Your View on Christian Morality

[mulimulix]

I was chatting with a (my only) Christian friend the other day about various things to do with Christianity and I asked thing in particular like "If I committed murder, or even genocide for that matter, but sincerely and graciously asked for God's forgiveness, would I get it?" And her answer was yes under the condition that you truly meant it. I then pointed out that for the sole reason that I am an atheist, I cannot be forgiven. According to this, Atheism is a worse crime than murder or even genocide.

A few questions arise from this which I want to ask you, the Christian community:

1. Well, first of all, do you agree/accept this claim that you can be forgiven for murder/genocide, and if not, then why not?
2. If you agree with the claim, do you believe this is fair? why/why not?
3. From a neutral or Atheistic stand point, can you see why this could be very confronting? What I mean by this is that for someone like me (an atheist) I see this kind of thing as terribly immoral and unjust. It is one (of many) reasons I do not believe in Christianity

I look forward to hearing your answers

 

[Singermom]

The debate on "deathbed conversions" is endless, and I can definitely see the confusion. There is a lot in Christianity that may seem unfair, like when Jesus says that a person hating someone is the same as someone committing murder. However, ANYONE who sincerely repents of their crimes/sins/whathaveyou WILL be forgiven. The key word is "repent", which does NOT mean simply apologizing. My Bible dictionary defines repentance, in part, as "a profound change of mind involving the changing of the direction of life."

This is where faith comes in. Hebrews 11:1 says "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." We trust God to know what He's doing. We also accept that some things happen because God is...well...God. It's kind of like when a parent tells their child "Because I said so." Difference is, there has been so much proof - in the Bible and other sources - that back up His words.

It's just a matter of letting go of Self and going to God.

For the record, no PERSON can say who is or who isn't going to hell. God is the Judge; He chooses as He wills...because He says so.

 

[mulimulix]

For the record, no PERSON can say who is or who isn't going to hell. God is the Judge; He chooses as He wills...because He says so.

But according to the Bible, I am going to hell. It would make god a liar if I didn't

 

[Key]

I was chatting with a (my only) Christian friend the other day about various things to do with Christianity and I asked thing in particular like "If I committed murder, or even genocide for that matter, but sincerely and graciously asked for God's forgiveness, would I get it?" And her answer was yes under the condition that you truly meant it. I then pointed out that for the sole reason that I am an atheist, I cannot be forgiven. According to this, Atheism is a worse crime than murder or even genocide.

A few questions arise from this which I want to ask you, the Christian community:

1. Well, first of all, do you agree/accept this claim that you can be forgiven for murder/genocide, and if not, then why not?

Yes. All sins are forgiven though Christ.

2. If you agree with the claim, do you believe this is fair? why/why not?

Fair by who's standard? Mine? Yours? Gods?

If you do not believe in God, then you can not be forgiven a single sin no matter how large or small. Thus is it not the crimes you commit, but your unwillingness to seek repentance for them.

God has also made it clear that sin (any sin) will not abide in his presence, this means that nothing, from a white lie to genocide, will dwell among him and those around him. You must be sinless to enter Heaven.

Are you sinless?

If Not, then you can't enter Heaven.

Praise be to Jesus who has come down and shed his blood and flesh so that us mortals can become sinless to enter Heaven.

If you chose to refuse that sacrifice, just like if you choose to decline anything at all.

To use an example: You go to your Christain friends house and they offer you a plate and seat at their table to come join them and eat with them, but you refuse because you don't like what they are serving, or plan to go out to dinner later with your other friends, or just don't feel comfortable around the parents, etc. The motive are countless, but in the end, you refuse their offer. If you get hungry because you passed up that meal you have no one but yourself to blame.

If you then make a fuss about it, you come across as whiny and bitter if not outright annoying.

You complain that other people are eating while you are not because you have chosen not to eat. Think of how that sounds?

It was your choice to go hungry, it was your choice to refuse the food, it was your choice to any of that, if you see other people accept the offer, then that is their choice, but your reasoning is really just a case of bitter grapes.

