in moralising with her feminism? Come on. Feminism has such an amazing track record of humility and not engaging in sanctimony, after all.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Now, we're supposed to believe the most generous possible version of events involving her sexual contact with her younger sibling? Really?

I posted the link where her sister was outraged by the allegations that she'd been abused by Lena and felt more victimized and angry by the media misconstruing what she believed were innocent but quirky moments of her childhood. Is there a reason why we shouldn't believe that Grace Dunham was being honest?

If you thought I was writing an effusive endorsement for Lena Dunham, as it appears that you have by your bizarre need to write out a vehement post against her shouting at me with all caps and an aggressive tone, then I apologize for causing your confusion. As I wrote previously, I think she's obnoxious and vulgar, and I've never been a fan of hers; that wasn't writing a statement of support but a clarification about how her actions are vastly different to Josh Duggar's and she shouldn't be used as a diversion. Mainly, I just wish this thread hadn't been derailed from the topic about what parents would do if their teenager fondled younger siblings.

 

[NightHawkeye]

I posted the link where her sister was outraged by the allegations that she'd been abused by Lena and felt more victimized and angry by the media misconstruing what she believed were innocent but quirky moments of her childhood. Is there a reason why she shouldn't believe that Grace Dunham was honest?

The minimalist account you presented was quickly contradicted by Gadarene's subsequent post. Now, one can make arguments either way but we ... who are uninvolved except for being spectators ... likely will never have any more than circumstantial evidence to argue with.

If you thought I was writing an effusive endorsement for Lena Dunham, as it appears that you have by your bizarre need to write out a vehement post against her shouting at me with all caps and an aggressive tone, then I apologize for causing your confusion.

No confusion on my part. I merely felt compelled to point out in as clear and convincing a fashion as possible that Lena Dunham is a confirmed LIAR on matters of substance involving human sexuality.

That's not personal against you in any way, Artemis.

As I wrote previously, I think she's obnoxious and vulgar, and I've been been a fan of hers ...

Thanks for being up front with your bias.

... that wasn't writing a statement of support ...

Perhaps not, but being a fan of hers obviously colors your perspective of her actions.

... but a clarification about how her actions are vastly different to Josh Duggar's and she shouldn't be used as a diversion.

Of course. It's already been pointed out that it was a loving caring relationship.

I remain skeptical about how loving the use of rocks was though.

Mainly, I just wish this thread hadn't been derailed from the topic about what parents would do if their teenager fondled younger siblings.

The Lena Dunham instance provided a useful contrast in how society views the matter in relation to each gender. It shouldn't come as a big surprise to anyone who pays attention. It's only recently that female teachers have even begun to be prosecuted for sexual abuse of students.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Your summary is inaccurate. It wasn't just the pebbles-in-vagina incident (incidentally, her sister was 1 at the time....yeah, I'm sure she put the pebbles in her own vagina). She also admitted to bribing her in order to kiss her (we call that "grooming" when a male does it), and masturbating while next to her in bed. Her sister was asleep, but still, ick, and that's all she's admitting to.

It was an accurate summary of the one incident Lena Dunham described of her inappropriately touching her younger sister, at age 7 out of curiosity. My stepmom, her brother, and another uncle are pediatricians; they've said you'd be stunned at the inordinate variety of things young children have stuffed in their own orifices. They talked about some of the more bizarre things their patients have consumed or place inside themselves, from a cockroach to crayons. If Lena had stuffed the pebbles inside her sister, it would have been more logical that she'd then try to remove them herself to avoid trouble rather than immediately calling for their mom to come help.

The majority of pediatricians, child psychologists, and rational and intelligent people of the world could also explain to you why a 7-year-old inappropriately touching a younger sibling in a burst of curiosity is diametrically different from an adolescent fondling multiple prepubescent siblings multiple times. Adolescent pedophilia is the sexual attraction by teens to prepubescent children who are at least three to five years younger, and is clinically and morally different from a prepubescent child inappropriately touching another prepubescent child out of curiosity in isolated incidents. Age is what is most critical. It's not uncommon for young children to be inquisitive about younger siblings and their peers and to "play doctor" or otherwise explore. That's not comparable to someone in adolescence inappropriately fondling a child he is nearly thrice the age of while she slept.

How does touching herself in the bed she shared with her sister, while her sister slept conceivably compare to sneaking into a bedroom and fondling girls while they slept? Her sister was the one who requested that she share the bed with her, which conveys the sense of trust and safety she felt. It's still obviously vile and narcissistic of Lena, but incomparable to child molestation. Characterizing the two actions as equal generates confusion and other potential problems that could actually further harm rather than protect victims of abuse. How does "bribing" her sister for a kiss compare to a teenager molesting the genitals of a five-year-old in her sleep?

