Is American Exceptionalism a lie??

[Ana the Ist]

FIrst off, let me say that I'm a US citizen, born and raised, and I love this country. Here's my problem though, I'm being lied to. I hear constantly from the right, sometimes media...sometimes politicians...that the US is the best nation in the world. By what standard though? It's not education, healthcare, even really wealth. We have an enormous crime problem, serious economic problems...and social problems (example: teen pregnancy rates). I've heard that we're the leading nation when it comes to "freedom" but that makes it sound like other modern nations are enslaving their population...but Im not buying it. We don't even have the highest standard of living. I think sometimes this lie is used as a chest-thumping moment where politicians try to out-patriot each other. Other times I think this myth is passed along so the ignorant of this nation don't look to other nations for answers that might upset the status quo. Does anyone else hear this idea of American exceptionalism being shouted around a lot? If so...what do you think?

 

[Suomipoika]

I've heard that we're the leading nation when it comes to "freedom" but that makes it sound like other modern nations are enslaving their population...but Im not buying it.

In political discussion, "freedom" only means something if you specify "whose freedom, to do what, and from what obstacle". But that would no longer make a nice slogan or catchphrase to throw around to entice the emotions of ignorant people. Hence you mostly hear the simplistic and populist "freedom" without qualifiers used in American political rhetoric.

 

[Leere]

It is. The reason why so many people love to claim it as truth is because (aside from getting votes) of our social memory. We have a collective history that we like to believe in, most of it not really true at all. We've been raised to believe, in large part because of politics perhaps, that the United States set itself apart from its conception and is still leading the world on some path of democracy and freedom. Besides money and military, we aren't really leading the world in anything. There really isn't anything exceptional about the United States, unless you want to count how exceptionally far behind we are compared to the rest of the developed world.
Plenty of right wingers and/or nationalists will try to tell you otherwise. A good grasp of our history (which they do not have) should dispel that myth pretty quickly.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It is. The reason why so many people love to claim it as truth is because (aside from getting votes) of our social memory. We have a collective history that we like to believe in, most of it not really true at all. We've been raised to believe, in large part because of politics perhaps, that the United States set itself apart from its conception and is still leading the world on some path of democracy and freedom. Besides money and military, we aren't really leading the world in anything. There really isn't anything exceptional about the United States, unless you want to count how exceptionally far behind we are compared to the rest of the developed world.
Plenty of right wingers and/or nationalists will try to tell you otherwise. A good grasp of our history (which they do not have) should dispel that myth pretty quickly.

You know what happens as soon as It's said though, the speaker is accused of being anti-American, liberal, or worse. It's almost as if everyone is avoiding an honest discussion about ways to make things better. My favorite excuse for not adopting another nation's economic structure, "it won't work here because our economy is so much larger" is another statement that just gets accepted without challenge.

 

[Leere]

You know what happens as soon as It's said though, the speaker is accused of being anti-American, liberal, or worse. It's almost as if everyone is avoiding an honest discussion about ways to make things better. My favorite excuse for not adopting another nation's economic structure, "it won't work here because our economy is so much larger" is another statement that just gets accepted without challenge.

Unfortunately that's all pretty true. Even the way you worded it kind of hits the spot: to some, you can't even be an American if you don't follow their line of belief, regardless of how wrong they are. Worse than a liberal is a socialist, and a European Socialist at that!

There is simply no basis for much of it. Social memory can be a very powerful thing. It can be ridiculous sometimes, and I'm sure I'll be called something if this thread lasts long enough.

 

[HakeemSupreme]

Higher education and science and technology research are probably up there as the best.

 

[Suomipoika]

You know what happens as soon as It's said though, the speaker is accused of being anti-American, liberal, or worse. It's almost as if everyone is avoiding an honest discussion about ways to make things better.

This is one of the things where the USA still leads - it's the most propaganda-saturated nation of all the western world.

