Your View on Christian Morality

[talitha]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm asking for people's personal opinions. If you would like to share, please do.

I did. (cf post # 30)

 

[LogainTheConquer]

I did. (cf post # 30)

I'm a little confused by this post. I was refering to post 39 user aiki. Thanks for your opinion though.

 

[Key]

To start with, "Deserve" is not the correct word in this case, as none of us Deserves
Heaven.
I never liked this misconception that continually gets tossed out by people all the time using the word "Deserved".

Short of living an entirely sinless life, from birth to death, you won't ever deserve Heaven, and then, even if you DO live an entirely sinless live you will only be allowed
in.
So, removing your little stint about "deserved"

Um, ok.......I don't think that is [FONT=&quot]relevant. They are my questions for my benefit, i don't think you have to reword them.

[/FONT]Ahh but it is. The issue of what we get vs what we deserve vs what we pursue is a very hinging point when it comes to our salvation and afterlife, at least to me, and your question worded in it's original format was impossible for me to answer.

As for your salvation, I firmly believe that is between a person and God. God makes it very clear that he looks at the heart of the person not their words, but their Heart, their intention and desire.

So while I might witness a deathbed conversion, I have no idea if that person really was saved.

The next question would be, if they knew God was real, why did they wait till their deathbed?

It's kinda one of those things that has no place other than academia, which means it is really not worth anything to the reality of my life, and thus I leave it in the hands of God to deal with it.

 

[GodisGreat1]

I don't understand why people think belief is simply a choice.


So basically that would be a Yes for the first question and I think a Yes for the second question. Please correct me if i'm wrong on that assessment.

My answers are that both the murderer and the atheist deserve to burn in hell.

All people deserve to go to hell, including myself, because no one is sinless. However, if one repents of their sins and accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior, they are granted salvation from their sins and granted eternal life in Heaven. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, because He is the only one to live a sinless life. So Jesus sacrificed Himself so that all could live eternally in Heaven if they believe upon Him and repent.

 

[aiki]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm asking for people's personal opinions. If you would like to share, please do.

Sure! My opinion is that the most thoughtful and useful answers to your question are to be found in the links I gave you. I seriously doubt that most of the people who post here have any idea what the Euthyphro Dilemma is. Fewer still will be able to give you an answer that won't lead to being caught on the horns of the dilemma. Perhaps this was your hope...

Selah.

 

[LogainTheConquer]

Sure! My opinion is that the most thoughtful and useful answers to your question are to be found in the links I gave you. I seriously doubt that most of the people who post here have any idea what the Euthyphro Dilemma is. Fewer still will be able to give you an answer that won't lead to being caught on the horns of the dilemma. Perhaps this was your hope...

Selah.

I will take that as no comment then, as I asked for your opinion and not someone elses, especially if the other persons answer wasn't even addressed to my question regardless of how similar they maybe.


Ahh but it is. The issue of what we get vs what we deserve vs what we pursue is a very hinging point when it comes to our salvation and afterlife, at least to me, and your question worded in it's original format was impossible for me to answer.

Then ask me to clairify my question, not rewrite it in your own words and then answer it.

As for your salvation, I firmly believe that is between a person and God. God makes it very clear that he looks at the heart of the person not their words, but their Heart, their intention and desire.

I will take that are no comment then, as you're not making your own assessment, or do not want to share your assessment, of the situation.

So while I might witness a deathbed conversion, I have no idea if that person really was saved. Irrelevant. The importance is the situation, not what is physically possible.

The next question would be, if they knew God was real, why did they wait till their deathbed? Good question, but irrelevant. Could depend an many factors, the only importants to the question is that he did.

It's kinda one of those things that has no place other than academia, which means it is really not worth anything to the reality of my life, and thus I leave it in the hands of God to deal with it. If you feel that way the why did you comment?

 

[Key]

Ahh but it is. The issue of what we get vs what we deserve vs what we pursue is a very hinging point when it comes to our salvation and afterlife, at least to me, and your question worded in it's original format was impossible for me to answer.

Then ask me to clairify my question, not rewrite it in your own words and then answer it.

Even if I asked you clear your question up a hundred times would you know how? You would first need to understand the significance of "deserved" as Heaven and Hell go to be able to clear up the issue, which is why I reworded it, to remove that qualifier.

If you were intent upon keeping it in, then It becomes a Loaded question, and worthless as far as Questions of faith go.

If you had no issues with removing it, then what is your objection to how I reworded it?

So while I might witness a deathbed conversion, I have no idea if that person really was saved. Irrelevant. The importance is the situation, not what is physically possible.

But It does matter, if you are seeking to know about a religion or a way of life, as things that have no place in actuality are not worth bothering with.