3. From a neutral or Atheistic stand point, can you see why this could be very confronting? What I mean by this is that for someone like me (an atheist) I see this kind of thing as terribly immoral and unjust. It is one (of many) reasons I do not believe in Christianity

I look forward to hearing your answers

God came down, suffered the inequity of human vanity to provide you an open and enduring offer to enter Heaven.

By his blood Jesus gives forgiveness for all your sins, big and small, if you but ask and seek it.

All I see is you prancing around, saying God is not real or whatever chant of the day you have going on, and then have the audacity to be upset because someone else not only accepts God's divinity, humbles themselves before God and Christ and seeks forgiveness for their transgressions and receives it.

If you sought forgiveness you would receive it, if you don't seek it, you won't receive it.

The decision is yours, it does not get much fairer then that.

God giving you that decision however, is an act of divine benevolence.

Hope that gives you an answer to your question.

 

[Jakihe]

I was chatting with a (my only) Christian friend the other day about various things to do with Christianity and I asked thing in particular like "If I committed murder, or even genocide for that matter, but sincerely and graciously asked for God's forgiveness, would I get it?" And her answer was yes under the condition that you truly meant it. I then pointed out that for the sole reason that I am an atheist, I cannot be forgiven. According to this, Atheism is a worse crime than murder or even genocide.

A few questions arise from this which I want to ask you, the Christian community:

1. Well, first of all, do you agree/accept this claim that you can be forgiven for murder/genocide, and if not, then why not?
   
   
   In the end, God will judge according to His righteousness.
   Do I think this person would be forgiven? Not if He was a believer and premeditated this murder....then again, only God can decide.
   God will forgive, imo, a believer who makes wrong choices but I do wonder if one who has repented and accepted Christ would be forgiven of premeditated murder. What are the circumstances? Did this person literally lose his sanity or was he acting in hate and anger?
   
   An athiest worse than a murderer? I believe the Bible says there is no measure to sin. In other words, to God, all sin is against him.
   An athiest would have to first believe in God for his denial of the Holy Spirit to be counted as blasphemy, from what I understand, which the Bible says is the unforgivable sin. You are not a believer therefore your intention isn't to blaspheme something you don't think exists.
   
2. If you agree with the claim, do you believe this is fair? why/why not?
3. From a neutral or Atheistic stand point, can you see why this could be very confronting? What I mean by this is that for someone like me (an atheist) I see this kind of thing as terribly immoral and unjust. It is one (of many) reasons I do not believe in Christianity

I look forward to hearing your answers

Hope this helps at leat a little

 

[mulimulix]

[/LIST]
Yes. All sins are forgiven though Christ.



Fair by who's standard? Mine? Yours? Gods?

If you do not believe in God, then you can not be forgiven a single sin no matter how large or small. Thus is it not the crimes you commit, but your unwillingness to seek repentance for them.

God has also made it clear that sin (any sin) will not abide in his presence, this means that nothing, from a white lie to genocide, will dwell among him and those around him. You must be sinless to enter Heaven.

Are you sinless?

If Not, then you can't enter Heaven.

Praise be to Jesus who has come down and shed his blood and flesh so that us mortals can become sinless to enter Heaven.

If you chose to refuse that sacrifice, just like if you choose to decline anything at all.

To use an example: You go to your Christain friends house and they offer you a plate and seat at their table to come join them and eat with them, but you refuse because you don't like what they are serving, or plan to go out to dinner later with your other friends, or just don't feel comfortable around the parents, etc. The motive are countless, but in the end, you refuse their offer. If you get hungry because you passed up that meal you have no one but yourself to blame.

If you then make a fuss about it, you come across as whiny and bitter if not outright annoying.

You complain that other people are eating while you are not because you have chosen not to eat. Think of how that sounds?

It was your choice to go hungry, it was your choice to refuse the food, it was your choice to any of that, if you see other people accept the offer, then that is their choice, but your reasoning is really just a case of bitter grapes.



God came down, suffered the inequity of human vanity to provide you an open and enduring offer to enter Heaven.

By his blood Jesus gives forgiveness for all your sins, big and small, if you but ask and seek it.

All I see is you prancing around, saying God is not real or whatever chant of the day you have going on, and then have the audacity to be upset because someone else not only accepts God's divinity, humbles themselves before God and Christ and seeks forgiveness for their transgressions and receives it.

