- Feb 10, 2013
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Ok
How does this keep going on ?
I'm beginning to think this isn't a systemic problem as much an institutional one.
What I mean by that is that it isn't how the church is managed (the systems) but that the institution of the priesthood is fundamentally flawed.
I'm not talking about married priest vs unmarried vs women priest vs. homosexual priest. What I'm saying is this (I'm trying to make this very clear, forgive me)
Something is tragically wrong with the way the priesthood is and how priests view themselves and each other.
Like cops. The good one would never rat out the bad ones. Why ?
Because they're all cops and cops don't rat out other cops.
Same thing only with god-like powers. Priests can loose sinners from sin, change wine and bread into the body and blood of Christ, create unifying bonds between people that can't be broken.
Do they view themselves and each other as above review and reproach because of what they are?
I'm seriously beginning to think yes.
Just to be clear it isn't "an incident" but a massive number of abuses over an extended period involving a significant proportion of the priests and religious from a relatively small country diocese.Every one involved in this despicable incident should have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If found guilty they should have been defrocked and sent to prison.
Just to be clear it isn't "an incident" but a massive number of abuses over an extended period involving a significant proportion of the priests and religious from a relatively small country diocese.
A few have ended up in jail, but most are dead. The bishop is certainly guilty of covering up molestation - but that is not a criminal offence. He was almost certainly guilty of misprision of felony, but it couldn't be proved at the time, and that offence no longer exists. Even if it were still an offence he could be prosecuted for, the church holds all the evidence that still exists, if any, off-shore and won't give it up. The church could still deal with him, but the state is powerless to do so.
The bigger question, though - the one the Royal Inquiry exists to examine - is the response of the institution. How and why did institutions act the way they did when they discovered these things happening, and to what extent have those forces, whether systemic, cultural, whatever, changed to fix it? Why did Mulkearns act the way he did? Why did he not keep records and hand what he knew to the police? (answer at least in part: because Canon Law forbade him doing so, and still does)
But that is the job of the union. The system is supposed to work by balances - the school and the teacher registration board looks to the interests of the children and the union to the interest of the teachers, and if it works well (which it doesn't always) the interests of both are looked after as well as is possible.yes, like cops! that kind of institutionally being closed off to outsiders
you are very clear in all of this, and you make a lot of sense
I was thinking something very similar but I could not really form it out as clearly as you did
but, is not every group like this in some way?
look at how teachers unions stick up for teachers despite what parents or even administrators think
It is. That's why we have to ensure the systems exist to challenge it.while it is horrible when this happens within the Church, and we need to take steps to prevent it from happening, maybe this clannishness is just part of the human condition?
Well, he had a stroke and he says he has problems with his memory.most are dead? well that makes it really hard for the full story to come out
and you mentioned before that the Bishop had a stroke and now has problems with his memory?
No other organisation can do that. The Royal Commission is the independent body set in place to look to that. it doesn't always make stuff public. Other churches and other bodies have complied with requests for documentation. That will be analysed by the Commission, as it should be.maybe this is why the Vatican will not hand over documents to this Royal Inquiry
they know that the full story of what happened is now lost in the past, and to embolden people to push on with half truths and incomplete facts does not serve justice
That's the average.it takes people 25 years to come forward?
That's not what I said. Since the average is 25 years, comparative statistics are not reliable until you reach that kind of distance.so there have been no credible allegations of inappropriate behavior of public school teachers from 2005-2015?
I don't want the Catholic Church not be able to operate in schools in Australia. I've spent a lot of time working in Catholic schools. Catholic education has done some fantastic work. What the church needs to do, to continue doing so, is to make itself open to scrutiny so the we know children are as safe as possible there. If it continues to refuse to do so, then it puts that in serious jeopardy.also, this is a forum for fellowship between and with Catholics
I do not go into the Anglican subforum and say "you guys should not be able to operate in the USA"
so saying that the Catholic Church should not be able to operate schools in Australia does not seem very "fellowship-y"
Secular authorities aren't trying to exert dominance over the Church.ofcourse I want everyone who was responsible for those kids getting hurt to face justice
I apologize if I said anything that caused people to doubt that was my belief
I just get upset when secular authorities take advantage of mistakes in from the past and try to exert dominance over the Church
Perhaps it needs to be said, for people from other countries:You have to remember as well that a Royal Commission has incredible powers BUT this is only a system for Countries in the Commonwealth . Is there a US equivalent ?
ofcourse I want everyone who was responsible for those kids getting hurt to face justice
I apologize if I said anything that caused people to doubt that was my belief
I just get upset when secular authorities take advantage of mistakes in from the past and try to exert dominance over the Church