 

[Wayte]

Of course it's a lie. The only ones who cling to it are those who can't handle the direction society is headed, and are trying to convince themselves that America is going to just ignore all those changes and remain an extreme conservative foothold in the world.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Of course it's a lie. The only ones who cling to it are those who can't handle the direction society is headed, and are trying to convince themselves that America is going to just ignore all those changes and remain an extreme conservative foothold in the world.

I'd like to think that those who belIeve it are in the minority, but I think Its more likely that most believe this stuff. THat's part of why when someone in the media starts shouting "America is the best!", rarely is a voice raised to challenge them.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

America was once a brilliant shining light in the pages of world history. Like all civilizations, she eventually spent herself out, not exceptional in this regard. America the best nation on earth? I wouldn't say its a lie, arguably it's a bit outdated, but then again, what is the best nation on earth?

 

[Blackwater Babe]

Is American Exceptionalism a lie??

Yes.

 

[Ana the Ist]

America was once a brilliant shining light in the pages of world history. Like all civilizations, she eventually spent herself out, not exceptional in this regard. America the best nation on earth? I wouldn't say its a lie, arguably it's a bit outdated, but then again, what is the best nation on earth?

I think that depends on what measure of greatness you're going by....the problem is that the US doesn't show up as 1st on any of them. Indeed, it actually shows up much further down the list by most standards of measurement than you would imagine. The only one I can think of is charity-the US gives more to third world nations than any other nation. I haven't checked the truth of this and I could be wrong, especially if you weigh this charity against how much we exploit these nations. Still, I hardly think charity is what is in the minds of those touting American exceptionalism.

 

[stamperben]

We are exceptional, wait, let me rephrase that - We have been exceptional for the fact that we are a nation of immigrants, a nation of people from all backgrounds and nationalities. We are Irish, Italians, Russians, Africans, Chinese, Japanese, Jews, etc, etc. We were once a shining beacon on a hill, reaching out to the world with the words on a statue - "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door." Once upon a time we as a people who called ourselves Americans believed those words.

We have lost that exceptionalism though because we now feel we don't need anything or anyone the rest of the world has to offer.

 

[Blackwater Babe]

We are exceptional, wait, let me rephrase that - We have been exceptional for the fact that we are a nation of immigrants, a nation of people from all backgrounds and nationalities. We are Irish, Italians, Russians, Africans, Chinese, Japanese, Jews, etc, etc. We were once a shining beacon on a hill, reaching out to the world with the words on a statue - "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door." Once upon a time we as a people who called ourselves Americans believed those words.

We have lost that exceptionalism though because we now feel we don't need anything or anyone the rest of the world has to offer.

Meh, what about Australia? Its immigration history is almost identicle to America's.

 

[Leere]

Meh, what about Australia? Its immigration history is almost identicle to America's.

Agreed. In the whole course of human history, I don't think the United States is an once exceptional in almost any respect. Perhaps the Constitution itself is somewhat unique and "exceptional" to some degree, but I'm not a political scholar so I may be wrong on that. But it is the oldest and shortest constitution still being used and has generated some success...
Also, I think the US Presidential system is unique among similar systems.

 

[David Jerome]

FIrst off, let me say that I'm a US citizen, born and raised, and I love this country. Here's my problem though, I'm being lied to. I hear constantly from the right, sometimes media...sometimes politicians...that the US is the best nation in the world. By what standard though? It's not education, healthcare, even really wealth.

I think the U.S. is one of the best, when you factor all of those in, rather than look at just one. This would also include milatary might, not just standard of living.

The problem is that the U.S. is on a decline; but we're falling from such a height, that we're still on top. However, whether we're truly number one or not, at the rate we're falling, very soon (and I mean VERY soon) it won't even be debatable as to whether or not we're one one of the best nations. It'll be an obvious no.

But right now, it's still the place to be.

 

[keith99]

Meh, what about Australia? Its immigration history is almost identicle to America's.