If you sought forgiveness you would receive it, if you don't seek it, you won't receive it.

The decision is yours, it does not get much fairer then that.

God giving you that decision however, is an act of divine benevolence.

Hope that gives you an answer to your question.

No, no, no. I am not jealous nor upset. I am just bamboozled and confused as to why people would think that murder is a lesser crime than not believing in god. But I do understand what you are saying that you wouldn't/can't ask for forgiveness if you do not believe in him anyway. But surely a more logical answer from god's perspective is to give atheists a chance to repent when they die? (Obviously I don't believe in heaven or hell, I am just making a hypothetical).

 

[Mr Dave]

A few questions arise from this which I want to ask you, the Christian community:


[*]Well, first of all, do you agree/accept this claim that you can be forgiven for murder/genocide, and if not, then why not?

Yes, you can be forgiven Acts 13:38 "Let it be known to you therefore, my brothers, that through [Jesus] forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you."

[*]If you agree with the claim, do you believe this is fair? why/why not?

I believe it is fair, not necessarily easy for those who have been victims, but fair for the God who so loves the world to show compassion to all, seen as all have fallen short. No-one is without sin, so we are all treated by the same measure.

[*]From a neutral or Atheistic stand point, can you see why this could be very confronting? What I mean by this is that for someone like me (an atheist) I see this kind of thing as terribly immoral and unjust. It is one (of many) reasons I do not believe in Christianity.

I can see why this could appear unjust, and has done since Jesus' day. In the Parable of the Workers in The Vineyard (Matt 20:1-16) God's grace and love is a deliberate challenge to conventional views of just reward.
For the deathbed conversion thing, the thief on the cross was promised to be with Jesus in paradise, and it is by God's grace though the man's faith that this is possible, and the same is true of all of us.

 

[razeontherock]

A few questions arise from this which I want to ask you, the Christian community:

1. 
   [1]Well, first of all, do you agree/accept this claim that you can be forgiven for murder/genocide, and if not, then why not?
   [2]If you agree with the claim, do you believe this is fair? why/why not?
   [3]From a neutral or Atheistic stand point, can you see why this could be very confronting? What I mean by this is that for someone like me (an atheist) I see this kind of thing as terribly immoral and unjust. It is one (of many) reasons I do not believe in Christianity

I look forward to hearing your answers

Let me address this in somewhat reverse order. First of all, we are told clearly that unbelievers ARE Judged on a different basis to begin with. Secondly, if you choose to feel your own judgment is "better" than that of the Almighty, you will be given the chance to express those thoughts. At a time when the sun itself won't "find room" to exist before His Presence. So good luck with that! (This phrase "finding room" is not something that words can really express anyway, so don't worry about it not particularly making sense.)

Your question that I re-labeled 2 for clarity deals solely with someone else being forgiven. You should be asking Jesus about this, and His only recorded response(s) to such a thing were, (in effect) that's none of your beeswax - you be sure to follow Me and worrying about things like that is more than enough to prevent you from ever doing that.

So by now you might realize that while your questions might seem reasonable, they're not really anything any of us can answer since ALL Judgment is given to Jesus. THIS is not fair at all - this is luxuriously merciful! He paid the price for sin, so to be finally and ultimately condemned by Him is the last straw. If you can't yet recognize the logic and sense of Justice in this, I urge you to pursue this further.

More directly to your question, our Apostle Paul was not only a murderer, but hell-bent on genocide - of Christians. There is a modern-era famous murderer who according to those involved w/ him are more than confident G-d received Him into His Kingdom, based on not only heartfelt repentance but actual conversion. I hesitate to drop a name as I'm not sure; maybe Jeffrey Dahmer? Someone on that scale of atrocity and infamy anyway. Not Charles Manson, who at least presents himself as the epitome of a non-repentant psychopath.

I'm surprised you haven't asked a much more "fair" question of, what does the Lord do in cases of the mentally ill, children, or possibly others that might act w/o really knowing what they do. Again, none of us sit that high to make such proclamations, and that is NOT what Christianity is about!