Oh, obviously Dunham was just joking. But hey, she's a woman, and a feminist darling. Obviously she deserves to be treated much more charitably than a man who admitted to doing the same things as her would be.

No. Her statements simply need to be considered within the context, just as anything you write should be as well. By the way, what do you mean by "disregard females; acquire currency"?

And Duggar's victims have "forgiven him". So what?

Where have his victims been indignant and enraged at the media portraying Josh's actions as child molestation when they believed it was entirely innocent? The victims haven't made any public statements. Their parents acknowledge that his actions were inexcusable and harmful to them. Do you think it's fair to them and to other victims of sexual abuse to say that their experiences are equal to Grace Dunhum's, when she's vigorously denied that she was victimized in any way? When in fact she's been far more distressed by the media labeling her as a victim? It's not just about Josh and Lena's actions that are relevant.

Nothing diversionary about it. I'm saying they're both abusive, and that the hypocrisy here is rather interesting. If you wonder why people aren't taking Duggar's abuse quite so seriously as you'd like, there's part of your answer. What I'm saying is we need some kind of consistency here.

Yes, it is diversionary. Many people were outraged and repulsed by Lena Dunham's book, fittingly, but consistency can only be expected when actions are commensurate and in this case no matter how much you want to try to make them so, they aren't.

Well, why would she need to hide it? People will make apologies for her, your post is a case in point.

I haven't made an apology for her, nor would I ever do so; I've explained why your comparisons are flawed and expressed annoyance that you've derailed another thread.

Again, there was more than the one incident between Lena and Grace Dunham, including incidents when Lena was a teenager - and if Lena Dunham was male, people would be flipping their collective lids over it. Particularly if he was a disliked conservative.

People did flip their collective lids over Lena Dunham's book. The reaction wasn't as proportion to Josh's, not just because of the diametric differences in their images, but again, because the actions weren't proportional. One involved sex offenses that are prosecutable by law, and the other was just a narcissistic freak.

Why should people take the Duggar case seriously, when it's ok to excuse Dunham's behaviour as "perfectly normal" when convenient? This hypocrisy has consequences.

Those involved in his life took his repeated actions of fondling children while he was a teenager over a course of time very seriously. His case has a 33 page police report with graphic details of him on repeated incidences. His parents evaded the police request to present him for questioning.

Lena Dunham, by comparison, wrote at the beginning of the book that she's an unreliable narrator and she's known for being a fabulist. Her own family has put the comments and incidents within the context and been offended and hurt that they were characterized as sexual abuse, whereas the Duggars acknowledged that their son's actions constituted child molestation.

- Have to state again. Not condoning Lena or her actions, then or now. Not viewing them as equivalent to Josh Duggar's doesn't equate to me viewing them as acceptable or being a fan of hers. They're not and I'm not.

 

[Armoured]

And Dunham's never tried to engage in moralising with her feminism? Come on. Feminism has such an amazing track record of humility and not engaging in sanctimony, after all.

It's not a zero sum game. We can be critical of both groups for hypocrisy

 

[Gadarene]

It's not a zero sum game. We can be critical of both groups for hypocrisy

I'm not saying one is better than the other. Far from it. I'm simply pointing out that an admission of repeat molestation by Dunham has been given far less criticism than Duggar's has.

 

[Armoured]

I'm not saying one is better than the other. Far from it. I'm simply pointing out that an admission of repeat molestation by Dunham has been given far less criticism than Duggar's has.

If the incidents are comparable, they should be treated equally. Period.

 

[MehGuy]

Well hopefully the right wing media goes after her now, and she loses her job and career and becomes a raving homeless women.

I can't think of any higher justice than that, lol.

 

[Gadarene]

If the incidents are comparable, they should be treated equally. Period.

Equally, inconsistent treatment of Dunham and Duggar by some does not provide an excuse for people to ignore what Duggar has done, but the hypocrisy is worth pointing out nonetheless. It might also be part of the reason why people aren't taking the outrage over this more seriously.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

The minimalist account you presented was quickly contradicted by Gadarene's subsequent post. Now, one can make arguments either way but we ... who are uninvolved except for being spectators ... likely will never have any more than circumstantial evidence to argue with.

My account only appears to be minimal because it was adjacent to a magnified account. Gadarene actually didn't contradict me because he provided no other incidences of Lena Dunham inappropriately touching the private areas of her sister besides the one when she was seven. He stated that she wrote about her touching herself as a kid while sharing a bed with her younger sister, which is psychologically, legally, and morally different from fondling another child while that child was sleeping. He wrote about her "bribing" her younger sister for a kiss, which also doesn't fall within the realm of child molestation. He more quickly responded to the post because he had the liberty to do so. I wrote my post and then logged off to go to school.