Your next question might as well be "If you could flap your wings and fly would you eat eggs?"

Reality and the seriousness of the question needs to be put into consideration, if you are not willing to do that, why are you bothering asking questions?

It's kinda one of those things that has no place other than academia, which means it is really not worth anything to the reality of my life, and thus I leave it in the hands of God to deal with it.

If you feel that way the why did you comment?

To explain to you the issue that you are putting up. You might be under the delusion that your question is credible as far as Following Christ goes, or even understanding Christianity.

Allow me to assure you, it is not.

God Bless

 

[LogainTheConquer]

[FONT=&quot]Ahh but it is. The issue of what we get vs what we deserve vs what we pursue is a very hinging point when it comes to our salvation and afterlife, at least to me, and your question worded in it's original format was impossible for me to answer.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Then ask me to clarify my question, not rewrite it in your own words and then answer it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Even if I asked you clear your question up a hundred times would you know how? You would first need to understand the significance of "deserved" as Heaven and Hell go to be able to clear up the issue, which is why I reworded it, to remove that qualifier.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But again, had I used the words "humbly allowed" into heaven or any other phrase you wish to put in there, what significant does that have in the context of the question? How does it change its context? No one was confused by this, not even you, because in the end you were still able to answer the question without any clarification by me, so you knew what it was asking. No one else took issue with this; if it were bad word choice on my part then I apologize. You only needed to point that out. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

If you were intent upon keeping it in, then It becomes a Loaded question, and worthless as far as Questions of faith go.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And I still don't. So far all I see is the twisting of the word "deserve". And even given my thoughts on that I still didn't care, I could have changed it to a word that you would have found more appropriate. And NO, I had no intent of keeping it in, had you asked me to clarify I would have told you that. The nouns you use for the entities presented doesn't change the context. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
If you had no issues with removing it, then what is your objection to how I reworded it?
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
You missed the point. You clarified what the poster meant to the poster themself. It was presumptuous of you[/FONT][FONT=&quot].

So while I might witness a deathbed conversion, I have no idea if that person really was saved. Irrelevant. The importance is the situation, not what is physically possible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But It does matter, if you are seeking to know about a religion or a way of life, as things that have no place in actuality are not worth bothering with.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Why does it matter? You know the situation. Witnessing what's happening is irrelevant. You are not witnessing Gods judgement; you're deciding where you think they should go given a set of circumstances. Not Gods decision. If it's something you don't want to make a decision on then you are free not to comment. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Your next question might as well be "If you could flap your wings and fly would you eat eggs?"

[/FONT][FONT=&quot](Face Palm) Moving on.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Reality and the seriousness of the question needs to be put into consideration, if you are not willing to do that, why are you bothering asking questions?

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Let's be clear on what you're saying here. Did you mean, "the reality and seriousness of the situation being presented needs to be put into consideration."?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

It's kinda one of those things that has no place other than academia, which means it is really not worth anything to the reality of my life, and thus I leave it in the hands of God to deal with it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you feel that way the why did you comment?[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To explain to you the issue that you are putting up. You might be under the delusion that your question is credible as far as Following Christ goes, or even understanding Christianity. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You think I expected to understand Christianity with two questions? How do you know that was even what I was trying to understand? Why do you go on assuming my intentions?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Allow me to assure you, it is not. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]See here is the problem with your statement. I've made no premises or judgements in my statements and questions. I merely asked two questions that involved your opinion on a particular situation. So to say I'm delusional in my understanding of Christianity and that my questions are not creditable is unwarranted.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The thing is I haven't made any claims or assertions. I only ask two questions. Anything else I said was to keep people focus on what was being asked. Anyway, contrary to what you might believe, my intent wasn't to have a debate.
[/FONT]

 

[Key]

[FONT=&quot]But It does matter, if you are seeking to know about a religion or a way of life, as things that have no place in actuality are not worth bothering with.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Why does it matter? You know the situation. Witnessing what's happening is irrelevant. You are not witnessing Gods judgement; you're deciding where you think they should go given a set of circumstances. Not Gods decision. If it's something you don't want to make a decision on then you are free not to comment. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Ahhhhh and now we get to a good part. Finally.

You are asking MY opinion, as a person, not if it is just or right, or even moral. You are asking me, which means it has nothing to do with religion or Gods Judgment. But, this is where it becomes a loaded question, you are at this point asking me to pass judgment ON Gods Judgment.

Now, this is funny because we both know, by the vast answers given that Jesus makes it clear that any who come to him and seeking forgiveness will receive it. This is made pretty clear in the bible and pretty clear on these forums.

