Understanding key differences: Christian conservatism vs. Christian nationalism

rambot

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Regardless of wether it's moral or not, the majority rules.
Well the tricky thing is that morals tend to arise out of cultures. So, different moralities can clash. But generally, there is sufficient overlap between culture for most of the important things.


It comes back to:
What is the alternative to democracy
 
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rambot

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"A republic, if you can keep it"

Sad to say, we can't.
A republic has the power in democratic representation behind it.

What good is a constitution if it's 250 years old? Society and its values change. You think if the US is still around in 700year the original constitution would still be a viable document?

The Magna Carta is PRETTY COOL; nobody argues that. Set the foot for democracy and all that stuff. But ultimately, it would still suck as a ruling document in today's day and age.

I'm not in agreement that a 3-500 year old document should have complete power over a very different population in terms of ethnic make up and the values of the society.
 
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RoBo1988

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What good is a constitution if it's 250 years old? Society and its values change. You think if the US is still around in 700year the original constitution would still be a viable document?
Which parts of the constitution would you do away with?

If those we sent to "represent" us adhered to it, then yes, it would still be viable.

But as it's said: it (the constitution) is for a moral and religious people, and incompatible with any other. We are to govern ourselves, not looking to the government for every jot and tiddle of their lives. Today's majority do not govern themselves.

You will probably get your wish - the constitution will end up memory holed.
 
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keith99

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Christian nationalism's support is strongest in rural, conservative states


In states including North Dakota, Mississippi, Alabama and West Virginia, half or nearly half of residents support the view that Christians should dominate all areas of American society, including its laws, according to a new survey about the influence of Christian nationalism by the Public Religion Research Institute, based on interviews with more than 22,000 people.

Nationally, about three in ten Americans believe, or at least sympathize with, ideas that claim the U.S. is a Christian nation and that the country's laws should draw from Christian values.
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For the survey's purposes, whether people were Christian Nationalist adherents or sympathizers (or skeptics or rejectors) depends on the extent that they agree with the following 5 points:

  • The U.S. government should declare America a Christian nation.
  • U.S. laws should be based on Christian values.
  • If the U.S. moves away from our Christian foundations, we will not have a country anymore.
  • Being Christian is an important part of being truly American.
  • God has called Christians to exercise dominion over all areas of American society.
It would seem they believe that their Christ's Kingdom IS of this world.

I think Christ disagrees.
 
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lifepsyop

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I don't think you know what the word "sacred" means. I think it is important.

Something sacred is something you treat with a sense of ultimate veneration, as an ultimate good for humanity. To lose the sacred thing would be to cast humanity into darkness, which is clearly how you feel about democracy.

What I'm saying isn't even controversial. Many people today, including the current POTUS, routinely use the phrase "Sacred Democracy"... Many people do in fact revere the spirit of democracy as something sacred... a Hegelian style "End of History"
 
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rambot

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Something sacred is something you treat with a sense of ultimate veneration, as an ultimate good for humanity. To lose the sacred thing would be to cast humanity into darkness, which is clearly how you feel about democracy.
I have watched you do a very poor job of responding to what I said an you've somehow creates tour own conclusion about me that is false (and also based on. A poor definition of sacred).


What I'm saying isn't even controversial. Many people today, including the current POTUS, routinely use the phrase "Sacred Democracy"... Many people do in fact revere the spirit of democracy as something sacred... a Hegelian style "End of History"
I am not many people.
 
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rambot

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Which parts of the constitution would you do away with?
Not saying I would do away with anything. Just dying I disagree with the idea.

A society should not be claimed forever to old ideas.

If those we sent to "represent" us adhered to it, then yes, it would still be viable.

But as it's said: it (the constitution) is for a moral and religious people, and incompatible with any other.
i think 3/5ths of black america may have a word.

We are to govern ourselves, not looking to the government for every jot and tiddle of their lives. Today's majority do not govern themselves.
they could if they were not filled with vindictive antagonists but your partymen are excited to vote that type.
You will probably get your wish - the constitution will end up memory holed.
 
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BCP1928

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It would seem they believe that their Christ's Kingdom IS of this world.

I think Christ disagrees.
Rural conservatives, mostly Christians, are being screwed over economically and socially. The only question is, who gets to do the screwing and who is going to get the blame for it.
 
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essentialsaltes

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In Superman's 'hometown,' a pastor vows to fight Satan's influence at the local library

Apocalyptic warnings of an "evil" assault are fueling a struggle for control of the public library in Metropolis, Illinois.

“Evil is moving and motivated,” Brian Anderson told his congregation at Eastland Life Church on the evening of Jan. 13. “And the church is asleep.”

But there was still time to fight back, Anderson said. He called on the God-fearing people of Metropolis to meet the enemy where Satan was planning his assault: at their town’s library.

[Anderson also sits on the city council, and the mayor is part of his congregation.]

The dispute has pitted the city’s mayor, a member of Eastland Life Church, against his own library board of trustees. It led to the abrupt dismissal of the library director, who accused the board of punishing her for her faith. And last month, it drew scrutiny from the state’s Democratic secretary of state, who said the events in Metropolis “should frighten and insult all Americans who believe in the freedom of speech and in our democracy.”

To counter this movement, Illinois Democrats last year adopted the first state law in the nation aimed at preventing book bans— which ended up feeding the unrest in Metropolis.

Unlike in comic books and the Bible, the fight in Metropolis doesn’t break along simple ideological lines. Virtually everyone on either side of the conflict identifies as a Christian, and most folks here vote Republican. The real divide is between residents who believe the public library should adhere to their personal religious convictions ['You might be a Christian nationalist if...'], and those who argue that it should instead reflect a wide range of ideas and identities.

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Glenn Coram, pastor of Immanuel Baptist Church in Metropolis, said he also opposed efforts to portray the library as a site of spiritual warfare.

“They’re seeing their mission,” Coram said, “as establishing the kingdom of God in Metropolis through the government.” ['You might be a Christian nationalist if...']

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Baxter, the embattled library director, appeared alongside Anderson and another local pastor on the “Greg Dunker Show,” a local conservative talk radio program.

Baxter defended her decision to donate or sell thousands of books, which she said she did to make room for additional children’s programming. Those removals, she said, were not “an attempt to pull any specific thing.” [Although the result is there are now 8 children's bibles and 1 book on Halloween.]

“God said he did not give us a spirit of fear,” Baxter said, alluding to the scary themes sometimes found in Halloween books. “Why would I want to instill that on anyone?”

Baxter also elaborated on her refusal to apply for state grants. She had chosen instead, she said, to rely on God to provide.

“We don’t need to live by the regulations and the rules of this state,” Baxter said. “We are here to serve and to honor God.” ['You might be a Christian nationalist if...']

A week later, the board went into a closed session and presented Baxter with an ultimatum: If she wanted to keep her job, she needed to sign a performance improvement plan. It stipulated that she would abide by the Library Bill of Rights, seek state grant funding and discontinue praying aloud with children and other religious activities at the library. [She refused to sign it and was removed. The mayor then targetted three board members who voted for her removal. The city council chose not to remove them.]

[One board member] lies awake some nights, worried about what her critics might do to harm her or her family if they truly came to view her as a tool of Satan out to “kill” children. She thinks about the phrase etched in stone at the foot of the Superman statue in the center of town — Truth, Justice, The American Way — and wonders if some of her neighbors have lost sight of what those words really mean.
 
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