Universalism

[timlamb]

Ah, but it's justice not revenge apparently. Which makes it thoroughly understandable

Doesn't matter that it is not scriptural.

 

[timlamb]

One more time for the sake of truth:

Just a note for those who struggle with finding this world so lovible and wondering why God would create something that would be lost.

When God created everything including man He called it "good" or "very good". But when Jesus walked the earth He said, 'None is good except God", what happened? The fall happened, and things were not how He made them nor were they good.

But we know it wasn't an accident on God's part because scripture teaches these thengs were known before the creation. What was also known was that God would enter time, come as a child and reviel Himself and then make the ultimate sacrifice. So God was prepared before He let man have the choice to sin, to give him the choice of forgiveness and the chance to return to what God intended.

Man is his own enemy. Satan didn't make Adam and Eve sin, he is merely an opportunist, and encourager of sin. Every thing or everyone that does not follow God is an enemy of God, and thus a hinderence to man ever reaching God. God has a genuine Agape Love for His creation want wants to restore it, and the book of revelation describes that restoration. But the same chapter that attempts to describe the amazing restored, or New Earth, exposes the painful truth that not all make it, because not all are willing to be restored. The rest of creation IS described as being purified by fire, God destroys creation by fire before rebuilding it. but the souls of those lost in sin are not destroyed but lost in the second death which is the Lake of Fire.

A strange little discussed fact is that Satan was on the earth before God created man. Satan was cast down to the earth before Adam and eve were in the garden. This curious thing seems to support the gap theory but that would go even further off topic. The point is, God put us on the earth WITH the tempter knowing we would try the same thing Satan tried, to become our own god's. Is the book of Job becoming more real? There would seem to be a real cosmic contest, the deal is, God (being God)is omniciant and Satan is not. God entered into this knowing how it would end and that He would would have what He valued, which is lovers of righteousness. If God would not force the angels to conform to Him why would He make us and do different. God finds something so valuable in us who chose Him that all heaven rejoices for ONE that is saved. That is what He values.

We are invited to become His Children, Agape'd for all eternity. Or we can refuse and God will let us go. You may wish to believe with all your heart that your frends and family believe, even in the last seconds of their lives, but don't hold God ransom to the belief that all will be save. He told us how the world would end and even gave us dimentions for the new one, but He said clear as light:
There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

Revelation 21:5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." 6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

This is not a prediction, it is truth and fact. Pray for friends, but look to God and don't be held back by doubting His character...HE WILL DO THE RIGHT THING!! And you will one day understand!

​

Originally Posted by timlamb http://www.christianforums.com/t7361615-post52432473/#post52432473
What does God desire of you? To walk humbly with your God, to LOVE mercy! Did it cross your mind that these things can only happen in a willing spirit.

 

[Rajni]

Becuz Universalism is heretical in denying Jesus' command to repent and be born again or die in your sins.

Just becuz those are facts that I stated, why ask why I
argue this topic? Why not? There's no reason it should limit
me any in witnessing for Christ in most any topics.

Hold it right there.

You're saying this in blatant disregard for what was shared with you earlier this very day in post #961 on this very thing.

If you want your witness for Christ to have any credibility whatsoever, and you wish to continue engaging on this particular topic, you really need to familiarize yourself with it (the topic, that is -- not your own pet theories about the topic).

.
​

 

[Tissue]

@Tim: If you didn't notice, I responded to that post.

 

[Nadiine]

Hold it right there.

You're saying this in blatant disregard for what was shared with you earlier this very day in post #961 on this very thing.

If you want your witness for Christ to have any credibility whatsoever, and you wish to continue engaging on this particular topic, you really need to familiarize yourself with it (the topic, that is -- not your own pet theories about the topic).

It would be a "pet theory" if I didn't have scripture proof that not
only refutes Universalism but also supports eternal condemnation -
at second best, it teaches people are destroyed for their
rejection of salvation.

AND where Universalism lacks sufficient support due to not even
teaching the doctrine clearly or plainly; and leaving it out of
the Revelation account where we're given the detail of the future
afterlife . . . not one mention there about these souls in Gehenna
repenting, getting saved and being released.

I have plenty of credibility thru scripture evidence

 

[timlamb]

Hold it right there.

You're saying this in blatant disregard for what was shared with you earlier this very day in post #961 on this very thing.

If you want your witness for Christ to have any credibility whatsoever, and you wish to continue engaging on this particular topic, you really need to familiarize yourself with it (the topic, that is -- not your own pet theories about the topic).

.​

Pull the log out of your own eye
"Jesus loves everyone you HATE!"
Rudeness!

 

[timlamb]

Wrong. I agree that things happen on Earth that are hardly what God would desire people to do. So I have listened. My argument is that God's ultimate goal in reconciling all will be achieved, which is what you claim cannot happen.



I'm sorry but thats garbage. It would be indescribably better not to be born at all than have a life that culminated in what you believe happens to those unsaved. I find it incredulous that you could possibly argue that. It's not that I'm not listening to you Tim. I'm disagreeing with you.



There was no real need to bring them up. It's the sin of unbelief that carts people off to hell apparently because every other sin has been covered. A murderer can be saved if they believe and repent correct? someone who hasn't killed etc can go to hell for unbelief even if their biggest crime was an unpaid parking fine

So everyone who doesn't believe is stubbornly, consciously and willingly choosing to reject God. Gottit.....



This is starting to become sort of mantra. Shall I do the same in return because you don't conform to my view? It's nothing more than a gimmick and is disingenuous at that.

And still they don't listen!

 

[Nadiine]

Nadiine pointed out that God's will is not done on earth. But you don't listen.

you know the problem is these 'pet theories' when they're
refuted by evidence just don't seem to matter....

it would certainly cause me to 2nd guess what I was
peddling if I had this level of biblical evidence and
sound refutation to the read-in doctrines that seem
to get dug up out of context.