As a person gets to know Him, you realize He is perfectly Just and manages such things impeccably, not needing any interference from us.

 

[seashale76]

I've not read the other responses. There is, of course, the concept of repentance and forgiveness of sins in Christianity. For serious offenses, it does require a serious turn around. It is much more than lip service and assurance that you've a free ticket to heaven. There are numerous accounts of saints who had been the worst of sinners, only to leave their old life behind and take on a life of repentance and asceticism. In Orthodoxy, there is the view that even if one is truly sincere at their baptism, confession, etc. that it is not nearly a done thing to stop works, prayers for the dead (esp. the one you murdered), etc. Those who persevere to the end shall be saved. Quite different from what I see a lot of folks claiming these days.

There is also the concept of mercy versus justice. God is merciful. We pray for His mercy. If we prayed for justice, then there would be hope for NONE of us.

 

[Sketcher]

I was chatting with a (my only) Christian friend the other day about various things to do with Christianity and I asked thing in particular like "If I committed murder, or even genocide for that matter, but sincerely and graciously asked for God's forgiveness, would I get it?" And her answer was yes under the condition that you truly meant it. I then pointed out that for the sole reason that I am an atheist, I cannot be forgiven. According to this, Atheism is a worse crime than murder or even genocide.

I don't know what got you to that conclusion.

According to Christianity, all sin is bad enough. If you repent, you're forgiven. If you don't, you're not. If you're persistent in murder and genocide, and don't repent, you're not forgiven. If you're persistent in unbelief and blasphemy, you're not forgiven either. If you repent for any one of those, for that sin you will be forgiven. I'm not seeing "better" or "worse" here.

Well, first of all, do you agree/accept this claim that you can be forgiven for murder/genocide, and if not, then why not?

Yes, or else the Apostle Paul would be a crispy critter in Hell.

If you agree with the claim, do you believe this is fair? why/why not?

None of this is really about fairness when you think about it. It wasn't fair to Christ to die on the cross for our sins when he had committed no sins. Neither is it fair for a person to shove someone else out from in front of a car and to have brain damage for the rest of his life from the impact. But in both cases, they were the right things to do.

From a neutral or Atheistic stand point, can you see why this could be very confronting? What I mean by this is that for someone like me (an atheist) I see this kind of thing as terribly immoral and unjust. It is one (of many) reasons I do not believe in Christianity

So then, you find the mercy of God to be unjust. Would it also be fair to say that if you were to find out for a fact that there is a God, that you would reject his offer of mercy for you because he also offers his mercy to people worse than you? If so, what would that accomplish?

What I'm seeing with this argument is a disconnect from a popular secular objection to God based on the existence of Hell. If you're going to be so angry and upset and hateful towards those who commit murder and genocide (and to a degree, this is right), then I would hope that you would be a big fan of Hell. Unrepentant rapists and murderers are getting justice visited upon them in Hell as we speak. As we read about history's atrocities, the guilty are getting their due punishment in Hell. Nobody got away with raping the nuns during the Turkish conquest of Constantinople. They're all getting it back in Hell. Those who burned their children alive in sacrifice to Molech, they're getting it done back to them in Hell. Any and all dead Soviets who had a hand in the gulags or forced famines or systematic rape of German women who did not repent, are getting it all back upon them in Hell. In the US, we can't legally torture someone to death - but a bullet to the head or a seat in the chair will send an unrepentant torturer to Hell, where the professionals can really give him what he deserves. All without other people needing to sacrifice their humanity and commit more injustices in order to mete out justice.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

But according to the Bible, I am going to hell. It would make god a liar if I didn't

Unbelievers will die (twice),not live forever with Christ. Eternal life is for those God chooses and draws to Christ, not for any others. It is to the chosen that repentance is granted by God. Yup, God must ok your repentance or it doesn't mean anything. And further, God places his own mind and heart in his chosen so that they will repent of sin and evildoing. Without God's spirit no one can repent.Your death will be a "mercy killing" by God, who will not make you suffer eternally as a sinful unbeliever. The "wages of sin is death", not eternal life in torment, so don't worry about suffering forever. Regarding "fairness". Everything is weighted towards the sinner and the unbeliever 'here below' in this lifetime. The earth is a sensual place for you but not for us. We suffer now for a great reward later. You enjoy the pleasures of this 'present evil world' but will miss out on eternal life. Seems fair to me.

