What would you do if your teen told you. They were fondling their younger sibling private parts?

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MiniEmu

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Personally I wouldn't view it as a case of dealing with it personally or going to therapy or going to the police. That said I probably wouldn't go to the police until I had some certainty that it would be the only way for things to be sorted. The teen may have done awful things, but they would still be my child. At this point I would feel like I'd failed all my children.

I understand teenage curiosity, particularly in an environment such as the Duggars provide, can get the better of them. It's no excuse, but I can see how circumstances aligned that the natural curiosity escalated into actual touching. That said I'd have a duty of care towards the teenager undertaking these actions, and the children he was abusing (which is what it is, teenage curiosity or not).

Should they come to me directly and say what they've been doing then the action plan would probably involve the first step of family intervention (wrong word, but I can't think of the right one). Naturally it would have to be discussed and we would have to ensure that the way in which things were done meant the children at risk were never alone with the child putting them at risk. Professional therapy, and I mean genuine therapy with someone experienced in these sort of things, would need to play a part. I guess that may even be the case for the children my teenager had abused too, again following a discussion with them.

I'd be reluctant to go to the police, because the teen is still my child and the thought of immediately washing my hands of them (and placing them into a system I do not believe actually works in aiding reformation in matters such as this) would be the last chance saloon. It would feel like I'm giving up on my older child, who I'd failed just as much as my younger children. I'd rather take preventative measures in the home, supported by a decent therapist, than toss my teen to the police without any sort of effort on my end.

Which is why I understand the Duggars going about things the way they did. I understand it completely. Perhaps if it actually happened to be (and I hope God will never test me in such a way) perhaps I'd act differently. Perhaps there'd be something in the way the acts were admitted, or something the younger children mentioned during our discussions, that would make me feel that there is no in-home solution, that it's the police or pretending that nothing is wrong. It's a horrible situation to be in for all involved. Particularly the younger children.
 
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Cearbhall

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In light of the Duggars. What would you do if your teen told you, They were fondling their younger sibling private parts? Would you turn it into the cops, therapist or deal with it your self?
Depends on what the victim wanted. If someone molests my child and my child wants to press charges, I would support that. They have rights. If the child didn't want that, then I suppose it depends. I'm not going to force a victim to go to the police.

Definitely therapy, no matter what else we chose to do or not do.
 
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High Fidelity

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Depends on what the victim wanted. If someone molests my child and my child wants to press charges, I would support that.

That's also to be considered, of course, but I think as adults we also need to appreciate that something that can be fixed may not necessarily warrant ruining someone's life over, but of course, that's circumstantial to the grief of the victim.

A lot of illegal acts go unreported because a lot of people consider it something they can handle and appropriate themselves. I guess since we will never know all of the facts we can't assume that about this case, but it's something to consider.
 
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Messy

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What he did was exactly what my brother did. I can understand that they didn't tell the police. I didn't even tell my parents. He only did it once and tried to make up for it the rest of his life and even brought me to the Lord.
That's why they should ban inappropriate content, things like this, I'm almost sure it plays a big part, teenage boys get to see that filth, a demon comes in and they can't control themselves.
 
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High Fidelity

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What he did was exactly what my brother did. I can understand that they didn't tell the police. I didn't even tell my parents. He only did it once and tried to make up for it the rest of his life and even brought me to the Lord.
That's why they should ban inappropriate content, things like this, I'm almost sure it plays a big part, teenage boys get to see that filth, a demon comes in and they can't control themselves.

Sorry for posting off-topic, but I commend your bravery for being able to share that.

Thank you.
 
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Cearbhall

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but I think as adults we also need to appreciate that something that can be fixed may not necessarily warrant ruining someone's life over, but of course, that's circumstantial to the grief of the victim.
That's true, but it's not my decision to make if I'm not the victim. Like I said, if the victim didn't want to go to the police, then I might choose not to. Depends on the severity and other factors.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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In light of the Duggars. What would you do if your teen told you, They were fondling their younger sibling private parts? Would you turn it into the cops, therapist or deal with it your self?

