Is American Exceptionalism a lie??

[David Jerome]

ACtually, there are some nations which consistently place in the top 10 worldwide no matter which factor you're measuring by. Could be education, economic freedom, healthcare, standard of living, average income etc. I would refrain from adding military might since I don't think that is what makes a nation great. Would north Korea be considered a great nation? HOw about ww2 Germany? If we are on the decline, its from the middle of the field, not the top.

I said a combinination of greatness in the factors mentioned in what you quoted from, makes a nation greatness...not just one factor like military might.

 

[stiggywiggy]

ex.cep.tion.al: (adj) uncommon; not typical

I doubt many historical scholars, whether from the right or left, would agree with the assessment here that America is a typical nation.

We know that a prophet is not without honor, save in his own hometown. Somehow there seems to be a parallel here.

Personally, I think America is a modern day Babylon, and will ultimately suffer the same fate as Nebuchadnezzar's nation. But there is a repulsive glee from some about our downfall that I also find quite exceptional.

I love this place; every purple mountain majesty and every fruited plain. Am I blind to it's faults? Does my love for my dysfunctional alcoholic Dad (a truly exceptional man) mean I turn a blind eye to his drinking?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

We were exceptional in our early history, when we knew where this blessed land came from. But like Mannaseh is wont to do, we forgot.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Depends on what we're referring to.

The idea of American Exceptionalism that almost all of the GOP/religious right hold to is most definitely a lie, and entirely ridiculous at that.

But the idea that America is exceptional is true, I would say. Not so much in recent years, with how we've declined morally, philosophically, economically, and liberty(ically ).

 

[Ana the Ist]

Depends on what we're referring to.

The idea of American Exceptionalism that almost all of the GOP/religious right hold to is most definitely a lie, and entirely ridiculous at that.

But the idea that America is exceptional is true, I would say. Not so much in recent years, with how we've declined morally, philosophically, economically, and liberty(ically ).

I don't really buy it. I don't see what makes the U. S. Exceptional nor do I see this "decline" that so many speak of.

 

[HakeemSupreme]

We were exceptional in our early history, when we knew where this blessed land came from. But like Mannaseh is wont to do, we forgot.

Pretty sure there was a genocide in the early history...

 

[apache1]

We are exceptional, wait, let me rephrase that - We have been exceptional for the fact that we are a nation of immigrants, a nation of people from all backgrounds and nationalities. We are Irish, Italians, Russians, Africans, Chinese, Japanese, Jews, etc, etc. We were once a shining beacon on a hill, reaching out to the world with the words on a statue - "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door." Once upon a time we as a people who called ourselves Americans believed those words.

We have lost that exceptionalism though because we now feel we don't need anything or anyone the rest of the world has to offer.

Seems like one group was left out ... the American Indians.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Seems like one group was left out ... the American Indians.

"We are Irish, Italians, Russians, Africans, Chinese, Japanese, Jews, etc, etc."

Nope, they are included.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

I don't really buy it. I don't see what makes the U. S. Exceptional nor do I see this "decline" that so many speak of.

A lot of countries are exceptional. America is one of them.

As for the decline...really? You haven't seen us particularly more inclined toward Imperialism and warmongering in the last thirty years? Or how about the crappy state of our economy? More willingness toward torture and unlawful detainment?

How about the fact that in February of 2011, our wonderful President personally called then-President of Yemen Ali Abdullah Saleh and had him reverse his decision to pardon Yemeni journalist Abdulelah Haider Shaye, whose only crime was doing his job?

If you had told someone pre-Johnson that a President was doing that kind of thing, they'd look at you like you were crazy.

 

[HakeemSupreme]

"We are Irish, Italians, Russians, Africans, Chinese, Japanese, Jews, etc, etc."

Nope, they are included.

lol.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

I mean, really. If we want to be like that, anyone that lives in America that isn't Irish, Italian, Russian, African, Chinese, Japanese, or Jewish could post their own little "wahhh, you fuhgot me!" posts.

 

[HakeemSupreme]

I mean, really. If we want to be like that, anyone that lives in America that isn't Irish, Italian, Russian, African, Chinese, Japanese, or Jewish could post their own little "wahhh, you fuhgot me!" posts.

I know - those stupid (remaining) indigenous people.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

I know - those stupid (remaining) indigenous people.