 

[ebia]

I was chatting with a (my only) Christian friend the other day about various things to do with Christianity and I asked thing in particular like "If I committed murder, or even genocide for that matter, but sincerely and graciously asked for God's forgiveness, would I get it?" And her answer was yes under the condition that you truly meant it. I then pointed out that for the sole reason that I am an atheist, I cannot be forgiven. According to this, Atheism is a worse crime than murder or even genocide.

A few questions arise from this which I want to ask you, the Christian community:

1. Well, first of all, do you agree/accept this claim that you can be forgiven for murder/genocide, and if not, then why not?
2. If you agree with the claim, do you believe this is fair? why/why not?
3. From a neutral or Atheistic stand point, can you see why this could be very confronting? What I mean by this is that for someone like me (an atheist) I see this kind of thing as terribly immoral and unjust. It is one (of many) reasons I do not believe in Christianity

I look forward to hearing your answers

You are forgiven. But reconcilliation is impossible if someone rejects it.

 

[Key]

No, no, no. I am not jealous nor upset. I am just bamboozled and confused as to why people would think that murder is a lesser crime than not believing in god.

If you are not repentant, do not seek forgiveness and do not turn from your sin, it matters not what you believe.

God made it clear, Sin will not Enter Heaven, any sin.

So, is it a greater sin to not believe? No, as if you repented and sought God and turned from your Sin, you would be forgiven and allowed into Heaven.

Think of it this way, a person who murders someone will go to Hell, unless they repent, seek forgiveness and turn from their sin. An atheist will go to Hell, unless they repent, seek forgivness and turn from their sin.

Is one greater then the other? No.

All Sin will be forgiven if you seek. If you do not seek (for whatever reason) then it will not be forgiven.

But I do understand what you are saying that you wouldn't/can't ask for forgiveness if you do not believe in him anyway.

Exactly! So, any sin you commit remains on you like a filth, a mark upon your soul, and such defilement will not enter Heaven.

But surely a more logical answer from god's perspective is to give atheists a chance to repent when they die? (Obviously I don't believe in heaven or hell, I am just making a hypothetical).

Why would that be logical, the door as it stands is open evenly to all. If there was after death conversions they too should be open to all, including the mass serial killer, why should an Atheist be given special treatment?

If you spent your life in denial of God, then that is what you did with it. If I spent half my life killing and the next half repenting, then that is what I did with it.

We each make our own decisions, our own choices, every sin you commit is your choice and your willingness to do. Just because it is lesser then another person, does not excuse you from needing to seek forgiveness for it, nor does it mean they should not be forgiven.

Hope that helps.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I was chatting with a (my only) Christian friend the other day about various things to do with Christianity and I asked thing in particular like "If I committed murder, or even genocide for that matter, but sincerely and graciously asked for God's forgiveness, would I get it?" And her answer was yes under the condition that you truly meant it. I then pointed out that for the sole reason that I am an atheist, I cannot be forgiven. According to this, Atheism is a worse crime than murder or even genocide.

A few questions arise from this which I want to ask you, the Christian community:

1. Well, first of all, do you agree/accept this claim that you can be forgiven for murder/genocide, and if not, then why not?
2. If you agree with the claim, do you believe this is fair? why/why not?
3. From a neutral or Atheistic stand point, can you see why this could be very confronting? What I mean by this is that for someone like me (an atheist) I see this kind of thing as terribly immoral and unjust. It is one (of many) reasons I do not believe in Christianity

I look forward to hearing your answers

There is no sin too great to forgive if the person is repentant. Killing another person is rarely black and white, there's pre-meditated and cold-blooded, fits in the heat of passion, rage episodes, murders done because it was "accepted" and the person thought it was right as part of a gang or group, murders through war, self-defense, accidental, delusionally induced, the list can continue here. Murder does not always equal evil and the chance that the person will never regret it, or that they will never kill again if they change their ways. So yes, why couldn't a person be forgiven?