There is a 33 page police report detailing the repeated incidents where Josh Duggar molested five younger girls while he was a teenager, and they were prepubescent. In Jim Bob Duggar's interview with the police, which is detailed in that report, he stated that Josh had sexually molested several girls in repeated incidents over the course of a year, and that the girls were all younger than him, and some significantly so. By the time of the interview, the statute of limitations had expired. That isn't just circumstantial evidence. In December 2006, someone called a hotline and reported that Josh Duggar had sexually molested several girls a few years prior. There are also internet postings dating back nearly a decade, prior to the Duggars having the level of fame they do now, from people with intimate insight on the situation that could only have be accrued by someone within that community describing Josh as a child molester and expressing outrage that he was permitted to remain in the same house as his sisters.

There is Lena Dunham's book that has the page I described of the incident of her exploring her sister at age 7, and the statements from Grace Dunham and the family about them. Laurie Simmons, the mother of the Dunham sisters, has also flatly stated that it was ludicrous to describe the incident as molestation.

No confusion on my part. I merely felt compelled to point out in as clear and convincing a fashion as possible that Lena Dunham is a confirmed LIAR on matters of substance involving human sexuality.

That's not personal against you in any way, Artemis.

That she is known for being a fabulist and provocateur and stated in her book that she is an "unreliable narrator" should be a reason to look for evidence outside of the book itself that would substantiate child molestation accusations.

Thanks for being up front with your bias.

Um. That was explaining why I'm not bias towards her.

Perhaps not, but being a fan of hers obviously colors your perspective of her actions.

I'm not a fan of her's, as I clearly stated in my first post about her in this thread. Please direct back to that. I was writing the second response from my phone within a moving car (I was in the backseat) and inadvertently left out the never. I don't exactly proofread my posts on an internet forum, so I make errors. You can see that the sentence was botched by "As I wrote previously, I think she's obnoxious and vulgar, and I've been been a fan of hers ..." I will edit and correct the typo.

Of course. It's already been pointed out that it was a loving caring relationship.

I remain skeptical about how loving the use of rocks was though.

My stepmom, her brother, and my dad's brother are all pediatricians, and they've had a friendly "competition" about the weirdest things their young patients have stuck within their orifices, from candy to bugs. (Don't worry, they never reveal any identifying details of the children or their parents.) My cousin had to be hospitalized when he was four because he stuffed Nerd candy up his nose and had to be extricated with specialized tools.

The Lena Dunham instance provided a useful contrast in how society views the matter in relation to each gender. It shouldn't come as a big surprise to anyone who pays attention. It's only recently that female teachers have even begun to be prosecuted for sexual abuse of students.

As I wrote before, the two incidences are not commensurate so it's absurd to try to do a compare and contrast. It should be noted that there were still many who were repulsed by what Lena wrote. She seemed to think it was a cute anecdote illustrating her inquisitive and imaginative nature as a child, whereas most others thought it was crass. Few reasonable people would classify that incident when she was seven as child molestation comparable to Josh Duggar's repeated actions when he was twice that age. Her teenage actions are also not equivalent to his.

 

[Gadarene]

My account only appears to be minimal because it was adjacent to a magnified account. Gadarene actually didn't contradict me because he provided no other incidences of Lena Dunham inappropriately touching the private areas of her sister besides the one when she was seven. He stated that she wrote about her touching herself as a kid while sharing a bed with her younger sister, which is psychologically, legally, and morally different from fondling another child while that child was sleeping. He wrote about her "bribing" her younger sister for a kiss, which also doesn't fall within the realm of child molestation. He more quickly responded to the post because he had the liberty to do so. I wrote my post and then logged off to go to school.

I wrote more than that - you didn't mention the bit about her masturbating next to her sleeping sister.

There is a 33 page police report detailing the repeated incidents where Josh Duggar molested five younger girls while he was a teenager, and they were prepubescent. In Jim Bob Duggar's interview with the police, which is detailed in that report, he stated that Josh had sexually molested several girls in repeated incidents over the course of a year, and that the girls were all younger than him, and some significantly so. By the time of the interview, the statute of limitations had expired. That isn't just circumstantial evidence. In December 2006, someone called a hotline and reported that Josh Duggar had sexually molested several girls a few years prior. There are also internet postings dating back nearly a decade, prior to the Duggars having the level of fame they do now, from people with intimate insight on the situation that could only have be accrued by someone within that community describing Josh as a child molester and expressing outrage that he was permitted to remain in the same house as his sisters

There is Lena Dunham's book that has the page I described of the incident of her exploring her sister at age 7, and the statements from Grace Dunham and the family about them. Laurie Simmons, the mother of the Dunham sisters, has also flatly stated that it was ludicrous to describe the incident as molestation.