Knowing this, you are just tossing out pointless worthless hypothetical questions that have no validity in the reality of things with the idea or objective for you to try and make yourself look like "the victim" and the other guy "cheating the system"

My answer annoys you because I have made it clear that God will NOT allow his system to be cheated, even if I as a person could be duped and played, God will not be.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Just because you toss out questions that are purely academic does not mean they have worth, in what you are putting out, is a morality question, is this right or wrong.

Ergo: What your question really is.

"why would a good person go to hell" twisted with the idea that "why would an evil person go to Heaven"

The whole "Hitler in Heaven/Gandhi in Hell" argument.

Which is why I said:

Reality and the seriousness of the question needs to be put into consideration, if you are not willing to do that, why are you bothering asking questions?

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Let's be clear on what you're saying here. Did you mean, "the reality and seriousness of the situation being presented needs to be put into consideration."?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

The situation does not exist... it is a fantasy. That is why makes it a hypothetical, and the fact that your question is PURE fantasy is not being stressed enough.

But to coin a phrase: There are no Purely Hypothetical Questions.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Your next question might as well be "If you could flap your wings and fly would you eat eggs?"

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Face Palm) Moving on.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
In this context, it is the same as the question I posed.

"If you could flap your wings and fly would you eat eggs?"

For the people that feel egg eating is wrong, it is irrelevant if they could flap their wings and fly or not, it would not change their opinion on eating eggs. On the same hand, those that enjoyed eggs again not be affected by the ability to fly.

Making sense yet?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

It's kinda one of those things that has no place other than academia, which means it is really not worth anything to the reality of my life, and thus I leave it in the hands of God to deal with it.

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If you feel that way the why did you comment?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]To explain to you the issue that you are putting up. You might be under the delusion that your question is credible as far as Following Christ goes, or even understanding Christianity. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You think I expected to understand Christianity with two questions? How do you know that was even what I was trying to understand? Why do you go on assuming my intentions?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Because; I have heard it all before many times, Almost word for word.

Allow me to assure you, it is not. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]See here is the problem with your statement. I've made no premises or judgements in my statements and questions. I merely asked two questions that involved your opinion on a particular situation. So to say I'm delusional in my understanding of Christianity and that my questions are not creditable is unwarranted.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The thing is I haven't made any claims or assertions. I only ask two questions. Anything else I said was to keep people focus on what was being asked. Anyway, contrary to what you might believe, my intent wasn't to have a debate.
[/FONT]

Allow me then to provide you the final answers to your little question of;

"Hitler in Heaven vs Gandhi in Hell" dilemma.

If I say Yes you deserve to go to Hell: then I am a cruel heartless sadistic person with a desire to see you suffer (IE: I am Evil)

If I say No, you don't deserve to go to Hell: Then God is wrong.

Where the other guy ends up, is equally so irrelevant.

If I say Yes "They" deserve to go to Heaven: Then I perpetuating a free licensee to Sin and there is no point in believing in God till your death bed where you convert to save your soul (IE: Evil is Good)

If I say No, "They" don't deserve to go to Heaven: Then God is wrong.

If I say, God will make a Good Judgment, and be fair and Just: it drives you nuts and you won't accept it, because it bypasses your little trap.

Any other questions you have?

 

[Singermom]

Key:

 

[seashale76]

I post this a lot :

I'm swiping this from here http://www.christianforums.com/t2642...ox-church.html as it says it better than I could:

The Orthodox teaching is that Heaven and Hell are the same "place" , standing in front of God. The Judgment is individual perception, determined by one's relationship to God. This perception will determine whether or not one experiences it as paradise (Heaven) or agony (Hell) eternally.

Here is a quote from an old Wikipedia article on the topic (that doesn’t seem to be around anymore) that I thought explained it pretty well: "For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

 

[oi_antz]

Logan, when you post loaded questions like this it must reinforce your belief that Christians hate atheists more than murderers. The Christians will always argue though that all sin is equal, so the thorn in your side is pride (thinking you know better than God), whereas the thorn in the murderers side is guilt (to have been so selfish). I can't suggest that these are equal weights to bear but from what I've learned about God is that He detests a proud human. We only live to be 80 years old and our beliefs run haywire consistently throughout our lives. The cheek of a human to say "There is no God" must be absolutely fascinating to Him! I'm glad for everyone's sake that God has a sense of humor because we've all learned some worldly beliefs at some stage and your soul isn't set to it's everlasting state just yet.

Personally Logan, I think Athiests deserve to be saved by the grace of Jesus Christ, because that was the offer Jesus made. However, for every word written which states a blasphemy of the truth, God will convict. Jesus tells us we must all give account of every careless word we have spoken. That means if you're going to have an opinion about someone's relationship with God, best be careful not to lead anyone astray. "For it is better to have a millstone tied around your neck and cast into the sea than to cause one of His little ones to stumble."