I have a feeling you don't actually agree with what I said

 

[TheReasoner]

It has been said that many countries are exceptional in their own way. That's true, and the US is one such nation. But it is important to realize that the US has it's strengths and weaknesses. Most people I know who speak of American exceptionalism tend to neglect the bad sides and only focus on the good. Now, they might say they are exceptionalists, but I have problems distinguishing what they stand for and nationalism. In that respect I would say the US is not exceptional. It is not without it's flaws, it's not without it's dark stains. It's no longer world leading on many issues which the conservatives like to say they're the best on. Healthcare? Number 37. Freedom? Depending on the particular arena, but normally far from the freest. Equality (gender, racial etc.) far from the best. Charitability? Far down on the list. Science? Still very good, but not without problems and bumps in the proverbial road. Certain pseudoscientific views are gaining momentum, and the cost is often used as an argument against continued investment. Though I'd say science is both cheap and to a huge part wealth and job-creating. The US is still leading on many arenas within the different natural sciences, but it's falling behind on many too.

And it's important to realize that these things are also true. To focus on only the good or only the bad is not healthy. We need to realize and be able to analyze strengths and weaknesses both. Only then can we see where and how we need to direct our strategies for improving ourselves. Narcissism or excessive modesty can both be harmful and significantly hinder development.

 

[apache1]

I mean, really. If we want to be like that, anyone that lives in America that isn't Irish, Italian, Russian, African, Chinese, Japanese, or Jewish could post their own little "wahhh, you fuhgot me!" posts.

Well, bucko, they were here a helluva lot longer than any of those mentioned. For that matter, so were the Vikings. Anyway, nothing is more American than the Native American Indians. God Bless America.

 

[jayem]

The thing that most made the USA exceptional was its social mobility. People weren't constrained to the socioeconomic class in which they were born. It wasn't always easy, and there were still obstacles to overcome, but there was a better chance of improving one's station in life in the US than in almost any other developed nation. And even now--in what other first world country could the mixed-race son of an African exchange student be elected to the highest office in the land? I honestly don't think that could happen anywhere else. That's what makes America exceptional. And sadly, that's what we're losing. The institutions that makes social mobility possible--public education, affordable health care, fair treatment regardless of sex or race, and a minimum social safety net, are all under attck.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well, bucko, they were here a helluva lot longer than any of those mentioned. For that matter, so were the Vikings. Anyway, nothing is more American than the Native American Indians. God Bless America.

The indigenous American indians were the victims of the grand sweep of history ordained by God, just like the Canaanites were when Israel took that 'promised' land by force. That white Europeans (led by second-class Englishmen) seized, occupied, and developed the New World is fulfillment of the Abrahamic promises that were passed down to a specific tribe of Israel: Manasseh (of Joseph). No other geo-political event in history can make this claim. This is what American exceptionalism is really about, GOP/conservative opinions notwithstanding.

 

[HakeemSupreme]

God sure planned out his genocides.

 

[TheReasoner]

The indigenous American indians were the victims of the grand sweep of history ordained by God, just like the Canaanites were when Israel took that 'promised' land by force. That white Europeans (led by second-class Englishmen) seized, occupied, and developed the New World is fulfillment of the Abrahamic promises that were passed down to a specific tribe of Israel: Manasseh (of Joseph). No other geo-political event in history can make this claim. This is what American exceptionalism is really about, GOP/conservative opinions notwithstanding.

o_0

Okay.

Right.

I'm going to just pretend this was never said.

 

[Cromulent]

The indigenous American indians were the victims of the grand sweep of history ordained by God, just like the Canaanites were when Israel took that 'promised' land by force. That white Europeans (led by second-class Englishmen) seized, occupied, and developed the New World is fulfillment of the Abrahamic promises that were passed down to a specific tribe of Israel: Manasseh (of Joseph). No other geo-political event in history can make this claim. This is what American exceptionalism is really about, GOP/conservative opinions notwithstanding.

This is one of the most terrifying things I have ever read. I have no trouble believing that if you got it into your head that God had ordained a grand sweep of all the blacks, you'd be the first out on the streets with a rifle. I suppose we're all very lucky that your genocidal tendencies seem to be directed against people who lived several hundred years ago.




As for American Exceptionalism, I think there was a time when America was the best place in the world. I'm no expert on any time period, but for many periods after the fall of slavery, until after the Second World War, when the US was relatively peaceful and prosperous, and Europe was consumed by various wars, dictatorships, class oppression and struggle, and numerous other problems, I think I would have preferred to be in the US than anywhere else (although obviously there were plenty of areas that left a lot to be desired, race relations for one, prohibition for another).

However, I think since World War 2, the US has been overtaken as the greatest country in the world, at least in terms of general quality of life, and being a good place to live, by progressive democracies such as those in Western Europe, Australia and New Zealand. The lack of social mobility is, for me, the greatest factor in this, and in no other first world country that I can think of is the deck more stacked against the poor than in the US. I think if America is not careful, the problems with the disenfranchised underclass will grow and grow, and the USA could well be overtaken by countries more committed to the welfare of their citizens, such as Brazil.