Atheism is another case entirely. To not believe, seek, and accept God is the ultimate loss.

 

[mulimulix]

I don't know what got you to that conclusion.

According to Christianity, all sin is bad enough. If you repent, you're forgiven. If you don't, you're not. If you're persistent in murder and genocide, and don't repent, you're not forgiven. If you're persistent in unbelief and blasphemy, you're not forgiven either. If you repent for any one of those, for that sin you will be forgiven. I'm not seeing "better" or "worse" here.


Yes, or else the Apostle Paul would be a crispy critter in Hell.


None of this is really about fairness when you think about it. It wasn't fair to Christ to die on the cross for our sins when he had committed no sins. Neither is it fair for a person to shove someone else out from in front of a car and to have brain damage for the rest of his life from the impact. But in both cases, they were the right things to do.


So then, you find the mercy of God to be unjust. Would it also be fair to say that if you were to find out for a fact that there is a God, that you would reject his offer of mercy for you because he also offers his mercy to people worse than you? If so, what would that accomplish?

What I'm seeing with this argument is a disconnect from a popular secular objection to God based on the existence of Hell. If you're going to be so angry and upset and hateful towards those who commit murder and genocide (and to a degree, this is right), then I would hope that you would be a big fan of Hell. Unrepentant rapists and murderers are getting justice visited upon them in Hell as we speak. As we read about history's atrocities, the guilty are getting their due punishment in Hell. Nobody got away with raping the nuns during the Turkish conquest of Constantinople. They're all getting it back in Hell. Those who burned their children alive in sacrifice to Molech, they're getting it done back to them in Hell. Any and all dead Soviets who had a hand in the gulags or forced famines or systematic rape of German women who did not repent, are getting it all back upon them in Hell. In the US, we can't legally torture someone to death - but a bullet to the head or a seat in the chair will send an unrepentant torturer to Hell, where the professionals can really give him what he deserves. All without other people needing to sacrifice their humanity and commit more injustices in order to mete out justice.

Well I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If I die and see (any, but in this case the Christian) god, I will have a lot of questions to ask him. You ask if it would still be unjust if god really did exist, and I say yes! It is still unjust because it isn't my fault he hasn't revealed himself to me, it's his! And what about the other billions of people to whom he hasn't revealed himself.

Punishing or rewarding people infinitely for finite deeds is unjust, but when you do it to people who had no clue, it is beyond unjust...

 

[Sketcher]

Well I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If I die and see (any, but in this case the Christian) god, I will have a lot of questions to ask him. You ask if it would still be unjust if god really did exist, and I say yes! It is still unjust because it isn't my fault he hasn't revealed himself to me, it's his! And what about the other billions of people to whom he hasn't revealed himself.

Punishing or rewarding people infinitely for finite deeds is unjust, but when you do it to people who had no clue, it is beyond unjust...

You've heard of him and rejected him. You've made your choice, and your response is your responsibility. You haven't turned and embraced him, and therefore he doesn't have to let you into his house. It's that simple. If you change your mind, and change your heart, then he will.

 

[mulimulix]

You've heard of him and rejected him. You've made your choice, and your response is your responsibility. You haven't turned and embraced him, and therefore he doesn't have to let you into his house. It's that simple. If you change your mind, and change your heart, then he will.

Does this mean I have also heard and rejected Allah, Ganesh and Zeus?

 

[oi_antz]

Well I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If I die and see (any, but in this case the Christian) god, I will have a lot of questions to ask him. You ask if it would still be unjust if god really did exist, and I say yes! It is still unjust because it isn't my fault he hasn't revealed himself to me, it's his! And what about the other billions of people to whom he hasn't revealed himself.

Punishing or rewarding people infinitely for finite deeds is unjust, but when you do it to people who had no clue, it is beyond unjust...

Jesus is the Christian God you will see when you die, and you'll have already missed out on all the spiritual training you could have achieved while you had the bible and the body, I don't believe there is any more growth for those who aren't in Christ, however to say who is in Christ and who is not are judgments strictly between your self and Jesus.