After piecing myself back together enough to function after being shattered, I'd seek a safe place for the teen to live outside of the family home. I'd ask family members or close friends who were trustworthy and had no minor children of their own in the home if he could stay with them. It wouldn't be permanently exiling the teen, but protecting the younger siblings by keeping them under separate roofs. While the Duggars did eventually send Josh away, he apparently remained in the home after they were made aware of him molesting the girls, and he repeated the offense. That would be the first of many steps.

I'd obtain professional and appropriate long-term psychiatric treatment for him, and separate and equally comprehensive treatment for the victims. I'd let the victims know that they could speak about it as openly as they needed, or keep it more private if they preferred.

As for the rest I think it would depend on the specifics such as their ages, whether it was one child or multiple who were victimized, what the molestation consisted of, and whether it was a one-time or repeated offense. If the victim was old enough to give a reliable answer and said it was a one-time occurrence, and didn't seem to be fearful around the sibling or severely traumatized, I'd still take action but it wouldn't be as extensive. With Josh Duggar it's far more complex because he molested multiple girls, multiple times, and was more than twice the age of the youngest. There's a difference between a flash of morbid curiosity and repeatedly molesting girls in their sleep.
 
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Gadarene

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It seems the wider reaction depends on what gender and political beliefs the perp has.

So amidst all this Duggar-child-fondling furore, I remembered how Lena Dunham openly admitted to touching, kissing, and masturbating in bed with, her younger sister, over a much longer period (7 to 17).

Interesting how the liberal, feminist darling wasn't fired from....well, anything, and yet Duggar's head is being demanded.
 
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NightHawkeye

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It seems the wider reaction depends on what gender and political beliefs the perp has.

So amidst all this Duggar-child-fondling furore, I remembered how Lena Dunham openly admitted to touching, kissing, and masturbating in bed with, her younger sister, over a much longer period (7 to 17).

Interesting how the liberal, feminist darling wasn't fired from....well, anything, and yet Duggar's head is being demanded.
That's OK. It was a loving, caring relationship. :doh:
 
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Ada Lovelace

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^ Actually that is a very good point.

The world is a strange place.

Even if I'm not entirely sure who Lena Dunham is. I assume she's popular in the states, but has yet to make any significant impact in the UK?

She's an eccentric writer, creator, and star of a popular show called Girls, and her entire brand is essentially based upon being subversive, uninhibited, and provocative. She is popular in the UK but mainly amongst 20 and 30 somethings. I personally think she's obnoxious and crude, but not a child molester. In her autobiography she described how when she was seven years old her mother explained what uteruses were, how all females had them, and how they contained eggs that one day would be used to make babies. Lena wanted to know if her toddler-aged sister had eggs already inside her, and was astonished when her mom explained that she did. She wrote that she imagined they'd look like the spider eggs in Charlotte's Web, and that her sister's uterus would be the size of a thimble. Later on while out in the driveway of their house playing together Lena wrote that her curiosity got the best of her and she looked inside her sister's vagina. She discovered that her sister had stuffed pebbles inside herself, and yelled for their mom to come. That's the most scandalous part of the "sexual abuse" allegation. A blogger wrote a post focusing on this incident titled "Lena Dunham Describes Sexually Abusing Her Little Sister," that then went viral. He initially wrote that Lena was 17 at the time. Though he later made a correction, there were already Tweets and posts all over the internet repeating that she was 17 rather than 7. With both ages floating around it led to the erroneous belief that the abuse had transpired over a decade long period between ages 7 and 17 instead of being an isolated incident that occurred when she was a child. The blogger also ripped a tongue-in-cheek comment about how "anything a sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl I was trying" completely out of its context below the title and manipulated it into something far more sinister-seeming.

