Is American Exceptionalism a lie??

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Well, bucko, they were here a helluva lot longer than any of those mentioned. For that matter, so were the Vikings. Anyway, nothing is more American than the Native American Indians. God Bless America.

Who cares who was here longer? They were all included in the "etc".

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

The indigenous American indians were the victims of the grand sweep of history ordained by God, just like the Canaanites were when Israel took that 'promised' land by force. That white Europeans (led by second-class Englishmen) seized, occupied, and developed the New World is fulfillment of the Abrahamic promises that were passed down to a specific tribe of Israel: Manasseh (of Joseph). No other geo-political event in history can make this claim. This is what American exceptionalism is really about, GOP/conservative opinions notwithstanding.

Well, you got the "crackpot" part right...

 

[disciple2011]

We are exceptional, wait, let me rephrase that - We have been exceptional for the fact that we are a nation of immigrants, a nation of people from all backgrounds and nationalities. We are Irish, Italians, Russians, Africans, Chinese, Japanese, Jews, etc, etc. We were once a shining beacon on a hill, reaching out to the world with the words on a statue - "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door." Once upon a time we as a people who called ourselves Americans believed those words.

We have lost that exceptionalism though because we now feel we don't need anything or anyone the rest of the world has to offer.

We are not the only nation that was or is like that.

Most nations have been that are powerful and wealthy. Rome was a perfect example of how they took in all people, all lands and all religions.

The UK is a good example as well during and after its empire days.

So the US is not an exception, but following the rule of great nations.

Now it is waning just as Rome and the UK did. But it doesn't mean that we should just sit around and let atrophy set in. It means we have to find our niche in the world.

Find that and the US will be a great nation again. But it will not happen so long as people do not get a good education, have proper healthcare, a stable economy and a republic that listens to all its people and not a select elite group.

 

[disciple2011]

Agreed. In the whole course of human history, I don't think the United States is an once exceptional in almost any respect. Perhaps the Constitution itself is somewhat unique and "exceptional" to some degree, but I'm not a political scholar so I may be wrong on that. But it is the oldest and shortest constitution still being used and has generated some success...
Also, I think the US Presidential system is unique among similar systems.

No that is not exceptional either.

The government is an oligarchic republic. Most nations are that.

 

[TheReasoner]

We are not the only nation that was or is like that.

Most nations have been that are powerful and wealthy. Rome was a perfect example of how they took in all people, all lands and all religions.

The UK is a good example as well during and after its empire days.

So the US is not an exception, but following the rule of great nations.

Now it is waning just as Rome and the UK did. But it doesn't mean that we should just sit around and let atrophy set in. It means we have to find our niche in the world.

Find that and the US will be a great nation again. But it will not happen so long as people do not get a good education, have proper healthcare, a stable economy and a republic that listens to all its people and not a select elite group.

Sure. But don't forget that it wasn't all roses. When the Irish emigrated to the US during the famine the response was not all good. Just look up the Know Nothing movement and the American Party (1845-1860)

That said, you've got some excellent points, and I do agree. The US has spearheaded very much good in the world. Like so many before it, and no doubt many after, it has now entered into a 'down' phase. Hopefully the US will emerge better than before. Though in such phases the opposite can also occur. Still, I think you'll pull through. In time.

 

[disciple2011]

We were exceptional in our early history, when we knew where this blessed land came from. But like Mannaseh is wont to do, we forgot.

Our early history was not exceptional either.

We were a colony that broke away and kept some of the worst things that a nation could have like slavery, butchering local populations and keeping people from having equal rights.

No, just like most countries.

 

[disciple2011]

Well, bucko, they were here a helluva lot longer than any of those mentioned. For that matter, so were the Vikings. Anyway, nothing is more American than the Native American Indians. God Bless America.

You mean old time immigrants to the western hemisphere.

Look we are all immigrants from East Africa. The whole bloody planet.

 

[disciple2011]

The indigenous American indians were the victims of the grand sweep of history ordained by God, just like the Canaanites were when Israel took that 'promised' land by force. That white Europeans (led by second-class Englishmen) seized, occupied, and developed the New World is fulfillment of the Abrahamic promises that were passed down to a specific tribe of Israel: Manasseh (of Joseph). No other geo-political event in history can make this claim. This is what American exceptionalism is really about, GOP/conservative opinions notwithstanding.

YOUR KING COMMANDED you love your neighbour as yourself.

Those who do not follow a regents' commands are called what?

 

[TheReasoner]

YOUR KING COMMANDED you love your neighbour as yourself.

Those who do not follow a regents' commands are called what?