As a human, our definitive talent is communication. This means that the power of word is one of the strongest devices we possess. Jesus came and brought the word of God to life for us, there is no other person who has made that claim, carried it to the cross and been raised by the hand of the father to rule his heavenly kingdom for 2,000 years. This is a miracle truly by the hand of God the creator.

Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?” Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words that give eternal life.”
John 6:67-68, NLT

So yes, every day as you pick away at us with all the questions you have about God, you're constantly choosing not to go straight to the source and ask God for yourself. One day you might just be able to do that, it would be prudent in the meantime to be sure you don't end up in a situation requiring repentance from murder, it could be harder than said.

 

[aiki]

I was chatting with a (my only) Christian friend the other day about various things to do with Christianity and I asked thing in particular like "If I committed murder, or even genocide for that matter, but sincerely and graciously asked for God's forgiveness, would I get it?" And her answer was yes under the condition that you truly meant it. I then pointed out that for the sole reason that I am an atheist, I cannot be forgiven. According to this, Atheism is a worse crime than murder or even genocide.

If you confess and repent of the sin of disbelief (aka - atheism), you will be forgiven of it just as you will if you confess and repent of the sin of murder. Sin is sin whether it is murder or prideful unbelief.

A few questions arise from this which I want to ask you, the Christian community:

1. Well, first of all, do you agree/accept this claim that you can be forgiven for murder/genocide, and if not, then why not?

Yes, God will forgive a genuinely repentant murderer.

If you agree with the claim, do you believe this is fair? why/why not?

The fact is, compared to God, we are all deserving of hell. The only reason some aren't going to go to hell is because they accepted God's merciful and gracious gift of salvation. Not one person will stand in heaven because they deserved to be there.The gossip who gets into heaven won't stand there and say, "I made it here because I was just a gossip, not a murderer, or a child-molester like so many of those in hell." The liar won't stand in heaven and crow about how he wasn't as bad as the rapist and that's why he's not in hell. No, every person in heaven will be on their knees bursting with thankfulness that God did not give them what they deserved but has instead granted them an eternity with Him.

From a neutral or Atheistic stand point, can you see why this could be very confronting? What I mean by this is that for someone like me (an atheist) I see this kind of thing as terribly immoral and unjust. It is one (of many) reasons I do not believe in Christianity

I don't understand your point of view at all. Why should God allow you to deny Him all your life and not judge you accordingly? And anyhow, on what basis do you decide what is and isn't moral? If God doesn't exist, your morality is nothing more than the imperatives of your genetics. You could just as easily have been born a termite in which case cannibalism and eating the feces of your fellow termites would seem perfectly "moral." Or you might have been born a lion and have no compunction at all about killing and eating the offspring of your reproductive competitors. This is just what lions do. Its all just a matter of blind, random, mechanical processes of nature, right? There is no God, so right and wrong are fundamentally nothing more than the dictates of your biology. So, where, for an atheist, does fair or moral come into, really?

Selah.

 

[98cwitr]

I was chatting with a (my only) Christian friend the other day about various things to do with Christianity and I asked thing in particular like "If I committed murder, or even genocide for that matter, but sincerely and graciously asked for God's forgiveness, would I get it?" And her answer was yes under the condition that you truly meant it. I then pointed out that for the sole reason that I am an atheist, I cannot be forgiven. According to this, Atheism is a worse crime than murder or even genocide.

A few questions arise from this which I want to ask you, the Christian community:

1. Well, first of all, do you agree/accept this claim that you can be forgiven for murder/genocide, and if not, then why not?
2. If you agree with the claim, do you believe this is fair? why/why not?
3. From a neutral or Atheistic stand point, can you see why this could be very confronting? What I mean by this is that for someone like me (an atheist) I see this kind of thing as terribly immoral and unjust. It is one (of many) reasons I do not believe in Christianity

I look forward to hearing your answers

1. Yes, Christ's blood is powerful enough to wash away all sins, except one
2. Yes, read the parable in Matthew 20:1-16
3. Yes, I was atheist/agnostic for 22 years of my life. When confronted with it I would explain how God could not be truly just, as the Bible would say He was, if He did not condemn people like that...then I read the parable and saw how wicked Saul was before he was called Paul by God, and how God transformed him into a righteous man.