Her sister was outraged by the accusations that she'd been abused and lashed out at the media for it in a series of Tweets.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/nov/05/lena-dunham-statement-abuse-claims

It was widely predicted on social media that within 4 days of the news breaking Lena Dunham would be brought up as a diversionary tactic to detract or other minimize Josh Duggar. I don't know how you can reasonably compare a teenager molesting five girls, one of whom was only 4 and 5 at the time, in multiple incidences of increasing severity over a period of time to an isolated incidence of a 7-year-old peering into her sister's vagina wanting to see what her eggs looked like, while they were on their driveway in broad-day. It was still inappropriate and bizarre behavior, and incredibly vile to have written about, but it wasn't with sexually motivated intent, and the moral and cognitive development of a 7 year old is incomparable to a 14-year-old's.
Lena Dunham also wasn't attempting to conceal anything since she made her mother aware of it immediately, wrote about it in her book, and seems to be verbally incontinent. I'm not an apologist of hers and I think she's a self-possessed, crass, and insufferable, and the actions unacceptable, but still incomparable to Josh Duggars's as described in the graphic police report.

ETA: Apparently this was perceived as being a "incomplete" or generous since, as described in the link posted above, she also as a child "bribed" her sister with pieces of candy for a few seconds of kissing, and touched herself in the bed she shared with her sister. It should be noted that her sister requested they share the bed, for over a decade of time, because she was comforted by her sister's presence, and remains her staunchest defender. I think some of Lena's actions were nevertheless narcissistic and disgusting, but it's an offense to reason to compare those actions to a teenager who on multiple occasions intruded into the bedrooms of five prepubescent girls and molested them as they slept, and continued with the behavior even after being caught and punished. It's also demeaning to authentic sufferers of child abuse to insist that Grace Dunham, Lena's sister, is a victim, contrary to her vehement insistence that she is not.

Also - there have been some vile insinuations here that if you view the two as a false equivalency "you don't care about sexual abuse victims whose perpetrators were females." That is preposterous. Child molestation is abhorrent and wrong regardless of the genders involved of the perpetrators and victims. I've been volunteering with abused and at-risk children for the past four years. It's because I see the potential for harm of declaring the actions equivalent, that I've put effort into posts here. Otherwise I would not invest much time on an internet forum thread. They're both wrong, for separate reasons, and are not commensurate. Lena Dunham is an insufferable and vile person, and I'm certainly not an admirer much less an apologist for her. I am disturbed by some of her childhood behavior. I simply do not view her inappropriate actions as equivalent to Josh Duggar's when the facts are lined up.
 
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MiniEmu

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Oh... I'm just too old and out of it to appreciate her :(. I just don't seem to recognise her, at all.

Although having skimmed the book (I'm that sad, I had to do it) I can see how people can compare two accounts of siblings who, for whatever reason, did both become engaged in using their younger siblings to satisfy their sexual explorations. If the bits of Miss Dunham's book are accurate, she bribed her younger sister to do various things outside of that initial act of curiosity.

Which, if accurate, makes it a fair comparison. I'm not condemning either child (as they were) for doing such things, but wording plays a huge part in how people interpret things. On the one hand Miss Dunham played it out as a joke, she and her sister are open about it and took a very different approach to it than Mr Duggar and his family. On the other Mr Duggar has always open open about it (apparently), just not to the media, which is understandable.
 
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NightHawkeye

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She's an eccentric writer, creator, and star of a popular show called Girls, and her entire brand is essentially based upon being subversive, uninhibited, and provocative.
Provocative to the point of being an unrepentant LIAR. Her claims about being raped were patently false in multiple ways:


What's most interesting perhaps is that Lena Dunham takes no responsibility for her own conduct of drug abuse in the alleged rape, taking heroin, instead claiming that she was in no condition to consent to sex. :doh:

Now, we're supposed to believe the most generous possible version of events involving her sexual contact with her younger sibling? Really?
 