Traitors?

Not only that. There are bucketloads of similar commandments in there. It's been said that "Jesus puts the hippy stuff on pretty thick" and He does. Still, you find a LOT of Eric Cartman type people out there who say they're Christians.
They're one reason I do not have a cross by my name anymore. I am sick unto death of their hatred.

 

[disciple2011]

Not only that. There are bucketloads of similar commandments in there. It's been said that "Jesus puts the hippy stuff on pretty thick" and He does. Still, you find a LOT of Eric Cartman type people out there who say they're Christians.
They're one reason I do not have a cross by my name anymore. I am sick unto death of their hatred.

The issue is always that the person I ask the question of can never answer it. Because then they make public what they are before men.

A big no no to their King.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This is one of the most terrifying things I have ever read. I have no trouble believing that if you got it into your head that God had ordained a grand sweep of all the blacks, you'd be the first out on the streets with a rifle. I suppose we're all very lucky that your genocidal tendencies seem to be directed against people who lived several hundred years ago.

God has ordained a 'grand historical sweep' of most peoples; their prophetic destiny (for better or worse), and is directing the same. Wherever they are identified specific people are fulfilling their destinies.

A timely example is the Irish (Dan), who was to 'judge his people'. A prophetic destiny fulfilled completely in the last 150 years.

Whether or not we like or agree with it prophecy continues to be fulfilled.

 

[Cromulent]

God has ordained a 'grand historical sweep' of most peoples; their prophetic destiny (for better or worse), and is directing the same. Whenever they are identified specific people are fulfilling those destinies.

You would think an all-powerful being would be able to cherry pick the good and bad people without having to resort to racism and genocide. And even if he was feeling a little evil, I would have thought he'd do the murdering himself, instead of getting some expansionist empire to do it for him.

A timely example is the Irish, who were to 'judge among their people'. A prophetic destiny fulfilled completely in the 150 years.

Em... What? Where does the Bible mention Ireland? And how does this relate to what's going on today?

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Em... What? Where does the Bible mention Ireland? And how does this relate to what's going on today?

I believe the specific theology is called "British Israelism". Basically, each of the twelve tribes of Jacob (Israel) fit different groups of people alive today. In this case, oldwiseguy believes the Irish are the tribe of Dan and white Americans (or perhaps a specific group of white Americans) are the tribe of Mannaseh.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Em... What? Where does the Bible mention Ireland? And how does this relate to what's going on today?

The Irish are the descendants of the tribe of Dan, and tomorrow being St. Patty's Day makes my comments timely. That they govern (judge) themselves, even while under the umbrella of common state and national laws, is a phenomenon that is talked about whenever Irish-American history is discussed (as it is right now on many PBS stations). They even took over the priesthood of the Catholic churches in their communities so they would have Irish priests giving them instruction and communion. No other ethnic minority has so thoroughly taken over and entrenched themselves in the local power and government structures, for their own benefit and protection, as have the Irish in America.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I believe the specific theology is called "British Israelism". Basically, each of the twelve tribes of Jacob (Israel) fit different groups of people alive today. In this case, oldwiseguy believes the Irish are the tribe of Dan and white Americans (or perhaps a specific group of white Americans) are the tribe of Mannaseh.

Right on, except it's prophetic history, not theology.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Right on, except it's prophetic history, not theology.

It's still a theology

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's still a theology

Well, I guess it is found in the same book with the theology.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Well, I guess it is found in the same book with the theology.

I am curious about something. I've studied British Israelism a little bit but it was a long time ago. Who are all of the twelve tribes?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I am curious about something. I've studied British Israelism a little bit but it was a long time ago. Who are all of the twelve tribes?

I haven't kept up on it much myself either, but the principle nations are supposed to be:

Ephraim-Britain

Manasseh-America

Dan-the Irish (now concentrated in AmericaJ)

Judah-the Jews, wherever they are.

Zebulun-Holland/Belgium

Benjamin-Norway/Russia

Reuben-France

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. What is interesting about the prophecies is that the tribes don't have to become identifieable 'nations' to fulfill their prophecies, and they don't even have to live together in ethnic communities. So actually some of the lesser tribes may not be identifieable today, even to themselves. God simply says, "This is what your future is." Additionally, some may have fulfilled their prophetic destinies and 'disappeared' back into the world.

As a Zebulunite (on my father's side) I am really fascinated by the complete fulfillment of the endtime prophecies concerning that tribe. Less so with my Benjamite heritage (my mother was fully Norwegian).

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

I see. That's very interesting. Do you know what Zebulun and Benjamin's specific prophetic destinies are?