Hardly. The U.S. early on had a large German population, so large that it was unclear just which side ther U.S. might take in WW I (and quite possibly what kept us out for so long). There is nothing matching the Black or Latino population of the U.S. in Australia.

But they did have an early pop of convicts shipped to 'the colonies'.

Very different immigration pattern.

Though to be honest the patterns for Oz fit the myth of American immigration at least as well as teh facts of American immigration fit the myth. In my opinion Oz fits a bit better. In several places Oz fits American myth better than we do. (Sports and having feared soldiers in WW II come to mind).

 

[keith99]

My opinion on U.S. exceptionalism depends a lot on the tone.

The U.S. has produced great athletes, scientists, scholars and humanitarians. It has many great scenic wonders, some unmatched in the rest of the world. In some respects we have more freedom than anywhere else.

Defined in terms of thigns we value we can legitimatly be called the best.

Using the vary same measure, save in terms of what that country values, I'm confident in saying Germany, Austrailia and New Zealand all can just as legitimatly say they are the best. (There are other countries I think could make the same claim, it is just I am not familiar enough with them to be confident. I exclude others because of my ignorance, especially the Nordic countries where I know enough to strongly suspect they can support a similar claim).

I do not know of any other country that match the redwoods in California. AS A group I do not know of any that can match Yellowstone, Yosemite and The Grand Canyon.

Perhaps none that can match everything in Yellowstone. But I know each and every individual thing in Yellowstone is matched elsewhere. I do not know of anything in the U.S. that matches Ayers Rock or Milford Sound. And for me any of dozens of glowworm caves in New Zealand are a wonder not to be found in the U.S.

The U.S. can claim athletic superiority beased on totals, per capity Germany beats us and Oz and New Zealand are so far ahead of us it is not funny.

Yea, I'll call the U.S. best, it is home and perhaps I know more of out wonders. But I will not deny those who can make similar claims for their home and I will not make my claim in a way that denegrates that which is good and wonderful elsewhere.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think the U.S. is one of the best, when you factor all of those in, rather than look at just one. This would also include milatary might, not just standard of living.

The problem is that the U.S. is on a decline; but we're falling from such a height, that we're still on top. However, whether we're truly number one or not, at the rate we're falling, very soon (and I mean VERY soon) it won't even be debatable as to whether or not we're one one of the best nations. It'll be an obvious no.

But right now, it's still the place to be.

ACtually, there are some nations which consistently place in the top 10 worldwide no matter which factor you're measuring by. Could be education, economic freedom, healthcare, standard of living, average income etc. I would refrain from adding military might since I don't think that is what makes a nation great. Would north Korea be considered a great nation? HOw about ww2 Germany? If we are on the decline, its from the middle of the field, not the top.

 

[IAmCatwoman]

Logically, it's not. It's just blind patriotism that makes us believe the U.S. is the best country ever. It's hard to define freedom, but if you turn it into numbers we're not even in the top five in economic freedom (the top is Hong Kong), and while there doesn't exist a LIST detailing social and civil freedoms, there is a ranking system, 1 being the most freedoms. The United States is on that list, but so are many many other countries. The most one could say is we're just as free as a good portion of industrialized countries.

But does that mean the U.S. has LOST freedom? Or that means we shouldn't be proud of it? No. I think people tend to get the feeling that the U.S. is losing freedom just because we're not longer "#1" when the reality is we've progressed, just not as quickly as other countries, in the past few years. And that is mostly because we didn't have to progress as far. The U.S. hasn't lost any freedom, despite the scare tactics of some people to insist "WE'RE BECOMING LESS FREE! Unless you vote for my candidate we are DOOMED!" And it certainly doesn't mean we should be less proud - why this obsession with being THE BEST. A country is only as good as the people in it, and the reason Europe has a tendency to laugh at our patriotism is because we become so obsessed with this idea of being the best we essentially destroy out likability by being insane about our patriotism.