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Gadarene

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She's an eccentric writer, creator, and star of a popular show called Girls, and her entire brand is essentially based upon being subversive, uninhibited, and provocative. She is popular in the UK but mainly amongst 20 and 30 somethings. I personally think she's obnoxious, but certainly not a child molester. In her autobiography she described how when she was seven years old her mother explained what uteruses were, how all females had them, and how they contained eggs that one day would be used to make babies. Lena wanted to know if her toddler-aged sister had eggs already inside her, and was astonished when her mom explained that she did. She wrote that she imagined they'd look like the spider eggs in Charlotte's Web, and that her sister's uterus would be the size of a thimble. Later on while out in the driveway of their house playing together Lena wrote that her curiosity got the best of her and she looked inside her sister's vagina. She discovered that her sister had stuffed pebbles inside herself, and yelled for their mom to come. That's the most scandalous part of the "sexual abuse" allegation. A blogger wrote a post focusing on this incident titled "Lena Dunham Describes Sexually Abusing Her Little Sister," that then went viral. He initially wrote that Lena was 17 at the time. Though he later made a correction, there were already Tweets and posts all over the internet repeating that she was 17 rather than 7. With both ages floating around it led to the erroneous belief that the abuse had transpired over a decade long period between ages 7 and 17 instead of being an isolated incident that occurred when she was a child.

Your summary is inaccurate. It wasn't just the pebbles-in-vagina incident (incidentally, her sister was 1 at the time....yeah, I'm sure she put the pebbles in her own vagina). She also admitted to bribing her in order to kiss her (we call that "grooming" when a male does it), and masturbating while next to her in bed. Her sister was asleep, but still, ick, and that's all she's admitting to.

The blogger also ripped a tongue-in-cheek comment about how "anything a sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl I was trying" completely out of its context below the title and manipulated it into something far more sinister-seeming.

Oh, obviously Dunham was just joking. But hey, she's a woman, and a feminist darling. Obviously she deserves to be treated much more charitably than a man who admitted to doing the same things as her would be.

That's equality, after all!

Her sister was outraged by the accusations that she'd been abused and lashed out at the media for it in a series of Tweets.

And Duggar's victims have "forgiven him". So what?

It was widely predicted on social media that within 4 days of the news breaking Lena Dunham would be brought up as a diversionary tactic to detract or other minimize Josh Duggar.

Nothing diversionary about it. I'm saying they're both abusive, and that the hypocrisy here is rather interesting. If you wonder why people aren't taking Duggar's abuse quite so seriously as you'd like, there's part of your answer. What I'm saying is we need some kind of consistency here.

I don't know how you can reasonably compare a teenager molesting five girls, one of whom was only 4 and 5 at the time, in multiple incidences over a period of time to an isolated incidence of a 7-year-old peering into her sister's vagina wanting to see what her eggs looked like. Lena Dunham also wasn't attempting to conceal anything since she wrote about it in her book.

Well, why would she need to hide it? People will make apologies for her, your post is a case in point.

Again, there was more than the one incident between Lena and Grace Dunham, including incidents when Lena was a teenager - and if Lena Dunham was male, people would be flipping their collective lids over it. Particularly if he was a disliked conservative.

Why should people take the Duggar case seriously, when it's ok to excuse Dunham's behaviour as "perfectly normal" when convenient? This hypocrisy has consequences.
 
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Cearbhall

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Again, there was more than the one incident between Lena and Grace Dunham, including incidents when Lena was a teenager - and if Lena Dunham was male, people would be flipping their collective lids over it. Particularly if he was a disliked conservative.
People did flip lids over it, from what I saw. Including myself. Tons of articles and harassment online, just like with Josh. That's the only reason any of us heard about it. The only difference I see is that her network didn't decide to drop her.
 
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Gadarene

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People did flip lids over it, from what I saw. Including myself. Tons of articles and harassment online, just like with Josh. That's the only reason any of us heard about it. The only difference I see is that her network didn't decide to drop her.

That's the point. It's expected for Duggar to be pushed out of the activism he was engaged in.

By contrast, Dunham was never pushed out of anything.
 
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keith99

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In response to the question in the OP the first thing I'd do is determine the details and context. I'd assume nothing, especially anything about who was the aggressor or even if there was an aggressor.

A sibling 4-5 years older molesting their younger sibling is rather different than a pair of opposite sex fraternal twins saying 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Technically one of the twins is younger that the other. Growing up depending on growth spurts people often thought my younger brother and I were twins (I think especially when sitting or otherwise in a position where size differences were not highlighted). One year is clearly younger but not always a power imbalance.
 
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