For instance, they use Christ being "Saviour of the world"
to prove that all are saved....
yet Satan's called the 'god of this world'.... does that mean
he's the god of all of us as well?

These are simply factual positions and titles - not that every soul
is under that god or following that god or of that god/Saviour personally.

Jesus clearly told the Pharisees that they're father was the
devil - not His Father and defined who was of His Father due to
what they believed.
So there's a definite distinction going on.

Sometimes I just shake my head.

 

[timlamb]

@Tim: If you didn't notice, I responded to that post.

Incase you didn't notice, I didn't care.

And they still don't listen...

 

[Nadiine]

Gehenna was a garbage dump....

Revelation? Tell me, is the lake literal? If so how is death thrown in there? Is the lake metaphorical? In which case what is it? How much of Revelation do you read literally?

Why would the offer be there for those who are thirsty to drink?

Gehenna consistently burned day and night; smoldering .....

Quite a picture of what we know of Gehenna from specifics given
in Revelation as to smoke ascending constantly - and a place
of uncleanness (where sin is contained eternally so it won't
contaminate the new regenerated world Christ is restoring for
those who love Him and righteousness
(which they accepted while living and never see punishment
or their sins drudged up again becuz they are REMOVED by Christ's
blood prior to death).

If the sins of the lost are not paid for, how do they hope to pay
to remove their own sins by some time in the pokey?

I know of NO verses that tell me that lost souls "do some time"
for their sin and then get out.
I'd like to see some if you know of them.

Otherwise, sin is not removed, that's why there are 2 judgment
thrones -
the great white throne & a Bema seat - for 2 groups of people.

So where do they do some temporary time and then get back
out?

 

[Tissue]

Tissue, this was written with you in mind. I hope it helps.

This made me think you cared.

But if you don't, then I guess the issues I brought up are conceded?

 

[Fixation On God]

Atleast this picture isn't funny.

 

[timlamb]

you know the problem is these 'pet theories' when they're
refuted by evidence just don't seem to matter....

it would certainly cause me to 2nd guess what I was
peddling if I had this level of biblical evidence and
sound refutation to the read-in doctrines that seem
to get dug up out of context.

For instance, they use Christ being "Saviour of the world"
to prove that all are saved....
yet Satan's called the 'god of this world'.... does that mean
he's the god of all of us as well?

These are simply factual positions and titles - not that every soul
is under that god or following that god or of that god/Saviour personally.

Jesus clearly told the Pharisees that they're father was the
devil - not His Father and defined who was of His Father due to
what they believed.
So there's a definite distinction going on.

Sometimes I just shake my head.

I think we are supposed to get angry at false doctrine and lies, and I am.

I'll be gone a few days, that should put a smile on their faces, but it's just as well. We've talked philosophy, and theology and scripture and they don't listen.

They say if we give then hard facts and truth they will listen, but scripture isn't good enough, they still won't listen.

A lesson in prophecy, and they still don't listen.

They are blind claiming to see, and deaf claioming to hear. They think feeling spiritual is more important than being true to God's word.

There is nothing good here. If I stayed I would just repeat myself over and over and over and over and over and over....and still they would not listen.

God bless you Nadiine and you too 2 Kings

And for those in the fairy tale, God bless us every one!

 

[Nadiine]

I think we are supposed to get angry at false doctrine and lies, and I am.

I'll be gone a few days, that should put a smile on their faces, but it's just as well. We've talked philosophy, and theology and scripture and the don't listen.

The say if we give then hard facts and truth they will listen, but scripture isn't good enough, they still won't listen.

A lesson in prophecy, and they still don't listen.

They are blind claiming to see, and deaf claioming to hear. They think feeling spiritual is more important than being true to God's word.

There is nothing good here. If I stayed I would just repeat myself over and over and over and over and over and over....and still they would not listen.

God bless you Nadiine and you too 2 Kings

And for those in the fairy tale, God bless us every one!

Bye Tim!
God bless you too in all your service to the Lord.

 

[Nadiine]

by the way, I usually don't hang around long in these
threads either - not after the other hundreds of pages long
thread that went on and it all got the same result.

The good news is they haven't persuaded any of us with
their evidence either; it's just as much a burden for them
to help us "SEE" their doctrinal theories.... so far, nobody's
bailing ship with what was presented either

 

[Nadiine]

Is disagreement the equivalent to not listening for you? If you don't address any of the counter points then what is there to listen to? This is just one big cop out Tim....

you had plenty of reproof from me also, and 2 Kings & Banana -
unless you haven't read any of our posts?

 

[timlamb]

This made me think you cared.

But if you don't, then I guess the issues I brought up are conceded?

I conceeded nothing, how arrogant of you to think so. But it wouldn't matter...You do not listen.

 

[Nadiine]

Well anyways, I'm not sure why Universalists even care to witness
a doctrine like this?

Since we all get in anyways, what a waste of time that could
of been spent on important things . . .
Who cares then? lol

 

[Fixation On God]

by the way, I usually don't hang around long in these
threads either - not after the other hundreds of pages long
thread that went on and it all got the same result.

The good news is they haven't persuaded any of us with
their evidence either; it's just as much a burden for them
to help us "SEE" their doctrinal theories.... so far, nobody's
bailing ship with what was presented either

Wrong, I bailed ship to join Universalists as soon as I saw Red77's Panther Avatar

 

[Nadiine]

Wrong, I bailed ship to join Universalists as soon as I saw Red77's Panther Avatar

wow, who knew,


Hey, I'll tell you what, I'll put up a panther avatar for my side
and then you can decide which doctrine is truer.