So what? Just because they say it wasn't abuse doesn't mean it wasn't abuse.

That she is known for being a fabulist and provocateur and stated in her book that she is an "unreliable narrator" should be a reason to look for evidence outside of the book itself that would substantiate child molestation accusations.

Maybe Duggar should have used that defense.

I'm sure everyone would just relax and take claims of sexual assault against a male in their stride if they made some crack about being an unreliable narrator.

As I wrote before, the two incidences are not commensurate so it's absurd to try to do a compare and contrast.

How exactly is grooming a younger child to kiss you and masturbating next to them in bed not molestation exactly?

It should be noted that there were still many who were repulsed by what Lena wrote. She seemed to think it was a cute anecdote illustrating her inquisitive and imaginative nature as a child, whereas most others thought it was crass. Few reasonable people would classify that incident when she was seven as child molestation comparable to Josh Duggar's repeated actions when he was twice that age. Her teenage actions are also not equivalent to his.

You keep coming back to this one incident of Dunham's, when I've referred to far more incidents than that.

And I get that kids explore their bodies, but you're not convincing me that a one-year old inserted pebbles into themselves.

 

[Gadarene]

It was an accurate summary of the one incident Lena Dunham described of her inappropriately touching her younger sister, at age 7 out of curiosity. My stepmom, her brother, and another uncle are pediatricians; they've said you'd be stunned at the inordinate variety of things young children have stuffed in their own orifices. They talked about some of the more bizarre things their patients have consumed or place inside themselves, from a cockroach to crayons. If Lena had stuffed the pebbles inside her sister, it would have been more logical that she'd then try to remove them herself to avoid trouble rather than immediately calling for their mom to come help.

Or maybe she said that her sister did it to herself to avoid blame being placed on her.

The majority of pediatricians, child psychologists, and rational and intelligent people of the world could also explain to you why a 7-year-old inappropriately touching a younger sibling in a burst of curiosity is diametrically different from an adolescent fondling multiple prepubescent siblings multiple times. Adolescent pedophilia is the sexual attraction by teens to prepubescent children who are at least three to five years younger, and is clinically and morally different from a prepubescent child inappropriately touching another prepubescent child out of curiosity in isolated incidents. Age is what is most critical. It's not uncommon for young children to be inquisitive about younger siblings and their peers and to "play doctor" or otherwise explore. That's not comparable to someone in adolescence inappropriately fondling a child he is nearly thrice the age of while she slept.

What about someone much later in adolescence masturbating next to them while they slept?

How does touching herself in the bed she shared with her sister while her sister slept conceivably compare to sneaking into a bedroom and fondling girls while they slept? How does "bribing" her sister for a kiss compare to a teenager molesting the genitals of a five-year-old in her sleep?

I'm saying they're all grooming/molestation of a sort, and again, you've ignored the bit where she masturbated next to her sister while she was sleeping.

No. Her statements simply need to be considered within the context, just as anything you write should be as well. By the way, what do you mean by "disregard females; acquire currency".

You are ignoring context like crazy. A male who made the same sorts of cracks would get far more backlash.

As for the tagline, don't concern yourself with it.

Where have his victims been indignant and enraged at the media portraying Josh's actions as child molestation when they believed it was entirely innocent?

They downplayed the problem by saying that his victims had forgiven him. Just because the Dunhams claim Lena's actions weren't abusive doesn't mean they weren't abusive. Both families are downplaying what's going on.

Yes, it is diversionary. Many people were outraged and repulsed by Lena Dunham's book, but consistency can only be expected when actions are commensurate and in this case no matter how much you want to try to make them so, they aren't.

I haven't made an apology for her. I've explained why your comparisons are flawed and expressed annoyance that you've derailed another thread

You seem to have missed the fact that Dunham's antics did extend to when she was a teenager.

Those involved in his life took his repeated actions of fondling children while he was a teenager over a course of time very seriously. His case has a 33 page police report with graphic details of him on repeated incidences. His parents evaded the police request to present him for questioning.

Lena Dunham, by comparison, wrote at the beginning of the book that she's an unreliable narrator and she's known for being a fabulist. Her own family has put the comments and incidents within the context and been offended and hurt that they were characterized as sexual abuse, whereas the Duggars acknowledged that their son's actions constituted child molestation.

I'd love to know how a longer police report somehow means Duggar's actions are weightier. Our allegedly misogynist society generally ignores female perpetrated sex abuse, so why in the world should the length of a police report have any bearing on anything here? All that demonstrates is men get the book thrown at them.